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-   -   Possible New Renesis Engine Failure Theory? (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/possible-new-renesis-engine-failure-theory-210194/)

9krpmrx8 07-13-2011 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by ASH8 (Post 4029440)
Lets us know the results mate...start a new thread perhaps??


I am rolling my engine rebuild into my turbo build thread since now both will be done at the same time. I really wish the S2 motor swap was realistic :lol:

TeamRX8 07-13-2011 10:53 AM

don't make me repeat myself ..... :p:

RotaryMachineRx 07-13-2011 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by MazdaManiac (Post 3844110)
How did you verify that the injector nozzles were, in fact, clogged?

I've never seen one get clogged. I have seen the check valve fail (that is pretty common), but it would only be an issue on a boosted motor.

Oil consumption should be very low on a highway trip. The commanded injection amount is very slight.
Even with the increased values I command in my AP tuning, I never see more than 1/8 of a quart per 300 miles of constant highway mileage.
I will go through 1/2 quart in 20 minutes on the track (about 15 miles, typically).



I haven't been noticing any less oil consumption than usual and I am premixing usually 6-8oz of 2-stroke with every fill up also; but after installing my turbo I realized my OMP hose and Jet air hose were accidentally swapped (meaning my OMP hose was connected Pre-TB to my chargepipe). Luckily I noticed this error before I had any tunes and I had not hit any positive manifold pressures before swapping the hoses back to their correct places. I now have a high pitched noise and a strong vaccum coming from my OMP hose connected just downstream of my MAF sensor (been there since I moved the lines back to their correct position). Check out his Video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxc498WVMPk




The line I am plugging with my thumb is the OMP hose.

I'm just hoping to get a little insight as to what might be causing this sound but from this thread and a few others I have read I am thinking that it is potentially one or more of my check valves on the OMP injectors. I see MM's post said it could be a potential issue on boosted motors but AFAIK nothing has been adversely affected (yet).

Has anyone seen this before or have any insight to if my guess about the check valves is correct? Thanks in advance!




Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 3843634)
For the price it's easier to just replace everything. I actually wish I could have done my injectors at that time but it was Christmas and I was low on funds.

Do you know what the cost of a new set of oil injectors is? I'm hoping to replace mine along with some of the lines.


Originally Posted by ken-x8 (Post 3845116)
If you have the energy to do that DIY, it would be much appreciated. Even if most of us would not do it ourselves, a lot of us would benefit from the knowledge. I've learned a lot about our cars by reading DIYs that I doubt I'll ever do myself. As well as the ones that I've done or am planning to do when the time comes.

Ken

^ +1



Edit: sorry if any of this has be covered previously but I am reading through this thread as we speak....

9krpmrx8 07-14-2011 12:08 AM

I believe the injectors were 50 each but honestly a buddy works at the dealer and go them for me at his price so I'm not sure.

Manic Mechanic 07-14-2011 03:15 AM

In the UK the oil injectors are 64 GBP each.

Two of mine whistle when blown through but pass the leakdown tests just fine. I get the same sound you describe if I disconnect the hose.
I've heard a few others mention it too, usually noticed when aftermarket intakes are fitted.

RotaryMachineRx 07-14-2011 09:09 AM

^ hmm yeah it's very loud, I can hear it through the hood when I'm parked or at stoplights in traffic even, but I might try to pull those injectors and leakdown test each of them. If they are still good I wonder if fitting a check valve to my OMP intake hose would reduce the noise.... now just to find the time!!

9krpmrx8 08-25-2011 11:10 PM

Bump :)

MazdaManiac 08-25-2011 11:15 PM


Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 4063723)
Bump :)

Why?

9krpmrx8 08-25-2011 11:41 PM

Because there is some good discussion here :)

Beodude 08-26-2011 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 4063750)
Because there is some good discussion here :)


Very good, I learned a lot!

AC8 08-29-2011 02:04 AM

Don't forget about me!!
 
Still only one engine here she is running fine!!

Originally Posted by olddragger (Post 3848983)
new yorker--you like numbers--show/ share the numbers/ percentage that you have that the engine is not getting replaced very frequently? Can you do that?

Personnel experience in Ga--every rx8 owner I know-- except one, and he is really down on power--really down---have had their engines replaced--some more than once.

5w/20 oil, out of control temps, multiple factory pcm
flashes, gas with ethanol, poor fuel pump, engine hot spots due to water pump cavatation etc, no magnet in the oil system, lowest oil pressure on a rotary engine, 9K rpm redline and engine is not balanced for that, 10:1 compression and weak ignition coils --add it up
the s1 renesis didnt have a chance.
I am interested in seeing how the S2 engine is holding up---so far so good?
OD


9krpmrx8 08-29-2011 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by AC8 (Post 4065665)
Still only one engine here she is running fine!!


How many miles?

1.3_LittersOfFurry 08-29-2011 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by Manic Mechanic (Post 4019857)

Am I on the right lines with:

Under light load air and a little oil is drawn in through the oil injectors.

Under heavy load a slight vacuum applied to the point on the oil injector closes the check valve and draws only oil in, no air - so increasing oil usage.

If the above is true.... Wouldn't introducing a restriction to the omp vacuum line increase oil use?

Tamas 08-29-2011 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by 1.3_LittersOfFurry (Post 4065968)
If the above is true.... Wouldn't introducing a restriction to the omp vacuum line increase oil use?

If I'm not mistaken, I read something like that on the German RX-8 forum. IIRC some folks did a similar type of mod.

