New Shell Gas?
04-24-2009, 08:38 AM
#201
The way gas if formulated depends on what state, or even county, you buy it in. It's all a matter of Federal & State laws. Unfortunately for me, all gas here contains ethanol due to state law. This is a farm state and the legislators wanted to pander to the farm vote.
04-24-2009, 08:38 AM
#202
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I'm just astonished. I have no loyalty to any (name) brand, but will buy from whomever is the cheapest at the time. I'm still averaging between 230-250 mpg regardless of brand.
04-24-2009, 08:56 AM
#203
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AND, now that it's warmed back up some, I'm back in the 260-270 miles per tank range (20mpg, city driving, on average), even using Speedway (10% ethanol) fuel. I'm going on a trip to Atlanta this weekend, and I fully expect to be in the 300-320 miles per tank range off of any 'ol truck stop fuel along the way...
04-24-2009, 01:58 PM
#205
Ditto!!
AND, now that it's warmed back up some, I'm back in the 260-270 miles per tank range (20mpg, city driving, on average), even using Speedway (10% ethanol) fuel. I'm going on a trip to Atlanta this weekend, and I fully expect to be in the 300-320 miles per tank range off of any 'ol truck stop fuel along the way...
AND, now that it's warmed back up some, I'm back in the 260-270 miles per tank range (20mpg, city driving, on average), even using Speedway (10% ethanol) fuel. I'm going on a trip to Atlanta this weekend, and I fully expect to be in the 300-320 miles per tank range off of any 'ol truck stop fuel along the way...
Last edited by AJ's Shinka; 04-24-2009 at 02:03 PM.
04-24-2009, 08:49 PM
#210
Gasolines contain small amounts less than .1% volume of compounds with sulfur, nitrogen and oxygen atoms in their structures (excluding added oxygenates).
Refinning destroys many nitrogen and sulfur containing compounds but some survive.
Therfore gasoline contains nitrogen compounds and Shell is using a marketing gimmick.
to promote their product.
http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...w_complete.pdf
Refinning destroys many nitrogen and sulfur containing compounds but some survive.
Therfore gasoline contains nitrogen compounds and Shell is using a marketing gimmick.
to promote their product.
http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...w_complete.pdf
04-24-2009, 08:57 PM
#211
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It's not just Nitrogen they've added. Nitrogen is a part of their "patented cleaning system designed to seek and destroy engine “gunk” (carbon deposits)" according to their claims.
"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines."
"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines."
04-24-2009, 09:04 PM
#212
It's not just Nitrogen they've added. Nitrogen is a part of their "patented cleaning system designed to seek and destroy engine “gunk” (carbon deposits)" according to their claims.
"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines."
"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines."
This is marketing hype
"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines."
Take out new fuel. Nitrogen does have that affect and is present in all gasolines.
Once again marketing hype.
Have you ever taken advertising or marketing classes?
04-25-2009, 08:42 AM
#213
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Every gasoline brand is mixed with roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases, by the fuel injection system.
This mystery mixture is called AIR.
This mystery mixture is called AIR.
04-25-2009, 12:05 PM
#214
Yes, that why someone asked earlier... Why would you add more nitrogen into the system when it comes out as NOx or No2 which they are trying to control for green house affect.
04-26-2009, 11:37 AM
#215
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I'm surprised to see that Sunoco (USA) is not listed as a Top Tier Gasoline Retailer. I was thinking about trying it - but
after seeing this.I expected to see BP / Amaco on that list too
.
Last edited by rx8cited; 04-26-2009 at 11:45 AM.
04-26-2009, 12:24 PM
#216
to me, it doesnt fuxking matter.
with nyc slow *** traffic(even worst since bloomberg is in the office, thanks to his bike lane and not fixing roads policy) i get shitty mpg anyway.
on my way out there are mobil and bp. both mostly have the same price, but i usually fill up at night just to be sure i will fill up at the cheaper station (every penny counts!)
with nyc slow *** traffic(even worst since bloomberg is in the office, thanks to his bike lane and not fixing roads policy) i get shitty mpg anyway.
on my way out there are mobil and bp. both mostly have the same price, but i usually fill up at night just to be sure i will fill up at the cheaper station (every penny counts!)
Last edited by nycgps; 04-26-2009 at 12:27 PM.
