Need Data: Oil Temp & Coolant Temp
05-12-2010, 09:24 AM
#51
9K, you damn n00b! 
I can't believe you didn't transfer those foam over for the Koyo Rad.
IMO, just MY opinion ok? Koyo rad is not that bad. what most people failed to do was they failed to transfer the foam over (or buy their own foam at home depot and epoxy it on the new rad.
In case you wonder how the foam should go (some ppl threw their old stock rad away without looking),
The picture above is what the Mazdaspeed Radiator look like. Notice where the foams are located.
but I got a better solution hohohohoho ~~~
the left is my new Radiator, Its still made by Koyo (T_T) but with Knight Sports Spec.
the right is the used Koyo Rad that has been sitting in my basement for 2+ years.
The core is almost 50% larger (53mm vs 38mm), with a Z flow 3 pass design. This thing is a beast.
Its 100% bolt on but not really, cuz the core is much much thicker so I would say its about 95% bolt on ... it will fit but you have to move things around to fit it.
but seriously, I think its the best radiator so far (2 times the cost of Mazda Competition radiator tho)
But Knight Sports use this radiator for their Super Charger cars so its more than enough for stock cars.
It includes everything you need for installation. and a Japanese Manual of course (which I only understand about 1/2 of what it saids, lol) but its pretty much the same as taking out/installing the stock radiator.
I had Ron Davis/Mazmart Radiator before this, why did I changed it ? well ... it was leaking slowly ... I have to change it.
I can't believe you didn't transfer those foam over for the Koyo Rad.
IMO, just MY opinion ok? Koyo rad is not that bad. what most people failed to do was they failed to transfer the foam over (or buy their own foam at home depot and epoxy it on the new rad.
In case you wonder how the foam should go (some ppl threw their old stock rad away without looking),
The picture above is what the Mazdaspeed Radiator look like. Notice where the foams are located.
but I got a better solution hohohohoho ~~~
the left is my new Radiator, Its still made by Koyo (T_T) but with Knight Sports Spec.
the right is the used Koyo Rad that has been sitting in my basement for 2+ years.
The core is almost 50% larger (53mm vs 38mm), with a Z flow 3 pass design. This thing is a beast.
Its 100% bolt on but not really, cuz the core is much much thicker so I would say its about 95% bolt on ... it will fit but you have to move things around to fit it.
but seriously, I think its the best radiator so far (2 times the cost of Mazda Competition radiator tho)
But Knight Sports use this radiator for their Super Charger cars so its more than enough for stock cars.
It includes everything you need for installation. and a Japanese Manual of course (which I only understand about 1/2 of what it saids, lol) but its pretty much the same as taking out/installing the stock radiator.
I had Ron Davis/Mazmart Radiator before this, why did I changed it ? well ... it was leaking slowly ... I have to change it.
Last edited by nycgps; 05-12-2010 at 09:32 AM.
05-12-2010, 09:36 AM
#52
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05-12-2010, 09:53 AM
#53
At first I thought it could be the coolant from the overflow tank that came all the way down. So I left it as is and I was like, maybe its time for me to try something else !
never thought about warranty cuz like I said, it could be just coolant from the overflow tank(I wasn't sure), 2nd is that even its leaking, there is a chance that it might be cause by road debris or whatever. if it leaks on the first year or something yea I will ask for warranty. but I got it for more than a year so ... call me silly but I think thats pretty fair.
after I took the Rad out, I wipe it clean, put it on a piece of card board for 2 days, fill the rad with some water (I just warp the lower coolant neck with food warp with like 20 rubber bands to create a seal), came back, the card board is wet at that area. so yeah, it has a leak somewhere (I can't find any cracks or marks)
Warranty ? I still never thought about it. but I think I should let Paul know.
Last edited by nycgps; 05-12-2010 at 10:01 AM.
05-12-2010, 09:58 AM
#54
maybe not in Arizona but elsewhere people also have to watch "overcooling" in the winter months. Radiators with much larger cooling capacity once installed gives you no flexability. It is what it is. Its possible it can do too good of a job?
This past winter we had a long discussion about getting the oil up to temp sooner after a cold start. The install of a better radiator may excerbate that?
With my secondary radiator set up after the temps got into the 40-50 range I could not get my coolant over 165F. Period. Whn i disconnected it (very easy to do -just disconnect the hoses and mate them to each other) my temps then went to the 180F range. 190f in the city.
I'm thinking a better radiator may keep the temps too low in the winter? Anyone with experience out there on this?
This past winter we had a long discussion about getting the oil up to temp sooner after a cold start. The install of a better radiator may excerbate that?
With my secondary radiator set up after the temps got into the 40-50 range I could not get my coolant over 165F. Period. Whn i disconnected it (very easy to do -just disconnect the hoses and mate them to each other) my temps then went to the 180F range. 190f in the city.
