Oil Change questions
06-03-2009, 04:33 PM
#27
Make stuff up? I'm 57 years old and have been changing oil/filters since I was 12. You can do the math. And no, oil filters haven't changed much mechanically, if at all, in all those years.
Go ahead and over-tighten your oil filter if you want to, it's your car (and your subsequent headaches).
Go ahead and over-tighten your oil filter if you want to, it's your car (and your subsequent headaches).
If we are going to talk about "supposed to be", then you are only tightening 20 percent of the way.
I'm pretty sure the Mazda filters I have, say 1 + 1/6 turns after contact; it's printed right on the doggone filter and it even has white dots spaced at 60 degrees to use as reference.
Why do people make this stuff up?
I'm pretty sure the Mazda filters I have, say 1 + 1/6 turns after contact; it's printed right on the doggone filter and it even has white dots spaced at 60 degrees to use as reference.
Why do people make this stuff up?
06-03-2009, 07:34 PM
#28
and how motor oil works, like material, additives package. spec. API. etc.
so you will know 5w20 is not good enough.
Last edited by nycgps; 06-03-2009 at 07:43 PM.
06-03-2009, 07:42 PM
#29
Call me ROTO BAGGINS
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Just so we're clear, you're telling me that when Mazda says use 5W20 in the manual, when the dealer will tell you that they always use 5W20, and the engine oil cap even explicitly says that it wants 5W20, they're wrong?
06-03-2009, 07:45 PM
#30
Dont forget, 5w20 is just "recommended", not "required."
20w50 is what I use during summer. and Im going to try 0w50 this coming winter(Eneos)
Its just funny that in the owner's manual, I can probably find the line that Mazda "recommends" ALL owners to perform ALL work at Authorize Mazda dealer like 50 times. Most people never listened to that.
But people take "Recommend 5w20" line like holy bible or something.
Last edited by nycgps; 06-03-2009 at 07:55 PM.
06-03-2009, 07:55 PM
#31
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I'm sorry if I sounded confrontational about that ncyg, I genuinely did not mean to be. I have simply just never given the oil type a second thought - it says use 5W20 and so I have. I find this entire discussion fascinating to be perfectly frank, because I am a nerd and interested in things like viscosity. I will have to do more research so I'm not bringing a knife to a gun fight, it seems.
06-03-2009, 07:58 PM
#32
I'm sorry if I sounded confrontational about that ncyg, I genuinely did not mean to be. I have simply just never given the oil type a second thought - it says use 5W20 and so I have. I find this entire discussion fascinating to be perfectly frank, because I am a nerd and interested in things like viscosity. I will have to do more research so I'm not bringing a knife to a gun fight, it seems.
I just find it funny that people really love to "choose" the stuff that they believe in. like this "recommended" issue. no one ever has an answer to my question.
06-03-2009, 09:24 PM
#33
Registered
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/using-oil-other-than-5w20-175160/#8
That's pretty much what the engineers have figured is appropriate for various ambient temperatures. 5w20 is within range for most conditions. BUT:
1. In the US it's politically chosen, for fuel economy reasons. It even says so in the owner's manual.
2. It's on the edge of acceptable weights. There's a style of handbook engineering that says when you build something out of catalog parts, pick something from the middle of the list, not the edge.
I haven't had control over oil weight, since two years of free changes at the dealer were too good to pass up and after that I got used to staying clean. But I did not mind one bit when the dealer switched from 5w20 to 5w30. I personally would not use the weight nycgps uses, at least not if I lived that far north, but he's put a lot of research and smarts into his decision.
Ken
06-03-2009, 10:18 PM
#34
in case someone too lazy to click Ken's link
so technically speaking, 20w50 oil still "works" even when its dead cold like 12 degress. (coldest day in NYC last year, w00t), At least a "True" Synthetic oil would work (mineral not quite, its going to freeze and turn into wax, not good)
Plus, if you go visit some major motor oil company's site, they will tell you this :
notice anything between 0w20 to 20w50 ?
the lightest 20 weight oil is all about "fuel economy/efficiency". Not much about protection.
As the weight goes up, the fuel economy part is still there (or else people probably wouldn't buy it
) but hey guess what? the word "protection" came up !!!! all the way up to 50 weight it "provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection ..."
while is true that if you use heavier oil, you will get a slight degrade in performance. but the % is <2% in most cases and you will get couple times more protection for your engine. do you think thats worth it ? if your engine breaks down, will EPA/California buy you a new car? I dont think so.
