tpryor

All,

I am one of those people who believe that the break-in period determines the life and reliability of an engine. Typically, I go a little overboard with a new engine - such as:

1. I will not accept delivery of a new car with more than 10 miles.

2. The oil gets changed at 100, 250, 500, 1000, and 2500 miles - then every 2500 thereafter - with a switch to synthetic at 7500 (Currently using Syntec 5w50 in my 10AE Miata).

3. ALL service intervals get cut in half

SO, having said all of that, I am trying to figure out (never having owned one) the proper (suggested, recommended, best) way to break in a new rotary engine.

I have found this on the Mazda Motorsports web page (http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...1&subject=misc):

New Rotary Engine w/New Bearings

1. Let idle for 45 minutes

2. Less than 5000 rpm for the next 60 miles (No heavy loads)

3. Less than 6000 rpm for the next 60 miles (Gradually increase rpm, but no redline)

4. Less than 7000 rpm for the next 60 miles

5. Less than 8000 rpm for the next 60 miles (Short burst approaching redline)

6. Less than 8500 rpm for the next 60 miles

7. Change to synthetic oil - break-in is complete.

Does this sound reasonable? I would appreciate all of the expert advice I can get - there is NO such thing as too much care for my new "baby".

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Pre-Owner
2004 Lightning Yellow 6-Speed
Sport Package

inittab

You're kid'n....... right?

How often do you change your synthetic?

Salo

Many new cars (Audi's for example) are shipped with what they call "break-in oil" and recommend changing the oil at 8000 miles.

inittab

synthetic oils also have a theoretical life of like a gazilion miles. But I change mine at 5k which is the mfr recommended oil change interval for my Audi. And yes, the 6 cyl Audi's have 8k recomended intervals.

tpryor

inittab posted:

You're kid'n....... right?

Nope.....

How often do you change your synthetic?

Oil and Filter at 2500 mile intervals.

inittab

tpryor - How many cars have you done this extreme oil change schedule with and what have been the results?

Hercules

Few things I'd like to point out here...

Don't use synthetic in a rotary. Not that it won't benefit you but since rotaries DRINK (read: burn) oil, it's probably not a good idea to go with the expensive stuff.

Next, my break in will consist of changing the oil at 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000. Every 3000 thereafter. That's just to ensure there's no metal pieces floating around in the oil pan.

As per the RPMs I'd recommend keeping it around 5-6k before hitting 1000 miles. Many cars recommend keeping the RPMs under 3-4k, but they also don't have a 9000RPM redline Since rotaries can theoretically spin to infinity (as their physics are better than a pounding piston), I don't see much of a big deal with the RPM breakin procedure though for the first 500 miles I will keep it at 6-7k and not hit redline. After those 500 I intend to hear that redline buzzer on a regular basis

tpryor

tpryor - How many cars have you done this extreme oil change schedule with and what have been the results?
==============================================
OK - the actual question is about how to properly break-in a rotary, but................

Since 1976, when I bought the first Honda Accord sold in North Carolina, the list is:

1976 Honda Accord - sold at 87,000 miles
1978 Honda Civic Si - sold at 103,000 miles
1980 Subaru - sold after 1 year (I turned out to not be a Subaru man)
1983 Honda Prelude - sold at 78,000 miles (my favorite front-wheel drive car)
1988 Acura Legend Coupe - sold at 76,000 miles
1991 Acura Integra - sold at 85,000 miles
1993 Acura Integra GS-R - sold at 65,000 miles
1997 Mazda Miata Sport - totaled (her fault) at 54,000 miles
1999 Mazda Miata 10AE - 46,500 miles and counting (my favorite car)
2001 Volvo S60 T5 - 36,000 miles and counting

Except for the Subaru (long story) and the Legend coupe (for an oxygen sensor) - not one car has been to a dealer for service. I change all the parts myself, even clutches, at 1/2 the recommended intervals in the service manual and follow the service procedures in order from the factory service manual.

All have been sold at the maximum listed value, and all have been autocrossed since the 1991 Integra (except for my wife's Volvo), and all were in perfect mechanical condition when they left my ownership.

I was into motorcycle racing for MANY years, and the value of changing the oil (on engine wear) became painfully obvious, so I thought I would continue on my street vehicles.

The only ACTUAL information I can give you is this - at 57,000 miles, the Prelude had the head removed (to fit side-draft Mikuni's) and you could still make out the cross-hatch on the cylinders, and there was NO sludge, carbon, or any other buildup in the head. Recently, the intake and head on the 10AE were removed for inspection - same results - the inside of the engine looks new.

It's cheap insurance to know for sure..............

I hope that's a reasonable explanation (even if a bit wordy).

Now, does anyone know how to break-in a rotary correctly?

Puppy1

I may be buying the wrong car. I let my 89 CRX go 50k miles twice between oil changes.