I'm thinking a better radiator may keep the temps too low in the winter? Anyone with experience out there on this?
05-12-2010, 10:00 AM
#55
maybe not in Arizona but elsewhere people also have to watch "overcooling" in the winter months. Radiators with much larger cooling capacity once installed gives you no flexability. It is what it is. Its possible it can do too good of a job?
This past winter we had a long discussion about getting the oil up to temp sooner after a cold start. The install of a better radiator may excerbate that?
With my secondary radiator set up after the temps got into the 40-50 range I could not get my coolant over 165F. Period. Whn i disconnected it (very easy to do -just disconnect the hoses and mate them to each other) my temps then went to the 180F range. 190f in the city.
I'm thinking a better radiator may keep the temps too low in the winter? Anyone with experience out there on this?
This past winter we had a long discussion about getting the oil up to temp sooner after a cold start. The install of a better radiator may excerbate that?
With my secondary radiator set up after the temps got into the 40-50 range I could not get my coolant over 165F. Period. Whn i disconnected it (very easy to do -just disconnect the hoses and mate them to each other) my temps then went to the 180F range. 190f in the city.
I'm thinking a better radiator may keep the temps too low in the winter? Anyone with experience out there on this?
it takes longer yes, but its not hard to archive
it might have a lot to do with Stop & go Traffic in NYC ?
Last edited by nycgps; 05-12-2010 at 10:15 AM.
05-20-2010, 03:29 AM
#62
Yes Flash you are right as I said the canyon runs are harder on my caeh under tray r than the track or autox is. But since I do many more canyons runs than track runs then I would like to get things situated.
I did some poking around today and the gap between the bottom of the radiator and the undertray is significant and I did not tranfer the foam from the factory rad to the koyo. So I will have to seal that up. I also removed my factory intake and tray and I see what Eric is talking about I'm not sure how air flows through the rad with all the crap there.
I may have to get the AEM even though I hate the way it looks and the water issues.
I did some poking around today and the gap between the bottom of the radiator and the undertray is significant and I did not tranfer the foam from the factory rad to the koyo. So I will have to seal that up. I also removed my factory intake and tray and I see what Eric is talking about I'm not sure how air flows through the rad with all the crap there.
I may have to get the AEM even though I hate the way it looks and the water issues.
no foam transfer or fill done?
i think that was the point or issue years ago.. but even with proper sealing the koyo is still way behind stock..
and sorry, getting here late. but lots of fluff in the middle.. send me a pm.. am running the whole mazmart system....
beers
Last edited by swoope; 05-20-2010 at 03:33 AM.
03-06-2011, 12:18 AM
#63
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Okay guys, I bumping this for info. So, last weekend we installed an oil temp gauge in Grungepups' 2007 GT M/T. He has the BHR ignition and a single resonated midpipe, other than that he is stock engine wise. We are using a Prosport premium 60mm gauge and getting the readings from an adapter in the oil pan drain plug location.
Ambient temps at around 50F tonight, he is seeing oil temps of 130-140F (coolant temps of 175F or so) at cruise on the highway, in light traffic. When he stops, at idle, the temps creep up to almost match the coolant temp range at 175-185F.
Now for me, and those who don't know, I have a 2004 M/T with a the Mazmart oil pressure kit, BHR Ignition, BHR midpipe, Cobb tune, Fluidyne single oil cooler w/oil thermostat conversion, SOHN, etc., etc. I am getting oil temps from the filter adapter plate on the return, after the cooler. I have seen oil temps of 240F+ when pushing her hard in 100F degree temps during runs with my Fluidyne unit. But that was in low speed corners and only for a minute or two until speeds increased and the then the temps drop like a rock to normal numbers.
Once warmed up, during normal driving, my oil temps never drop below 165F, even when it was 20F for a period last month. And when I stop, my temps do not creep up much at all, maybe another 10F, but that's it. Do you think the difference is my oil thermostat, increased oil pressure, different oil cooler setup, or is it the location the temps are being read? I think in the pan, grungepup should be seeing higher temps than what he is seeing since that is where the oil is most heat soaked.
Discuss.
Ambient temps at around 50F tonight, he is seeing oil temps of 130-140F (coolant temps of 175F or so) at cruise on the highway, in light traffic. When he stops, at idle, the temps creep up to almost match the coolant temp range at 175-185F.
Now for me, and those who don't know, I have a 2004 M/T with a the Mazmart oil pressure kit, BHR Ignition, BHR midpipe, Cobb tune, Fluidyne single oil cooler w/oil thermostat conversion, SOHN, etc., etc. I am getting oil temps from the filter adapter plate on the return, after the cooler. I have seen oil temps of 240F+ when pushing her hard in 100F degree temps during runs with my Fluidyne unit. But that was in low speed corners and only for a minute or two until speeds increased and the then the temps drop like a rock to normal numbers.