Castrol is not the only place that has stuff like the above. check other manufactures.
so technically speaking, 20w50 oil still "works" even when its dead cold like 12 degress. (coldest day in NYC last year, w00t), At least a "True" Synthetic oil would work (mineral not quite, its going to freeze and turn into wax, not good)
Plus, if you go visit some major motor oil company's site, they will tell you this :
Castrol's Syntec line (most of them are not true Synthetic oil, I just need their words.
Available Grades
Castrol SYNTEC Bottle close-up
SAE 5W–20:
Castrol SYNTEC is the first major full synthetic oil brand to offer a 5W–20 that is specifically formulated to meet the needs of Ford, Chrysler, Honda and Toyota 5W–20 service. SYNTEC 5W–20 provides excellent cold weather performance and exceeds the stringent performance, fuel economy and fuel economy retention requirements of the ILSAC GF–4 specification. SYNTEC 5W–20 also exceeds the stringent Ford WSS–M2C930–A and Ford WSS–M2C153–H specifications, and exceeds all the requirements of ILSAC GF–4 and GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. Exceeds API SM.
SAE 0W–20
Castrol SYNTEC 0W-20 is formulated the meet the needs of modern fuel-efficient vehicles including hybrids, where SAE 0W-20 is endorsed by the manufacturer. SYNTEC 0W-20 is a full synthetic oil that helps extend engine life while delivering maximum fuel economy. SYNTEC 0W-20 is suitable for newer Toyota, Honda, Chrysler and Mercury models. Because of its low viscosity, SYNTEC 0W-20 provides excellent protection in low temperatures. API service SM. SYNTEC 0W-20 meets catalyst/emissions system compatibility and all requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2.
SAE 0W–30:
Castrol SYNTEC 0W–30 European Formula is engineered to meet the Mercedes Benz 229.5 specification. The 0W–30 viscosity grade is ideal for winter conditions where low temperature pumpability is required. A unique, low–temperature formulation provides exceptional pumpability in cold weather and allows for unaided engine starts down to –40ºF. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01; MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5; BMW LL–01; GM–LLA–025, GM–LL–B–025 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 5W–30:
is the most recommended grade in today's new cars. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A1, A5, B1, B5, GM 6094M; Ford WSS M2C929–A and all requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. In extreme tests, Castrol SYNTEC 5W-30 maintains maximum horsepower longer than the leading conventional oil.
SAE 10W30:
is the leading consumer grade. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A1, A5, B1, B5, GM 6094M and all requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards.
SAE 10W–40:
often used with older cars. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3. B3, B4 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 5W–50:
provides the widest range of protection available. SAE 5W–50 delivers exceptional cold temperature pumpability for rapid oil circulation at start–up and provides a thick oil film for ultimate wear protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3; Ford WSS–M2C931–A and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 5W–40:
is engineered specifically to meet the Volkswagen engine warranty requirements, exceeding VW 502 00 and 505 00. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection for gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Porsche approved and also exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, MB 229.3, MB 229.1, BMW LL–98. Meets the engine protection requirements of Volvo, BMW, Mercedes Benz and ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 20W–50:
provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified gasoline Engine Oils.
Available Grades
Castrol SYNTEC Bottle close-up
SAE 5W–20:
Castrol SYNTEC is the first major full synthetic oil brand to offer a 5W–20 that is specifically formulated to meet the needs of Ford, Chrysler, Honda and Toyota 5W–20 service. SYNTEC 5W–20 provides excellent cold weather performance and exceeds the stringent performance, fuel economy and fuel economy retention requirements of the ILSAC GF–4 specification. SYNTEC 5W–20 also exceeds the stringent Ford WSS–M2C930–A and Ford WSS–M2C153–H specifications, and exceeds all the requirements of ILSAC GF–4 and GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. Exceeds API SM.
SAE 0W–20
Castrol SYNTEC 0W-20 is formulated the meet the needs of modern fuel-efficient vehicles including hybrids, where SAE 0W-20 is endorsed by the manufacturer. SYNTEC 0W-20 is a full synthetic oil that helps extend engine life while delivering maximum fuel economy. SYNTEC 0W-20 is suitable for newer Toyota, Honda, Chrysler and Mercury models. Because of its low viscosity, SYNTEC 0W-20 provides excellent protection in low temperatures. API service SM. SYNTEC 0W-20 meets catalyst/emissions system compatibility and all requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2.
SAE 0W–30:
Castrol SYNTEC 0W–30 European Formula is engineered to meet the Mercedes Benz 229.5 specification. The 0W–30 viscosity grade is ideal for winter conditions where low temperature pumpability is required. A unique, low–temperature formulation provides exceptional pumpability in cold weather and allows for unaided engine starts down to –40ºF. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4; VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01; MB 229.1, 229.3, 229.5; BMW LL–01; GM–LLA–025, GM–LL–B–025 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 5W–30:
is the most recommended grade in today's new cars. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A1, A5, B1, B5, GM 6094M; Ford WSS M2C929–A and all requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. In extreme tests, Castrol SYNTEC 5W-30 maintains maximum horsepower longer than the leading conventional oil.
