staticlag

So your saying:

Because older rotaries did not like older versions of synthetic oil(who knows what they even put in their engines?), you automatically discount new top quality synthetics from a new and improved engine?

I'm glad more people don't think like you, or else we would be stuck back thinking the world was flat.

Once again,.... what cars are you talking about? Oh,... not the RX8? What synthetic oils caused the damage?,....Umm,.... don't know.....

Certainly sounds like reasonable proof to me

Stereotype....<cough>...... anyone?

16K miles on full synthetic here, going strong....

The so-called benefits of synthetics have been used in Mazda Racing for years...

Nubo

Yep, that should end this debate once and for all :D

ASH8

It is the long term use of synthetics that can cause the problems I mentioned above to the oil contol "O" rings....

If Mazda Racing have been using synthetics for years, the long term use would have little effect as their rotary engine replacement/rebulit would be very often, where O rings and apex seals and many other parts are renewed.

Mazda Australia (which is factory owned) still does not advise the use of synthetics in RX-8 Engines, and we have Mobil1, Castrol, Shell,BP etc etc in synthetics here.

Perhaps the long term use of synthetics may be one of the causes of all the 8 engine failures in recent US heat wave, because the oil does not have the heat protection claimed...
ie, 0W20 in a 110F heat wave. Where you should have at least a 30-40 grade for summer.

Let the debate continue!

staticlag

Synthetic oil is the best thing you can do for your mazda RX8 or any other engine for that matter.

foo77

nevermind

Flop

I wish I lived in Cali - sort of off topic, but thought you'd like to know...

rotarygod

There hasn't been a single engine failure as a result of using synthetics. On the other hand, how many engines have failed that used conventional, not that there is a direct correlation? When are you going to quit spouting off nonsense and actually go out and try it? You have zero proof that it is bad, you have no experience with it, and not a hint of what you are talking about and yet you just can't get off the subject. You don't seem to understand that a racing engine has MORE importance than your street engine in terms of power production and abuse and it is more critical that they make their power. They change their oils more often so they use oils formulated to lubricate better but not last as long. Why not last as long? Because they will change the oil at the end of the race and the oil lasts long enough. It has nothing to do with rebuilding the engine all the time. The team that has a better engine, that needs rebuilding less often, is the team with the best engine. I have also mentioned to you in past posts that the o-ring issues has long since been resolved. There are no more issues. Synthetics leave less deposits so your concerns about them are unfounded.

You are arguing that because the parts are essentially in the same place in the Renesis as they are in the older rotaries that somehow that makes them sufficiently similar enough to make all the rules apply? You do realize that there are an awful lot of people successfully using synthetics in the older rotaries with no issues whatsoever right? You do realize that things are basically in the same place in a Model T engine as they are in an LS1 right? That doesn't make them the same and all the saem rules apply does it?

How can the debate contunue at all? You've been LONG since disproven. You have no evidence to support your claim, and have obviously not realized that just because 2 things can resemble each other in looks does not mean they are the same thing. Stop telling the people who have experience with synthetics that it is bad for the engine. You are obviously not qualified to as you have ZERO experience with it.

Mr. Wizard

I had the 'good fortune' to have my car in for a 15K service and was told that Mazda has discontinued the use of synthetic motor oils because " the synthetic oils foul the plugs, and as such lead to issues with hard starts/flooding". I was told that there was a TSB regerding the flooding issue(s) and this was a part of said bulliten. Now, I can NOT find ANY mention of this... Perhaps this Mazda Dealer is full of s__t (which is possible here, I have NO faith in these people, but I digress)...
What say yee?