Once warmed up, during normal driving, my oil temps never drop below 165F, even when it was 20F for a period last month. And when I stop, my temps do not creep up much at all, maybe another 10F, but that's it. Do you think the difference is my oil thermostat, increased oil pressure, different oil cooler setup, or is it the location the temps are being read? I think in the pan, grungepup should be seeing higher temps than what he is seeing since that is where the oil is most heat soaked.
Discuss.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 03-06-2011 at 12:21 AM.
03-06-2011, 01:38 AM
#64
Increasing pressure also means you get increased temp. The way you decrease temp and increase pressure is by decreasing volume. Its the law of pressure. Now it does work both ways. When pressure decreases so does temp.
Your running a single oil cooler, sohn adapter, Cobb Tune, and different lines. Im not really sure what else. I remember correctly the only problem I see here with resolving this is that you installed this all at once. So trouble shooting would be much harder than if we had temps in between parts. I don't know what tuning changes you have made. I also don't know what ratio of fluid you are using in the radiator. I know your oil is 0-40w which is heavier oil so you have increased pressure with a heavier oil. That would be one cause of your higher temps. I have only ever peaked at 235deg oil temps once. It was 104 deg that day, no wind, and the track temp was 118. That was after 10 laps at WOT. I remember I hadn't changed my radiator fluid at the time though, so I stopped immediatly. I changed the radiator fluid to be more properly calibrated at 80 percent water, 20 percent anti-freeze and dropped my temps by 15 degrees.
Keep in mind that along with the increased pressure in your oil system, you also have increased pressure in your radiator. Anti-freeze is 3 times heavier than water, 18 times thicker than water, and is 1/3 less capable of heat transfer. So if your running 50/50 instead of 20/80 or 25/75 then your over heating issue could also be from that. You have no need for anything more than 25/75 which is protection to zero degrees. If your want run 30/70 and you will have protection to -6 degrees. But I run 20/80 in all my vehicles and never once have I had a problem. Even when it froze and snowed during the super bowl.
This is a common statement found in manuals for aviation and also made by engineers:
"Temperature drops ranging from 10 - 15 F are typically obtained by decreasing the mix from 50/50 down to 25/75 or perhaps 20/80. It is not possible to give precise numbers here because of uncertainty in knowing exactly what the initial mix was, and so forth."
Your running a single oil cooler, sohn adapter, Cobb Tune, and different lines. Im not really sure what else. I remember correctly the only problem I see here with resolving this is that you installed this all at once. So trouble shooting would be much harder than if we had temps in between parts. I don't know what tuning changes you have made. I also don't know what ratio of fluid you are using in the radiator. I know your oil is 0-40w which is heavier oil so you have increased pressure with a heavier oil. That would be one cause of your higher temps. I have only ever peaked at 235deg oil temps once. It was 104 deg that day, no wind, and the track temp was 118. That was after 10 laps at WOT. I remember I hadn't changed my radiator fluid at the time though, so I stopped immediatly. I changed the radiator fluid to be more properly calibrated at 80 percent water, 20 percent anti-freeze and dropped my temps by 15 degrees.
Keep in mind that along with the increased pressure in your oil system, you also have increased pressure in your radiator. Anti-freeze is 3 times heavier than water, 18 times thicker than water, and is 1/3 less capable of heat transfer. So if your running 50/50 instead of 20/80 or 25/75 then your over heating issue could also be from that. You have no need for anything more than 25/75 which is protection to zero degrees. If your want run 30/70 and you will have protection to -6 degrees. But I run 20/80 in all my vehicles and never once have I had a problem. Even when it froze and snowed during the super bowl.
This is a common statement found in manuals for aviation and also made by engineers:
"Temperature drops ranging from 10 - 15 F are typically obtained by decreasing the mix from 50/50 down to 25/75 or perhaps 20/80. It is not possible to give precise numbers here because of uncertainty in knowing exactly what the initial mix was, and so forth."
Last edited by DocBeech; 03-07-2011 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Posted from my phone, broken touch screen doesnt always make for good posts lol
03-06-2011, 08:19 AM
#65
well ---if he has 145F oil temps --then thats too cool.
Is his oil coolers warm/hot to touch? All the way across?
His oil cooler thermostat may not be working correctly, his oil bypass (oem) may be dumping too much cooled oil?
In thinking about all this---the redesign of the S2 model in which there is a cover over the oil pan, this may be to help keep the oil at temps during the cooler months?
If you are running up to 240--then that is too hot. If it is just a spike and you are running synthetic oil then that should be ok? Remember were you are measuring the oil temp is AFTER it has been cooled. So you have to add another 20-30 degrees to your temps to get your real oil temp. See the need for synthetic?