SAE 10W30:
is the leading consumer grade. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A1, A5, B1, B5, GM 6094M and all requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards.
SAE 10W–40:
often used with older cars. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3. B3, B4 and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 5W–50:
provides the widest range of protection available. SAE 5W–50 delivers exceptional cold temperature pumpability for rapid oil circulation at start–up and provides a thick oil film for ultimate wear protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3; Ford WSS–M2C931–A and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 5W–40:
is engineered specifically to meet the Volkswagen engine warranty requirements, exceeding VW 502 00 and 505 00. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection for gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Porsche approved and also exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, MB 229.3, MB 229.1, BMW LL–98. Meets the engine protection requirements of Volvo, BMW, Mercedes Benz and ILSAC GF–3 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 20W–50:
provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of ILSAC GF–4 for API Certified gasoline Engine Oils.
here is the Castrol GTX info. most people love GTX
SAE 5W-20:
is a premium, multi-grade oil, providing cold start protection with Exceptional Fuel Economy. SAE 5W-20 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. Exceeds Ford specifications WSS M2C153-H and WSS M2C930-A. Exceeds the service fill requirements of Ford, Honda and Chrysler where SAE 5W-20 motor oil is specified. SAE 5W-20 should only be used in vehicles where SAE 5W-20 is recommended by manufacturer.
SAE 5W-30:
is a premium, super multi-grade that provides maximum cold weather engine protection and can help extend engine life. SAE 5W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for PI Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards.
SAE 10W-30:
is a premium, super multi-grade that provides excellent fuel economy and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M.
SAE 10W-40:
is a premium, super multigrade that provides maximum protection in all seasons and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-40 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the engine protection requirements for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 20W-50:
is a premium, super multigrade that guards against wear by providing a superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature strength. 20W-50 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH. Use SAE 20W-50 when ambient temperature is above 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
SAE 5W-20:
is a premium, multi-grade oil, providing cold start protection with Exceptional Fuel Economy. SAE 5W-20 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. Exceeds Ford specifications WSS M2C153-H and WSS M2C930-A. Exceeds the service fill requirements of Ford, Honda and Chrysler where SAE 5W-20 motor oil is specified. SAE 5W-20 should only be used in vehicles where SAE 5W-20 is recommended by manufacturer.
SAE 5W-30:
is a premium, super multi-grade that provides maximum cold weather engine protection and can help extend engine life. SAE 5W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for PI Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards.
SAE 10W-30:
is a premium, super multi-grade that provides excellent fuel economy and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M.
SAE 10W-40:
is a premium, super multigrade that provides maximum protection in all seasons and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-40 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the engine protection requirements for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 20W-50:
is a premium, super multigrade that guards against wear by providing a superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature strength. 20W-50 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH. Use SAE 20W-50 when ambient temperature is above 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
the lightest 20 weight oil is all about "fuel economy/efficiency". Not much about protection.
As the weight goes up, the fuel economy part is still there (or else people probably wouldn't buy it
) but hey guess what? the word "protection" came up !!!! all the way up to 50 weight it "provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection ..."while is true that if you use heavier oil, you will get a slight degrade in performance. but the % is <2% in most cases and you will get couple times more protection for your engine. do you think thats worth it ? if your engine breaks down, will EPA/California buy you a new car? I dont think so.
Castrol is not the only place that has stuff like the above. check other manufactures.
Last edited by nycgps; 06-03-2009 at 10:38 PM.
06-04-2009, 11:50 AM
#35
Lubricious
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Make stuff up? I'm 57 years old and have been changing oil/filters since I was 12. You can do the math. And no, oil filters haven't changed much mechanically, if at all, in all those years.
Go ahead and over-tighten your oil filter if you want to, it's your car (and your subsequent headaches).
Go ahead and over-tighten your oil filter if you want to, it's your car (and your subsequent headaches).
As far as filters changing, I imagine the tightening spec may have something to do with the stiffness of the rubber chosen for the gasket. The Mazda filter recommends 1 1/6 turns. I have used filters on other cars in the past that recommend a 3/4 turn. I don't ever recall seeing a recommendation for 1/4 turn on any car oil filter. I'm 49 and have only been changing filters since 16 so...
Now, I use 0w40 synthetic oil
and pre-mix with MMO, so as nycpgs says I am pickign and chosing which recommendations to believe in.
06-04-2009, 11:58 AM
#36
LOL, ok close enough. 
It is all about materials technology.
