VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Can the OMP be successfully eliminated, not used or removed and blocked with the PREMIXING of oil in the Fuel Tank INSTEAD to fully lubricate the Rotor housings ? ? ? 1/2 oz of oil per gallon of fuel formula (a 1/4 of a Quart of oil per fill-up I believe.)

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Separate Question: The statement that the motor wont rev past like 4k with the OMP not working, is this a FACT ? I'm having a similar problem currently.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

i think removing the omp will put the car into limo mode. premix isnt a bad idea, but you might want to check into a sohn adapter

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Separate question 1: Why is this posted in General Discussion rather than the Tech forum?

Separate question 2: Why did you fail to search the topic properly?

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

I executed ONE search... lol and only one topic appeared, then I made this thread.. It's always good to renew a good couple of facts anyways.. Anyhow, this is more particularly toward my setup but what exactly is Limp mode again, stuck Pulse widths ? I got a Haltech running Ignition and Fuel therefore those won't be affected by the limp mode.

Separate fact #2 : I wasn't sure where to post this thread, it's not really involving an OEM setup and it's not really a mod that will gain HP sooo..

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Seen these too but if simply premixing oil with the gas substitutes a pump altogether then I would like to eliminate it and pre mix from now on..

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/oil_in...p_adaptors.htm

Won't oil mixed fuel foul out spark plugs ?

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Plus the real question here is really Will premixing synthetic oil with gasoline every fuel up work as a substitute for the Oil Metering Pump ? Other threads are about premixing on Rx8's with OMP's working fine already, so my setup won't have those squirters on top, are they essential for the Renesis motor or can it slide without the OMP and just the pre mix..

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Removing the OMP is not a good idea. It's primary purpose was originally thought to be apex seal lubrication, but it has been since agreed that it's primary purpose is to keep the side seal temperatures down. Without the OMP, the side seals and springs overheat from their proximity to the exhaust port, and the springs slowly deform, pushing the seal out of place more and more until the seal clips the exhaust port and shatters, throwing the remains of the seal through the engine and having significant compression loss.

Try this post: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=248
In this thread: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/possible-new-renesis-engine-failure-theory-210194/page5/

The whole thread is full of good information around this very topic, but it's got some pretty conclusive evidence from someone that has the resources to run, blow, rebuild, run, blow, rebuild, engines on a regular basis, even if they don't want to. Granted, it's RACE engines, that don't see the street conditions we do, but I would say that certain things are still applicable, such as not removing the OMP.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Our plugs do foul easily, and the oil in the combustion chamber is likely one reason behind it. There is no way around this problem though, unless you can perfect laser ignition

If you premix, don't premix "synthetic", use 2-stroke (unless that is what you mean. "Synthetic", to me, means 4-stroke. 4-stroke isn't meant to burn, 2-stroke is.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

No OMP hooked up = Limp Mode.

WhiteDealershipRice

Yep, NO ammount of premixing will give you the lubrication & localized cooling that the OMP Provides, otherwise Mazda would have not designed additional complexity (& therefore manufacturing expense) into the engine.

Premixing Is good to add that "additional margin of safety" (especially on US- Spec engines that are ECU- tuned for minimal emmissions)

Being able to change the tune in th efactory ECU to allow more oil and let the engine run a little "dirtyer" would achieve a similar result, albeit, it would fail emmissions, therefore is Illegal

There IS "Synthetic" 2-stroke oil. You can find it in Motorcycle/ powersports dealers. Advances autoparts/wallyworld etc sell "Marine grade" (regular) 2-stroke.