AND I SOLD IT WITH OVER 300k MILES ALL PUT ON BY MYSELF! NEVER OPENED UP THE ENGINE.

inittab

That is good advice! It's best to use an oil that burns clean, synthetics do not.

Digisan

Break-in

The website needs work though, LOL, but the info seems logical and he has prooved his recommendations.

I thought this link was pretty interesting, any thoughts?

Rob

Quick_lude

Changing synthetic oil at 2500 miles? If we are talking about a Group IV synth like Mobil1, Amsoil, Redline then you are wasting your money and resources. This has been proven by many used oil analysis on this great oil board : http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Also that initial oil change routine of 100, 250, 500, 1000, and 2500 miles shouldn't be followed imo.. Like mentioned above, vehicles come filled with break in oil, you should leave it in there for more than 100 miles..

TheOne

wheres the answer he asked what is hte "proper" break in procedure and only one member answered him...im also very curious in how do you break in a rotary engine...

TheOne

wheres the answers?? he asked what is hte "proper" break in procedure and only one member answered him...im also very curious in how do you break in a rotary engine...

wakeech

the same way you break in a piston engine: it's not magic. follow the user's manual and you'll do just fine... it'll basically say "don't rev the engine hard or go above X rpm for the first X number of miles, and get your oil changed at X, Y, and Z mile-markers"... it's not a complicated thing to do.

eccles

Well, back when I was driving my 13B-BP RX-3, the break-in after a rebuild was 4000rpm limit for the first 100km, 5000 for the next 100, then 6000 with an occasional burst to 7500 for the next 300km. Once it reached 500km total, drain and refill the oil and go for broke.

However, this was a race engine that was going to be torn down and rebuilt within a year or two. For the Renesis, I'll probably at least double those distances - 1000km (600 miles) of restraint isn't a big price to pay for engine longevity. Maybe I'll just take a drive out to Big Bend for the weekend.

wakeech

hey, you're a Texan who uses km's??? maybe you're that fabled metric American...

eccles

Heh. No, my previous rotaries were before I moved here from Down Under, hence the metrics. I really wish the US would make the switch, but I don't see it ever happening - there's too much inertia to overcome.

(OT: I'd also like to see a more usable paper currency instead of the ridiculous single-color, single-size US banknotes. But that's a topic for the Lounge - don't get me started. )

inittab

Interesting, umm... errr... website. I 100% agree with his assessment to "Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!". This boys and girls does not mean water temperature it means engine oil temperature. The water temp always gets up to operating temp before the oil. If you're fortunate to have an oil AND a water temp gauge in your car then you would know this. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but this is important to engine longevity.

amgtortoise

Interesting!. IMHO... I just think that using synthetic would be a waste of money in the RENESIS 1.3 rotary engine without modification. Due to the following:

1. Rotary engine runs aprox EGT 1600-2200 f degrees of temparature. They run higher temperature as compared to a piston engine.
2. Any oil either conventional or synthetic will just break down, if oil change it's not done in a rotary engine due to much higher temperatures it operates.
3. You will destroy or melt down the catalitic converter, if synthetic it's used.
4. DON'T ever use OIL additive, cos it'll not make the rotary engine be unfriendly.
5. Rule of Thumb: ROTARY = THERMAL REACTOR. Just keep it happy with oil changes every 3000 miles.
6. I just don't think the rotary need a break-in period of more than 100 miles, since rotary mechanical efficiency it's super.

I would just recommend finding a conventional oil that will just have the highest boiling point without breaking-down & catalitic safe, or wait for some 'dream space age oil' that will not break-down in a rotary.

wakeech

uh, i dunno where you're getting some of that info and reasoning, but yeah, changing oil is good...

anyways, i remember an old discussion thread on the autoweek board or something about that guy's recommendations for the hard break-in, and there was a LOT of uncertainty about whether or not it's actually good for the engine, or what...

Sputnik

Remember folks, this is a much modified engine, and there will be a few things that are different. So it would be best to check the manual so that you don't miss those "new" items (whether synthetic is allowed/suggested, weight, etc. etc.). And don't forget that you need to follow the manual to keep from voiding the warranty.

---jps

Y&Y

Has anyone seen that infomercial on Z Max. I've tried it on my crappy civ and I did notice a bit of difference in power(meaning I got back some of the original power back). Does anyone think its a good product. Or does it suck ***.

If its ok. Is it ok to use on the renesis?

:D

Hercules

Why would you use a product that gives you more horsepower on a car that's brand new?

I personally wouldn't ever touch one of those products. The only thing I use is a fuel system cleaner every few oil changes to keep the fuel injectors clean. Otherwise, an oil change every 3000.

P00Man

which brings us all back to the age old question...dino or synthetic?

there is still a lot of confusion of the proper break-in of a rotary.
I personaly have no idea, so im just going to follow the manual. Although, some of you "gearheads" may have a bizzare secret map to the rotary fountain of youth.
________
Vapir no2