New TSB from Mazda Australia says mineral oils only!
09-03-2006, 09:56 AM
#126
Registered
Not quite. If they want to require a special brand (such as their vaunted Dexelia), I think they can do so as long as they provide it free of charge.
My dealer is giving me free oil changes for the first two years. I'll make sure I ask what oil they put in.
Ken
09-03-2006, 10:32 AM
#127
Registered User
What's This Then?
Originally Posted by ASH8
I can assure you that Mazda Japan have NEVER recommended the use of Synth in ANY of their Rotary engines, from 10a,12a,13a,13b,20b, Ren 13B, they all use that same oil control ring and o ring design.
09-04-2006, 01:33 AM
#129
Originally Posted by two rotors
Can you assure me of the same?
I always believe in "actual" fact like REAL LIFE people's experience(like myself, RG, RB, and many many MANY others) than "myth/marketing".
and I ALWAYS wonder Why People wont listen to Mazda when Mazda said
"Mazda recommend you to perform this service at a Mazda Dealer"
"Mazda does NOT recommend any aftermarket parts, use original Mazda parts"
Especially the second one, people put this and that into their rotary but just not Oil, what a Joke.
talking about oil ring, Oh I cant say for all cuz I dont know all but I thought that most Synthentic oil changed their stuff to prevent that from happening. OH THATS WHAT HAPPENED ! and they changed it because its causing problems with OTHER ENGINE AS WELL, NOT ONLY ROTARY. and the change was like what? more than a decade ago ? Now we're using even MORE advance oils now (Synth or Mineral), and science proved that Synth is getting more advance than Mineral.
Oh yeah, shake n bake !
Last edited by nycgps; 09-04-2006 at 01:39 AM.
09-04-2006, 02:33 AM
#130
Shifty Bastard.
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Let me throw this out there for discussion....
In the last few years Mazda Japan have pulled down a large number of failed USDM Renesis engines. It's reasonable to suggest that the knowledge they have gained from the strip down of these engines has led (in some part at least) to the current RX-8 recall.
They would have seen the carbon build up. By testing the carbon samples they could easily ascertain the oil base used in each engine. A crapload of testing would have been done before Mazda sent out this recall, they don't recall ***** nilly. I'm sure they have carried out laboratory testing of this carbon. Let me suggest that the results they found pointed the finger of blame at synthetics. Some synthetics, not all. Not RP...we all know that is Gods Oil.
Some of the engines pulled down did not ever have synthetic in them, but significant numbers of them did. What do Mazda do? They warn other markets about the "danger" of synthetic usage. Weird American liability laws preclude them from doing it in the USA. They carry out a recall to fix affected engines in the USA and reflash the PCM to provide an increased MOP output. This increase lifts the compression back up to spec and the improved combustion reduces the carbon build up.
Just a theory.....
In the last few years Mazda Japan have pulled down a large number of failed USDM Renesis engines. It's reasonable to suggest that the knowledge they have gained from the strip down of these engines has led (in some part at least) to the current RX-8 recall.
They would have seen the carbon build up. By testing the carbon samples they could easily ascertain the oil base used in each engine. A crapload of testing would have been done before Mazda sent out this recall, they don't recall ***** nilly. I'm sure they have carried out laboratory testing of this carbon. Let me suggest that the results they found pointed the finger of blame at synthetics. Some synthetics, not all. Not RP...we all know that is Gods Oil.
Some of the engines pulled down did not ever have synthetic in them, but significant numbers of them did. What do Mazda do? They warn other markets about the "danger" of synthetic usage. Weird American liability laws preclude them from doing it in the USA. They carry out a recall to fix affected engines in the USA and reflash the PCM to provide an increased MOP output. This increase lifts the compression back up to spec and the improved combustion reduces the carbon build up.
Just a theory.....