You can get some really exotic, 2-stroke synthetics at the powersports dealers. (There are some that are even certified for use with catalityc converters, as there are stil street legal 2-stroke older motorcycles on teh road, & scooters being produced in other parts of the world)

I've been alternating between Penzoil Marine 2-stroke synthetic (what I consider the "cheap" stuff at $6/24OZ, or 2 fill ups at my mixing ratio) and Motul 710 ester (a 100% synthetic designed for street driven, fuel injected 2-stroke motorcycles equipped with a catalytic converter) However, at $8 per 12 OZ that stuff is expensive! as I mix 12 OZ per fill-up

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Well that shined some light down on me! thanks

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Hmm how about turning the dial all the way to the left on the OMP and leaving it there and giving 12v switched ACC power to the OMP, will it do it's job then without RPM readings?

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I don't have an answer to that.

The ECU currently drives the OMP based on load, not on RPM. The RPM limit "limp mode" without it hooked up is because you can't generate critically painful levels of heat in the engine under 4k, and thus, largely safe driving under 4k without an OMP ("so you can limp it to the dealer" is the justification).

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

srsly ... stop making silly guessing posts and educate yourself, there are numerous threads on the OMP limp mode, it's removal, increasing the settings, premix, the whole enchilada

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Soldier:
FYI, there is an active search bar now, the button is no longer needed


And Google's "site:rx8club.com " + search terms is far more accurate and doesn't waste your time.

This guy also doesn't have an RX-8, but is doing a Renesis swap into another chassis, so I give him some leeway.

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

Yeah thanks for being on my side and how about that question on running the OMP with a 12v reading, ANYBODY got an answer for that?

My problem right now is that there are no RPM readings and the OMP is not working due to some cut wires.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Mazdamaniac has messed around with enough OMP stuff that he probably can, and EricMeyer doesn't run an OEM ECU, and has independant control, so he could probably tell you how they do it.

I am not aware of anyone else that has messed around with OMP enough to be able to answer that question.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

Is that directed at me?
I always use google search. It was a fun way of telling him to try that before posting a new thread.
And no, I didn't know the op was swapping. I can understand that, but it still doesn't mean he should be lazy. As a matter of fact, educating himself would be more beneficial. Instead of yes or no answers, he can open up a floodgate of new questions/answers that will help understand the RENESIS more.

I digress though. Good luck with the build!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. If he was just a newbie RX-8 owner, I'd probably be telling him to search as well. But I've been following his Starquest build thread, and know he isn't just a lazy kid. When dealing with something fairly out of the ordinary, it brings EVERYTHING into debate and question in the mind of whomever is doing it. I've gone through alot of the same mental questions in my plans for my Miata build, so I know how it is. Searching for, and finding, pre-canned answers that relate to the RX-8 always leaves the question "but is that the answer because it's an RX-8? Or because it's the Renesis?"

And getting that clarity is going to inevitably result in a new thread If a floodgate of new questions/answers results, that is a good thing for him, not bad, even if it seems against etiquette for the forum

WhiteDealershipRice

The OMP is not a "Pump" per se, but a solenoid valve (It merely allows the oil pressure built by the engine's normal oil pump to reach the oil injector nozzles built into the engine housing.
Putting straight 12v into it would lock it open, which would flood your engine with motor oil.

VICEdOUT

iTrader: (1)

So it could maybe be controlled with a DPO from the Haltech then, to say, come in above 3000 RPM perhaps.. Not to regulate the amount of oil but to turn it on above a certain point in the RPMs. That might work too.


I don't see why it would even go into limp mode as stated earlier, a Haltech is used so unless it's piggybacked on the wiring with the oem ecu, any limp mode readings shouldn't matter..

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Wait, you are running a Haltech ECU

You should be completely bypassing the limp mode then, since that limp mode is an OEM RX-8 ECU feature

You should still have it hooked up and working, but it does seem like it's 2 different issues here.

RPM trigger is one option, but if you have any way of tying it to load or MAF flow, or even EGTs, it would probably be better than RPM. I'd seriously contact EricMeyer and discuss it with him.

maskedferret

iTrader: (1)

To drive you completely away from this pre-mix only idea, realize that this is a drive by wire system. What happens to fuel input when you let off the gas around 9k rpm while in gear? Where is your lubrication now?