04-26-2009, 04:36 PM
#217
I'm surprised to see that Sunoco (USA) is not listed as a Top Tier Gasoline Retailer. I was thinking about trying it - but
after seeing this.I expected to see BP / Amaco on that list too
.
04-26-2009, 07:32 PM
#218
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I'm surprised to see that Sunoco (USA) is not listed as a Top Tier Gasoline Retailer. I was thinking about trying it - but
after seeing this.I expected to see BP / Amaco on that list too
.
04-26-2009, 10:51 PM
#219
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if (you don't give a f**k about Top Tier Gasoline)
proceed to reading the next post 
;
else ;Top Tier Gasoline may be a marketing gimmick .... , it sure does not sound like it from what I've read below. Or maybe I've been just been sucked in 
.
Top Tier Detergent Gasoline - "In 1994 four auto manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) recognized the gasoline marketers were not putting enough detergents in their gasoline. They also recognized the U.S. EPA was not mandating a high enough minimum standard of detergents. In fact, after the EPA set a minimum standard gasoline producers reduced the amount of detergents in their gas because the standard was so low.
As a result vehicle owners were suffering reduced engine power, reduced fuel efficiency,
increased driving upsets (rough idle, stalling and surge), decreased acceleration and increased emissions.
These four automakers decided to do something about this problem because they wanted vehicle owners to have a more pleasurable experience with the vehicles they manufactured. They created their own class of gasoline called 'Top Tier Detergent Gasoline', containing a higher level of detergents, meant to keep vehicle owners happier with better engine performance and wear."
So what, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota created a "marketing gimmick" and are collecting payments from the gasoline companies that want pay them to be on the list ...... I doubt it.
A few references in this article supporting it.
about.com article
USA Today: Long article .... includes Ford, not in TT coalition,
: recommends BP. 
.
No signs of BP/Amaco or Sunoco in that September 2007 fool.com article's list.
I'm personally not going to take any chances and will avoid any gas that's not on the list unless it's an emergency, since there are so many locally available choices on the list.
Now if I could just find another good marketing deal to wean
me off my 5% off Shell gas credit card, I'd love to do a comparison test with a different Top Tier gas.
end
.Top Tier Detergent Gasoline - "In 1994 four auto manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) recognized the gasoline marketers were not putting enough detergents in their gasoline. They also recognized the U.S. EPA was not mandating a high enough minimum standard of detergents. In fact, after the EPA set a minimum standard gasoline producers reduced the amount of detergents in their gas because the standard was so low.
As a result vehicle owners were suffering reduced engine power, reduced fuel efficiency,
increased driving upsets (rough idle, stalling and surge), decreased acceleration and increased emissions.
These four automakers decided to do something about this problem because they wanted vehicle owners to have a more pleasurable experience with the vehicles they manufactured. They created their own class of gasoline called 'Top Tier Detergent Gasoline', containing a higher level of detergents, meant to keep vehicle owners happier with better engine performance and wear."
So what, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota created a "marketing gimmick" and are collecting payments from the gasoline companies that want pay them to be on the list ...... I doubt it.
A few references in this article supporting it.
about.com article
USA Today: Long article .... includes Ford, not in TT coalition,
: recommends BP. .No signs of BP/Amaco or Sunoco in that September 2007 fool.com article's list.
I'm personally not going to take any chances and will avoid any gas that's not on the list unless it's an emergency, since there are so many locally available choices on the list.
Now if I could just find another good marketing deal to wean
me off my 5% off Shell gas credit card, I'd love to do a comparison test with a different Top Tier gas.
04-26-2009, 11:08 PM
#220
Metatron
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The test is real, the results are real, if you have the equipment you can prove it for yourself - how is this a 'gimmick'?
The long standing test for engine deposit control is the 'BMW' test - the intake valves are weighed, then run in a real engine for a long time under load, then re-weighed.
They must have gained 'less-than-x-milligrams' of gunk.
The new Shell gas will actually remove gunk from an already gunked up valve.......far exceeding the BMW requirements to pass the test.
Do you see any competitors saying 'taint so' or 'just a gimmick'? No, they have the equipment, they've done the comparison, they know the results and they are wishing it would go away.
(I have been refining oil, gasoline, diesel and jet fuel for about twenty five years and I would be more than happy to show anyone around my refinery if you are in the far North sometime.)
S
The long standing test for engine deposit control is the 'BMW' test - the intake valves are weighed, then run in a real engine for a long time under load, then re-weighed.