09-04-2006, 03:16 AM
#131
I gave up a long, long time ago...(:D) tring to help people who already have made up their minds. I'll keep using my evil oil. If I'm wrong??? Let Mazda try to void my warranty. I'll tell them(Dealer) what ever they want to here. Syn oil? NEVER! 
I still want a Vegie-might sandwich
I still want a Vegie-might sandwich
09-04-2006, 03:47 AM
#133
Super Moderator
Originally Posted by two rotors
Can you assure me of the same?
What's this then...
09-04-2006, 06:57 AM
#135
Registered User
Originally Posted by Gomez
Let me throw this out there for discussion....
In the last few years Mazda Japan have pulled down a large number of failed USDM Renesis engines. It's reasonable to suggest that the knowledge they have gained from the strip down of these engines has led (in some part at least) to the current RX-8 recall.
They would have seen the carbon build up. By testing the carbon samples they could easily ascertain the oil base used in each engine. A crapload of testing would have been done before Mazda sent out this recall, they don't recall ***** nilly. I'm sure they have carried out laboratory testing of this carbon. Let me suggest that the results they found pointed the finger of blame at synthetics. Some synthetics, not all. Not RP...we all know that is Gods Oil.
Some of the engines pulled down did not ever have synthetic in them, but significant numbers of them did. What do Mazda do? They warn other markets about the "danger" of synthetic usage. Weird American liability laws preclude them from doing it in the USA. They carry out a recall to fix affected engines in the USA and reflash the PCM to provide an increased MOP output. This increase lifts the compression back up to spec and the improved combustion reduces the carbon build up.
Just a theory.....
In the last few years Mazda Japan have pulled down a large number of failed USDM Renesis engines. It's reasonable to suggest that the knowledge they have gained from the strip down of these engines has led (in some part at least) to the current RX-8 recall.
They would have seen the carbon build up. By testing the carbon samples they could easily ascertain the oil base used in each engine. A crapload of testing would have been done before Mazda sent out this recall, they don't recall ***** nilly. I'm sure they have carried out laboratory testing of this carbon. Let me suggest that the results they found pointed the finger of blame at synthetics. Some synthetics, not all. Not RP...we all know that is Gods Oil.
Some of the engines pulled down did not ever have synthetic in them, but significant numbers of them did. What do Mazda do? They warn other markets about the "danger" of synthetic usage. Weird American liability laws preclude them from doing it in the USA. They carry out a recall to fix affected engines in the USA and reflash the PCM to provide an increased MOP output. This increase lifts the compression back up to spec and the improved combustion reduces the carbon build up.
Just a theory.....
Your countryman ASH8 makes a bold statement that Mazda have never recommended synthetic oil for rotary engines,I provide proof that he is wrong and you ignore it.I should also point out that Mazda's recommendation for oil in (some)other markets is the same as I show in my post above.
I have no idea why Mazda would issue the Service Information Bulletin regarding synthetic oil,in Australia and Europe and not in North America when more than 50% of RX-8 sales are in North America.It does not seem like a prudent action to me.
Maybe we should start using sheep dip to lubricate our motors!
09-04-2006, 07:31 AM
#136
Registered User
Originally Posted by ASH8
What's this then...
09-04-2006, 07:47 AM
#137
Shifty Bastard.
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Originally Posted by two rotors
This is NOT a Theory! It is unsupported supposition.You do not have clue how many engines have been stripped down,you do not have a clue what fraction of those pulled down ran on synthetic oil.
Your countryman ASH8 makes a bold statement that Mazda have never recommended synthetic oil for rotary engines,I provide proof that he is wrong and you ignore it.I should also point out that Mazda's recommendation for oil in (some)other markets is the same as I show in my post above.
I have no idea why Mazda would issue the Service Information Bulletin regarding synthetic oil,in Australia and Europe and not in North America when more than 50% of RX-8 sales are in North America.It does not seem like a prudent action to me.
Maybe we should start using sheep dip to lubricate our motors!