RotaryMachineRx 08-29-2011 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by RotaryMachineRx (Post 4030662)
^ hmm yeah it's very loud, I can hear it through the hood when I'm parked or at stoplights in traffic even, but I might try to pull those injectors and leakdown test each of them. If they are still good I wonder if fitting a check valve to my OMP intake hose would reduce the noise.... now just to find the time!!



Originally Posted by 1.3_LittersOfFurry (Post 4065968)
If the above is true.... Wouldn't introducing a restriction to the omp vacuum line increase oil use?


Originally Posted by Tamas (Post 4065978)
If I'm not mistaken, I read something like that on the German RX-8 forum. IIRC some folks did a similar type of mod.


Assuming your talking about my previous post?

Rudolph 08-29-2011 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by Tamas (Post 4065978)
If I'm not mistaken, I read something like that on the German RX-8 forum. IIRC some folks did a similar type of mod.

This is correct..... a restriction of the vac. line to a total opening of 2 mm increases the engine oil consumption from approx. 0,3 ltr per 1000 km to approx 0,5 ltr per 1000 km........I tried it myself and indeed these values were observed..........I have restored it to the original vac. opening because I prefer to premix.........
Below the relevant link......
http://www.rx8forum.de/index.php?pag...26291&pageNo=1

AC8 08-29-2011 05:01 PM


Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 (Post 4065787)
How many miles?

45k Not a daily driver. 90% time driven on mountain roads having fun. A few track days, couple long vacation trips. Premix since 5-6k miles, oil changes average every 2k with 5/20 until last week. Went to 15/40. Knocking wood now!! No problems at all, still running like new.
My first rotary, a car guy by definition, change all other fluids very regulary(like driving on a 600 mile vacation, in 100 degree temps, change oil, drive home, change oil)
Love this thread!! Love to learn and listen.
Thanks to all

Tamas 08-29-2011 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 4066109)
This is correct..... a restriction of the vac. line to a total opening of 2 mm increases the engine oil consumption from approx. 0,3 ltr per 1000 km to approx 0,5 ltr per 1000 km........I tried it myself and indeed these values were observed..........I have restored it to the original vac. opening because I prefer to premix.........
Below the relevant link......
http://www.rx8forum.de/index.php?pag...26291&pageNo=1

Yep... thanks Ruud, that's the thread I remembered.
(it requires registration to be able to view it, but the pics are pretty self-explanatory for those who don't understand German.)
Not sure I'd want to go this route though, I also rather premix.

AC8 08-29-2011 05:51 PM

FYI-I'll burn 1-1.5 quarts of oil per 2k miles. Premix 6-8oz, yamalube per tank(or more depending of plans for right foot!) seafomed last month. Will seafome oil injectors this weekend.
Thanks for the tip
Great service from Roswell Mazda-Archie is the Man!!

1.3_LittersOfFurry 08-29-2011 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 4066109)
This is correct..... a restriction of the vac. line to a total opening of 2 mm increases the engine oil consumption from approx. 0,3 ltr per 1000 km to approx 0,5 ltr per 1000 km........I tried it myself and indeed these values were observed..........I have restored it to the original vac. opening because I prefer to premix.........
Below the relevant link......
http://www.rx8forum.de/index.php?pag...26291&pageNo=1

This is something I'm defiantly trying out. Thanks for that link.


Originally Posted by Tamas (Post 4066143)
Yep... thanks Ruud, that's the thread I remembered.
(it requires registration to be able to view it, but the pics are pretty self-explanatory for those who don't understand German.)
Not sure I'd want to go this route though, I also rather premix.

Yes very self explanatory. I also pre-mix 4-6ozs, but would still like to increase oil consumption.


RotaryMachineRx, sorry I must have missed that post, most of my forum reading is done at work on my phone so its easy to get side tracked.

Tamas 08-29-2011 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by 1.3_LittersOfFurry (Post 4066221)
I also pre-mix 4-6ozs, but would still like to increase oil consumption.

For that, I trust MazdaManiac's AP tune which increases the OMP rate as far as I know... that and my 6 oz premix per fillup should hopefully be enough :)

1.3_LittersOfFurry 08-29-2011 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by Tamas (Post 4066224)
For that, I trust MazdaManiac's AP tune which increases the OMP rate as far as I know... that and my 6 oz premix per fillup should hopefully be enough :)

:uhh: Well I cant really afford that atm... Next $500 is going to shocks anyway. My warranty ends next month, I'll more than likely have one by the end of the year... Until then I wanna give this a shot.

9krpmrx8 08-29-2011 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by AC8 (Post 4066126)
45k Not a daily driver. 90% time driven on mountain roads having fun. A few track days, couple long vacation trips. Premix since 5-6k miles, oil changes average every 2k with 5/20 until last week. Went to 15/40. Knocking wood now!! No problems at all, still running like new.
My first rotary, a car guy by definition, change all other fluids very regulary(like driving on a 600 mile vacation, in 100 degree temps, change oil, drive home, change oil)
Love this thread!! Love to learn and listen.
Thanks to all


I figured, most of the people that brag about having original motors have low mileage. Don't jinx yourself man. My first engine lasted 22k, second 74k, and third 30k. It's sort of hit or miss, even more so with remans. We just had our first 07' fail in the SARX group, it's a well maintained 07' with 49k on it.

maxchao 08-30-2011 06:48 AM

it really sounds like hit or miss...

I have always wondered, does premix even help? In theory it certainly does, but I haven't seen any statistical data, plus I haven't seen anyone came out with a 150k engine and said I premixed from day one. Hence I wonder...

1.3_LittersOfFurry 08-30-2011 08:26 AM

^ it's almost impossible to tell since Mazda likes rebuilding engines with used parts.


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