They must have gained 'less-than-x-milligrams' of gunk.
The new Shell gas will actually remove gunk from an already gunked up valve.......far exceeding the BMW requirements to pass the test.
Do you see any competitors saying 'taint so' or 'just a gimmick'? No, they have the equipment, they've done the comparison, they know the results and they are wishing it would go away.
(I have been refining oil, gasoline, diesel and jet fuel for about twenty five years and I would be more than happy to show anyone around my refinery if you are in the far North sometime.)
S
04-26-2009, 11:20 PM
#221
Top Tier is a marketing gimmick in that if your fuel meets certain requirements, you are allowed to join the consortium and use the Top Tier sticker on your pump. That dosn't mean that those that are not apart of the consortium don't meet the same requirements.
Quote from the USA Today article:
Bunk, say some. "I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.
"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues. What does he buy? "I'm not brand-conscious. I go for price, as long as it doesn't have ethanol." He says ethanol cuts mileage 1% to 2% because it has a lower energy content than pure gasoline.
"I really look at these commercials and wonder, 'How do these guys justify this?' I don't see the benefits," says John Frala, who teaches auto mechanics at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif. He says he's never seen a breakdown due to engine deposits.
"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.
Top Tier is about additives in the fuel. All of the major brands have sufficient additives to keep the fuel system clean.
Quote from the USA Today article:
Bunk, say some. "I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.
"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues. What does he buy? "I'm not brand-conscious. I go for price, as long as it doesn't have ethanol." He says ethanol cuts mileage 1% to 2% because it has a lower energy content than pure gasoline.
"I really look at these commercials and wonder, 'How do these guys justify this?' I don't see the benefits," says John Frala, who teaches auto mechanics at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif. He says he's never seen a breakdown due to engine deposits.
"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.
Top Tier is about additives in the fuel. All of the major brands have sufficient additives to keep the fuel system clean.
Last edited by alnielsen; 04-26-2009 at 11:23 PM.
04-27-2009, 12:59 AM
#222
Top Tier is a marketing gimmick in that if your fuel meets certain requirements, you are allowed to join the consortium and use the Top Tier sticker on your pump. That dosn't mean that those that are not apart of the consortium don't meet the same requirements.
Quote from the USA Today article:
Bunk, say some. "I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.
"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues. What does he buy? "I'm not brand-conscious. I go for price, as long as it doesn't have ethanol." He says ethanol cuts mileage 1% to 2% because it has a lower energy content than pure gasoline.
"I really look at these commercials and wonder, 'How do these guys justify this?' I don't see the benefits," says John Frala, who teaches auto mechanics at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif. He says he's never seen a breakdown due to engine deposits.
"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.
Top Tier is about additives in the fuel. All of the major brands have sufficient additives to keep the fuel system clean.
Quote from the USA Today article:
Bunk, say some. "I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.
"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues. What does he buy? "I'm not brand-conscious. I go for price, as long as it doesn't have ethanol." He says ethanol cuts mileage 1% to 2% because it has a lower energy content than pure gasoline.
"I really look at these commercials and wonder, 'How do these guys justify this?' I don't see the benefits," says John Frala, who teaches auto mechanics at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif. He says he's never seen a breakdown due to engine deposits.
"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.
Top Tier is about additives in the fuel. All of the major brands have sufficient additives to keep the fuel system clean.
but not so major, i dont think so
When it comes to cleaning agents in gasoline, fed requirements are kinda low. They cut it in 1/2 a while ago to save gas company cost isnt it?
04-27-2009, 01:51 PM
#223
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does Shell working on carbon better (i basis this on others knowing more than i) out weight the 10% alcohol? i can get conoco 100% gas or shell with 10% alcohol.
04-27-2009, 10:03 PM
#224
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Are you asking about Shell with 10% ethanol vs Conoco w/o ethanol ...... I'd avoid the ethanol and go with Conoco if you're car does not show any preference.
04-29-2009, 11:26 AM
#225
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I filled the tank with 92 octane v power nitrogen enriched.
Drove about 200 miles in one trip and still have a few gallons left. (light went on just as i got home.)
This 200 miles included probly an hour or so of hard driving.
So far I am feeling good about the fuel economy with this new fuel.
Drove about 200 miles in one trip and still have a few gallons left. (light went on just as i got home.)
This 200 miles included probly an hour or so of hard driving.
So far I am feeling good about the fuel economy with this new fuel.