Your countryman ASH8 makes a bold statement that Mazda have never recommended synthetic oil for rotary engines,I provide proof that he is wrong and you ignore it.I should also point out that Mazda's recommendation for oil in (some)other markets is the same as I show in my post above.
I have no idea why Mazda would issue the Service Information Bulletin regarding synthetic oil,in Australia and Europe and not in North America when more than 50% of RX-8 sales are in North America.It does not seem like a prudent action to me.
Maybe we should start using sheep dip to lubricate our motors!
You don't like it? OK.
09-04-2006, 08:04 AM
#138
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Some famous (last) words: (this thread brings to mind)"Helmet! Screw the helmet, I'm careful, and I love the wind blowing in my face."
"Seatbelts are confining. I only wear mine sometimes on long trips."
"Smoking bad? Bah! It's a liberal plot to impoverish tobacco growers. I'll smoke til I die!"
"My sizzor jack holds the car up just fine. Hell I been under it and it barely moves at all."
"We're always careful when it's her time, she'll never get pregnent by me!"
"I'll just roll in the grass after I set myself on fire! I've seen it done on TV."
"One more for the road just helps me relax and concentrate better."
"Et tu, Brute?"
(w/notable exceptions - you know who you are!
) "I know more than all the rotary engine engineers in the world combined. Damn the inlet ports, it's full synthetic in my car!" 
Last edited by Spin9k; 09-04-2006 at 08:06 AM.
09-04-2006, 08:51 AM
#140
Registered
If you read the information in my Owners'Manual clearly Castrol Syntec meets all the requirements.
If that's it, why spend more money for synthetics when there are much cheaper oils available that meet the requirements? Even Mobil Clean 5000 mile, which Mobil says won't last through Mazda's 7500 mile change interval, is SL.
Is there any industry standard rating for synthetic oils? Personally, I believe the claims the oil companies make about the performance of their synthetics, but can they put their results into an objective rating scheme?
While poking around oil company web sites, I found this interesting page at Mobil:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ics/Myths.aspx
Look at the answer to the second myth. I know Mobil 1 is the one synth on everyone's blacklist for rotaries, but how would anyone just looking at the owner's manual and API label know that?
Ken
09-04-2006, 09:48 AM
#141
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/faqsa.html#re1
Rotary Engines
Can Royal Purple Motor Oil be used in a rotary engine?
Yes. A rotary engine is a modified four cycle engine that recommends the use of an API licensed motor oil for street applications.
More information and FAQs on lubrication of Rotary Engines:
In a rotary engine, the oil lubricates the eccentric shaft bearings, thrust needle bearings and rotor bearings similar to a crank and rod bearing of a piston engine as well as being injected into the combustion chambers to lubricate the apex seals, corner seals, and side seals helping to create the sealing mechanism doing the equivalent job of the piston rings.
Royal Purple provides outstanding protection for the e-shaft, rotor bearings, thrust bearings and is suitable for the oil injection system as it has proven to run cleaner than other oils and is an excellent choice for rotary apex seals, corner seals, and side seals.
Mazda makes a statement in the Owner’s Manual not to use synthetic oils in a rotary engine, why do you say that it is OK?
Royal Purple has performed seal compatibility testing on the components used in a rotary with excellent results, including older rotary engine seals dating back to the Cosmo. Royal Purple’s Technical Services Manager David Canitz has been an owner and racer of rotary engine cars and has used synthetic motor oils in rotaries since 1985 with excellent results. He has been trying to find an answer to this Mazda statement for the last 18 years.
In the early development of synthetic oils decades ago, there were purportedly some seal compatibility issues. Today’s synthetic oils do not have the compatibility issues of the old oils. There is no substantiated evidence of seal compatibility issues with Royal Purple.
Here are some facts:
The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.
MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.
Royal Purple Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for ten plus years with excellent results.
Royal Purple Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomers, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.
I heard that synthetic oil doesn't burn like mineral based oils and will coat the inside of the engine with deposits.
