Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Hey guys,

So as of lately, I've noticed that my car has been having some trouble with warm start ups. Usually the car will start on the second try, but the first try seems to take a while to start up or not at all. Before, it didn't happen very often, but it's becoming more common for this to happen. I decided to stop premixing(idemitsu) and since then, I've yet to have a difficult start on warm start ups. Anyone else have this happen to them before?

When Premixing, I go by the 1/2oz for every gallon rule. I've also changed to an optima red top battery a month ago, and a BHR ignition kit about half a year ago with new plugs. There's no power loss that I've experienced, and I'm a little paranoid that it might be a sign of low compression. Currently have 105k miles on the odo.

Thoughts?

dozer

iTrader: (3)

your starters going out. get the newer updated one.

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

You know, that's crossed my mind so many times, but the car already got the updated starter recall on it done. Or is there another updated starter I don't know about?

dozer

iTrader: (3)

i doubt it could be anything else, hard start ups while its warm usually means your starters going out. maybe they gave you a faulty one...

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, it does sound the starter is weak. Hmm... welp, time to go look for another one somewhere I guess.

PeteInLongBeach

It would be difficult to diagnose a bad starter online. If it seems to be turning the engine over at about the same speed as before, it's probably OK. There was only 1 starter upgrade, so you have it.

Difficult hot starts are a common symptom of low compression. At your mileage, this would not be unlikely. Get a compression test before throwing more money at guesses. This will also tell you something about the health of your starter, as the test records the RPM when on the starter.

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the advice. I will do that before throwing money at a new starter. I can tell you though, that only sometimes does the starter sound quick, like 2-3 secs. but most of the time, takes like 3-4 secs. to start up.

flyinglow

Also, do you know if you have any of the ECU flashes done or which version that you are on? Just trying to help you think of things starting with FOR FREE first that could possible resolve your issue. Also, which series spark plugs are you using (RE7C-L) or the (RE6C-L)? The RE6C-L's help with the hot start problems...

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

All flashes have been done prior to purchase. As for the spark plugs, I'm not sure which actually, but they were purchased on ebay from a reputable seller.

flyinglow

Just to eliminate the easy things, check the numbers on the plugs themselves to see which model you have. Mazda specifically moved to the RE6C-L plugs to help with the hot start problems. Early RX8's came with the RE7's or higher and there are still several reputable sellers/websites out there that list the RE7 as the direct replacement. If you do have the RE6's, then we can work on helping you troubleshoot whatelse it could be from there. The trailing plugs are typically the RE9B-T's.

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

hmm, but even www.finishlineperformance.com still sells RE7C-L Are you sure?

flyinglow

Yup, for those that went in for the TSB's and recalls, Mazda most likely changed the plugs over. Mine had the 6's in there went I replaced mine, but I replaced mine before I knew of this and put the 7's in. http://www.mazdatrix.com/8ignition.htm

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Interesting... I'm pretty sure my car is equipped with the 7's now. But my starter sounds weak nonetheless, so I think I'll still replace that, too.

Thanks everyone for your input

PeteInLongBeach

It appears you are mistaking the time it takes the engine to catch, versus the speed the starter turns the engine.

Starter speed is not evalutated in seconds to start up, it is evaluated in RPM it spins the motor. There will be a readout of this when you get the compression check. If the starter is spinning the motor at sufficient RPM but the motor is still slow to start, the problem lies elsewhere.

The seconds it takes the engine to start up is a function of state-of-tune, fuel/emissions systems, battery & starter condition, and overall engine condition including compression.

PeteInLongBeach

This is often misunderstood. The 6 range plugs are actually a hotter specification than the 7 range. Mazda's introduction of the hotter 6 plugs was to address poor starting in cars prone to plug fouling due to colder climates, shorter trips, conservative driving, etc. The 6 plug will tend to burn off carbon better, which helps avoid fouling.

Cars which are driven in moderate climates, with limited short trips and occasional redlines, should not be prone to excessive plug fouling, and should have no need to use the hotter plug. It will not help hot starts under normal conditions.

The hotter 6 plug will erode and require replacement sooner than the cooler 7 plug, so it should only be used in the aforementioned conditions when fouling is a problem. Mazda did not "move" to the 6 plug - it became an option for the above reasons. The 7 plug is still the standard under most conditions.

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Wow. Thanks for the clarification!

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Well I'll be damned. Paul over at rotorsport just called me and told me that my car still has the original starter..... The owner before me has some s'plainin to do!!! lol!!!

Edit: Just picked up my car, and Dozer was right on the spot about the starter. Compression readings were:

#1
7.8, 7.2, 7.5 @ 318 RPM

#2
7.6, 7.5, 7.6 @ 318 RPM



Not bad for an 04 for 105k miles drove back to work with a FAT smile on my face.

xexok

Damn! 318 rpm? I thought a good starter would do about 250 rpm....

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

That's what Paul said too. He was also surprised at the 300+ rpm lol

kevinande

Thanks for the update. Glad to see it was something other than compression. You are going to continue to premix right?

Renesis555

iTrader: (8)

Indeed I am.