I bet your friend has a good bit of the white milky stuff in the pan?
OD
Is his oil coolers warm/hot to touch? All the way across?
His oil cooler thermostat may not be working correctly, his oil bypass (oem) may be dumping too much cooled oil?
In thinking about all this---the redesign of the S2 model in which there is a cover over the oil pan, this may be to help keep the oil at temps during the cooler months?
If you are running up to 240--then that is too hot. If it is just a spike and you are running synthetic oil then that should be ok? Remember were you are measuring the oil temp is AFTER it has been cooled. So you have to add another 20-30 degrees to your temps to get your real oil temp. See the need for synthetic?
I bet your friend has a good bit of the white milky stuff in the pan?
OD
Last edited by olddragger; 03-06-2011 at 08:22 AM.
03-06-2011, 09:01 AM
#66
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A year ago when several people did the oil pressure mod, someone said they thought that change alone increased low oil temps. Is that still the thought on the OPM? (this was when cold temps were being discussed, not any comment on high temps)
03-06-2011, 11:24 AM
#67
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Doc, I'm not saying I am having a problem. I am happy where my oil and coolant temps are. I am more worried about his low oil temps. The time my oil temps went to 240F was under extreme conditions and I immediately let off and cruised around until the temps dropped. Other member that day with gauges were seeing temp well above 200F as well. In my radiator, I am running distilled water and water wetter and I sealed everything around the radiator (made a diff actually). Even during the mid of summer my oil tests looked good so I think the Mobil1 0W-40 and the Rotella T6 I was running off and on did well.
OD, today I will check his coolers after a drive and see how hot they are. I know my Fluidyne is untouchable after a long drive.
OD, today I will check his coolers after a drive and see how hot they are. I know my Fluidyne is untouchable after a long drive.
03-08-2011, 07:14 AM
#71
well ---if he has 145F oil temps --then thats too cool.
Is his oil coolers warm/hot to touch? All the way across?
His oil cooler thermostat may not be working correctly, his oil bypass (oem) may be dumping too much cooled oil?
In thinking about all this---the redesign of the S2 model in which there is a cover over the oil pan, this may be to help keep the oil at temps during the cooler months?
If you are running up to 240--then that is too hot. If it is just a spike and you are running synthetic oil then that should be ok? Remember were you are measuring the oil temp is AFTER it has been cooled. So you have to add another 20-30 degrees to your temps to get your real oil temp. See the need for synthetic?
I bet your friend has a good bit of the white milky stuff in the pan?
OD
Is his oil coolers warm/hot to touch? All the way across?
His oil cooler thermostat may not be working correctly, his oil bypass (oem) may be dumping too much cooled oil?
In thinking about all this---the redesign of the S2 model in which there is a cover over the oil pan, this may be to help keep the oil at temps during the cooler months?
If you are running up to 240--then that is too hot. If it is just a spike and you are running synthetic oil then that should be ok? Remember were you are measuring the oil temp is AFTER it has been cooled. So you have to add another 20-30 degrees to your temps to get your real oil temp. See the need for synthetic?
I bet your friend has a good bit of the white milky stuff in the pan?
OD
While driving at night, 50-60 outside temps, Oil temps never get higher than 160. While driving, it gets down to about 140 and then at lights is quickly rises back to about 160. Water temps stay at 179 on the dot and might go up or down by a degree or 2
And as far as milky stuff, never have had this issue.
03-14-2011, 10:45 PM
#72
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Okay, so last weekend I installed a new oil temp sending unit for my Auber oil temp gauge and I am seeing 175F at cruise where grungepup would see roughly 160F.
So my next question is do you guy think it is because of my increased oil pressure due to the single cooler and the increased pressure or do think it's because I have a 180F oil thermostat?
We will do a cruise together soon and then we will see how our temps compare under load.
So my next question is do you guy think it is because of my increased oil pressure due to the single cooler and the increased pressure or do think it's because I have a 180F oil thermostat?
We will do a cruise together soon and then we will see how our temps compare under load.
08-07-2012, 12:56 PM
#75
Registered
I have a 231 HP / 6 speed Rex Series 1.
However my info is a little late, I read the next temperatures for oil leaving the engine towards the standard twin oil coolers.
Cruising 120 kmh (75 mph):
wheather 15 C (60 F).......oil 85-90 C (185-194 F)
wheather 23 C (74 F).......oil 90-95 C (194-203 F)
Slow traffic:
wheather 25 C (77 F).......oil 95-100 C (203-212 F)
I have a second point measuring my oil temp after leaving the oil coolers, at the oil filter; generally this temperature is 10-14 C (18-25 F) lower.
I can switch between 2 temp. feelers measuring before and after oil cooler on one oil temp. meter.
Last edited by Rudolph; 08-07-2012 at 02:59 PM.