If this was a problem with synthetic motor oils in general, then all internal combustion engines using a ‘synthetic’ would experience increased deposits on internal surfaces. The opposite is actually the norm.
Conventional four cycle motor oils will typically leave deposits of carbon and ash when injected into the rotary apex seal, corner seal, and side seal areas. Royal Purple’s motor oil actually burns cleaner due to the synthetic base stock being free of contamination and many of the additives being ‘ashless’. This may not be true for all synthetics but Royal Purple has been proven to work extremely well in rotary engines.
Royal Purple’s formulation of synthetic hydrocarbon motor oil does burn at the nominal combustion temperatures experienced in both street and racing applications, whether normally aspirated, turbocharged, or supercharged. (500 – 1700° F idle to race rpms typical combustion temps)
Will the synthetic oil effect the oil seals?
No. Royal Purple’s Motor Oil is fully compatible with the elastomers found in rotary engines as well as more conventional piston engines. The oil seals, housing seals and other elastomers used in rotary engines typically consist of Buna N, Nitriles, Neoprene, or Viton materials which are also commonly found in piston engine cars.
Rotary Engines
Can Royal Purple Motor Oil be used in a rotary engine?
Yes. A rotary engine is a modified four cycle engine that recommends the use of an API licensed motor oil for street applications.
More information and FAQs on lubrication of Rotary Engines:
In a rotary engine, the oil lubricates the eccentric shaft bearings, thrust needle bearings and rotor bearings similar to a crank and rod bearing of a piston engine as well as being injected into the combustion chambers to lubricate the apex seals, corner seals, and side seals helping to create the sealing mechanism doing the equivalent job of the piston rings.
Royal Purple provides outstanding protection for the e-shaft, rotor bearings, thrust bearings and is suitable for the oil injection system as it has proven to run cleaner than other oils and is an excellent choice for rotary apex seals, corner seals, and side seals.
Mazda makes a statement in the Owner’s Manual not to use synthetic oils in a rotary engine, why do you say that it is OK?
Royal Purple has performed seal compatibility testing on the components used in a rotary with excellent results, including older rotary engine seals dating back to the Cosmo. Royal Purple’s Technical Services Manager David Canitz has been an owner and racer of rotary engine cars and has used synthetic motor oils in rotaries since 1985 with excellent results. He has been trying to find an answer to this Mazda statement for the last 18 years.
In the early development of synthetic oils decades ago, there were purportedly some seal compatibility issues. Today’s synthetic oils do not have the compatibility issues of the old oils. There is no substantiated evidence of seal compatibility issues with Royal Purple.
Here are some facts:
The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.
MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.
Royal Purple Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for ten plus years with excellent results.
Royal Purple Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomers, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.
I heard that synthetic oil doesn't burn like mineral based oils and will coat the inside of the engine with deposits.
If this was a problem with synthetic motor oils in general, then all internal combustion engines using a ‘synthetic’ would experience increased deposits on internal surfaces. The opposite is actually the norm.
Conventional four cycle motor oils will typically leave deposits of carbon and ash when injected into the rotary apex seal, corner seal, and side seal areas. Royal Purple’s motor oil actually burns cleaner due to the synthetic base stock being free of contamination and many of the additives being ‘ashless’. This may not be true for all synthetics but Royal Purple has been proven to work extremely well in rotary engines.
Royal Purple’s formulation of synthetic hydrocarbon motor oil does burn at the nominal combustion temperatures experienced in both street and racing applications, whether normally aspirated, turbocharged, or supercharged. (500 – 1700° F idle to race rpms typical combustion temps)
Will the synthetic oil effect the oil seals?
No. Royal Purple’s Motor Oil is fully compatible with the elastomers found in rotary engines as well as more conventional piston engines. The oil seals, housing seals and other elastomers used in rotary engines typically consist of Buna N, Nitriles, Neoprene, or Viton materials which are also commonly found in piston engine cars.
Last edited by nycgps; 09-04-2006 at 09:50 AM.