I pick and choose as well, after all, they're recommendations. At a point you have to engage your own brain.
It is all about materials technology.I pick and choose as well, after all, they're recommendations. At a point you have to engage your own brain.
Understood, but it's one thing to claim success with a universal 1/4 rule for all filters, and another thing to claim that it's "recommended" when a very different recommendation is printed right on the filter can. Or that following the instructions on the filter is "over-tightening".
As far as filters changing, I imagine the tightening spec may have something to do with the stiffness of the rubber chosen for the gasket. The Mazda filter recommends 1 1/6 turns. I have used filters on other cars in the past that recommend a 3/4 turn. I don't ever recall seeing a recommendation for 1/4 turn on any car oil filter. I'm 49 and have only been changing filters since 16 so...
Now, I use 0w40 synthetic oil and pre-mix with MMO, so as nycpgs says I am pickign and chosing which recommendations to believe in.
As far as filters changing, I imagine the tightening spec may have something to do with the stiffness of the rubber chosen for the gasket. The Mazda filter recommends 1 1/6 turns. I have used filters on other cars in the past that recommend a 3/4 turn. I don't ever recall seeing a recommendation for 1/4 turn on any car oil filter. I'm 49 and have only been changing filters since 16 so...
Now, I use 0w40 synthetic oil
and pre-mix with MMO, so as nycpgs says I am pickign and chosing which recommendations to believe in. 
06-05-2009, 10:43 AM
#40
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you cannot tell the quality of oil by color. in about 500 miles most motor oil would turn dark brown/black.
I usually be able to drain about 5.5 quarts out. jack driver side up first, open and drain, leave it there for a bit, put it down, jack the passenger side, wait a bit, then I finally jack the driver side again
for this car, oil carries around 1/3 of the engine heat so every little bit counts
you live next to a race track do ya ?
I turn mine for another 1/2 or 3/4 turn. of course no leak whatsoever
I usually be able to drain about 5.5 quarts out.
jack driver side up first, open and drain, leave it there for a bit, put it down, jack the passenger side, wait a bit, then I finally jack the driver side again for this car, oil carries around 1/3 of the engine heat so every little bit counts
you live next to a race track do ya ?
I turn mine for another 1/2 or 3/4 turn. of course no leak whatsoever
I don't live that close to any particular track but pretty much the only time the 8 gets driven is when its being taken out for some track time, and maybe some fun on some back roads.
I don't buy the mazda branded oil filters. I get as much of the parts I need thru carquest. They have the same quality stuff (its made by the same manufacturers that mazda gets their parts from and made to the same or better specs) but for much less. I go thru so much stuff that I get some nice discounts when I shop there. So the 1/4 to 1/3 extra turn is enough, and thats past just making contact. I turn the filter til its not turning easily, which is already past just seating it, and then go the extra little bit. Never had an issue getting the filters off. But then I have a lot of patience when working on car. Comes from years of fixing old cars that other people neglect.
And as far as oil choice goes, mine is pretty much determined by the fact that it gets changed often enough that synthetics don't offer me any advantage. I do the proper warmup and cooldown on the car so I don't let it heat soak the oil stuck in the eccentric shaft. My car came with the dual oil coolers (which are still marginal) but the MM flash helps keep the car cooler to begin with so I'm not concerned. And you do want to run an oil thats suited to your temperature. Run a summer oil and and winter oil if you drive it all year round.
If you really want the best info for oil, there is a thread dedicated to just oil choices with plenty of info. SAE technical papers and such.
Well the oil technical thread was junked (if you still want to read it, https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/oil-technical-145817/page4/). Still found the link to a good resource for anyone having questions about oil.
http://www.zag.si/~jank/public/bmw/oil_bible.pdf
Last edited by mrslysly; 06-05-2009 at 10:54 AM.
06-05-2009, 11:57 AM
#41
I cant change my oil without jack/jackstands, coilover lowered the car too much.
I get my Mazda filter for around 4 bux. to me thats pretty good price and OE filters are usually pretty high quality, much better than those FRAM junk out there (and usually FRAM cost more!)
I read thru all SAE/API/whatever papers from all over the place (internet, books in library, etc), so I have a pretty good idea how it works/what it means. but the oil bible thing, take it as a reference to some stuff. not everything. cuz afterall its just some very personal opinion.
I get my Mazda filter for around 4 bux. to me thats pretty good price and OE filters are usually pretty high quality, much better than those FRAM junk out there (and usually FRAM cost more!)
I read thru all SAE/API/whatever papers from all over the place (internet, books in library, etc), so I have a pretty good idea how it works/what it means. but the oil bible thing, take it as a reference to some stuff. not everything. cuz afterall its just some very personal opinion.
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