09-04-2006, 09:51 AM
#142
Registered User
Look I am not advocating the use of any particular brand or type of oil,that is the owner's choice.I am just trying to establish fact and eliminate fiction where possible.I have attached pages from my 1987RX7 Owners Manual,1993RX-7 Owners Manual and my 2005 RX8 Owners Manual.
From these it is clear that in North America, synthetic and/or non minerals oils were prohibited by Mazda in RX7s,but no such prohibition exists in the RX8 manual.No TSB has been issued at this time for RX8s in North America.(yes I am aware of Australia and Europe)
From these it is clear that in North America, synthetic and/or non minerals oils were prohibited by Mazda in RX7s,but no such prohibition exists in the RX8 manual.No TSB has been issued at this time for RX8s in North America.(yes I am aware of Australia and Europe)
09-04-2006, 03:13 PM
#146
Lubricious
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Originally Posted by Gomez
Let me throw this out there for discussion....
In the last few years Mazda Japan have pulled down a large number of failed USDM Renesis engines. It's reasonable to suggest that the knowledge they have gained from the strip down of these engines has led (in some part at least) to the current RX-8 recall.
They would have seen the carbon build up. By testing the carbon samples they could easily ascertain the oil base used in each engine. A crapload of testing would have been done before Mazda sent out this recall, they don't recall ***** nilly. I'm sure they have carried out laboratory testing of this carbon. Let me suggest that the results they found pointed the finger of blame at synthetics. Some synthetics, not all. Not RP...we all know that is Gods Oil.
Some of the engines pulled down did not ever have synthetic in them, but significant numbers of them did. What do Mazda do? They warn other markets about the "danger" of synthetic usage. Weird American liability laws preclude them from doing it in the USA. They carry out a recall to fix affected engines in the USA and reflash the PCM to provide an increased MOP output. This increase lifts the compression back up to spec and the improved combustion reduces the carbon build up.
Just a theory.....
In the last few years Mazda Japan have pulled down a large number of failed USDM Renesis engines. It's reasonable to suggest that the knowledge they have gained from the strip down of these engines has led (in some part at least) to the current RX-8 recall.
They would have seen the carbon build up. By testing the carbon samples they could easily ascertain the oil base used in each engine. A crapload of testing would have been done before Mazda sent out this recall, they don't recall ***** nilly. I'm sure they have carried out laboratory testing of this carbon. Let me suggest that the results they found pointed the finger of blame at synthetics. Some synthetics, not all. Not RP...we all know that is Gods Oil.
Some of the engines pulled down did not ever have synthetic in them, but significant numbers of them did. What do Mazda do? They warn other markets about the "danger" of synthetic usage. Weird American liability laws preclude them from doing it in the USA. They carry out a recall to fix affected engines in the USA and reflash the PCM to provide an increased MOP output. This increase lifts the compression back up to spec and the improved combustion reduces the carbon build up.
Just a theory.....
Maybe both situations are equally efficacious?
09-05-2006, 11:51 PM
#147
2005 Black RX-8 GT 6M
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Either way stick with 5W-30. I have switched to dino 5W-30 in the US this last oil change and already noticed better idle and mechanical smoothness.
09-06-2006, 08:59 AM
#149
Coming thru in waves...
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Originally Posted by nycgps
I think it has nothing to do with dino or synth. 5w30 is better for this engine than 5w20.
ITs just sad that Mazda gotta follow excatly what Ford said. including Oils. At least in the N.A market. (Thats why its 5w30 for the rest of the world)
ITs just sad that Mazda gotta follow excatly what Ford said. including Oils. At least in the N.A market. (Thats why its 5w30 for the rest of the world)
09-06-2006, 10:55 AM
#150
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Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer
Did anyone ever poll "The New Engine Club" guys what type of oil they been using?
New Engine at 28K miles.
'Course I'm in Vegas where apparantly some freakinsh combination of heat, altitude, humidity, and desert VooDoo causes the engines to self-destruct.
-Kenn