BTW I'm not siding with anyone, but, I sure would like to see some DATA supporting the debated issues here AND a statement from Mazda, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Jesus all,
Use a little common sense here people. Extensive research has been done by the syn oil companies. Seasoned rotory people have had years of experience with syns such as Royal Purple and Redline, There are no warning on any of their motor oils about DO NOT USE In A Rotory Engine. High perforamce 2 cycle engines in motorcycles, outboards etc all use syn and run a syn pre mix(which I also do on certain ocassions) becauses it BURNS CLEANER. To me the evidence is overwhelming that good quailty syn oil designed for everyday use is ok to run and to me is better for your engine. Feel the differance it made in your trans. Dont you think it would help an engine also?
Like someone said earier Mazda just doesnt want to give a "blanket ok" to use syn because there are so many of them out there. Thats all there is to it.
And the debte will continue Im sure.
olddragger

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

ASH8, please allow me to say something :

Before my girlfriend become my girlfriend, my friends and cousin told me to stay away from her.

because although shes a nice person, but shes 100% not a good girlfriend because shes cold, not showing any affection, very stubborn, etc.

Guess what, shes my girlfriend now, and shes very sweet.

Yes she never shown it to other people, but if its just me and her, oh my god. shes the perfect one, very honest, willing to listen, and very cute :-)

You know if you've never had any experience in something, please dont say its bad.

Your opinion (about Rotary + Synthetic Oil) is just base on what you've read, and maybe words from other people.

In order to prove something is right/wrong, sometimes you just have to try it yourself. Dont take the words from other people

In this case, the oil thing, I did 2 oil change with Quaker's State Advance Q 5w20 already, maybe my engine is too new but I have yet to feel any degrade or whatever in performance.

Reliability ? Well I'll have to wait and see. but I think I should be able to tell in a around 2 years from now because, I just got my car for almost 3 months (3 more days) and I already put close to 5K miles to it. So IN a year I should have maybe 20K miles on my 8.

Lets forget about a newbie owner like me for now, RG for example, if hes not lying (dont hit me!!!!!) have been using nothing but Royal Purple, which is a Synthentic Oil, in all of his Autos including the Rotaries, without any problems !!!

What does that mean? Maybe you should be able to tell.

Should I trust someone with experience in the actual product ? OR
Should I trust someone base on readings, and/or word of mouth from other people who might just got it from someone else's opinion ?

Ok, even RG dont exist, or no one has ever use Synth oil in their Rotaries. I will still try it. Base on the fact that Synth oil has been proven to run better.

Mazda cant test every single oil out there, but remember, The Owner's Manual (At least MY Owner's Manual) did NOT mention anything about "Do not use Synthentic Oil in Renesis" kind of thing.

Thank you.

buzzardsluck

I was at my dealership yesterday and me and the service writer wandered down to the shop to show me a rotor since I hadn't seen/held one before. While walking down he was talking about all the trouble they have been having with the engines in the autos, so I asked if they had a engine out and laying around. They didn't have a blown one but they had a brand new one still in the plastic crate. As we popped the top to take a look, I saw a orange note attached to the engine that said (among a couple other things) " Do not use fill/use with synthetic oil. It will void the warrenty." Anyone else seen this tag? I was VERY surprised to see it since I've seen and read that syn oil won't void the warrenty

bxb40

Again a thread on motor oils... my weak spot ;o)
Anyway, nobody has data to prove either way - synthetics help the Renesis engine longevity or shorten it... UOA seem to be OK. People use synthetics and change them as often as dino oil... waste of money. People claim they feel a difference in how the engine runs - no way, the spec for a specific grade is very narrow and different oils cover the range, nothing to do with their synthetic content (i.e., if range of viscosity is 5cP tp 9cP, it is not true that synthetics are around 9cP and dino around 5cP - viscosity modifier components, not base stock, dictate that value). Also, most 5W20 are synthetic blends (for GF4) - hence not even Mazda can say anything against synthetics... their recommended oil contains it to some extent anyway. Now you wonder why all the hype is with synthetics? It is the OEM (i.e., GM) that are thinking to have oil change intervals up to 30,000 miles! That is the place you see the difference between dino and synthetic: oil drain interval. As none of the RX8 does shot at high drain intervals, synthetics are a waste of money. But is your money, so feel free to "feel" the car running different... All those "qualities" mentioned, such as viscosity, stability at oxidation, shear stability and deposits have little to do with the oil but all to do with with the additives in it. And the additives vary between brands regardless of the oil being synthetic or not.

Now here is a little something for the "conspiracy theory" people: a synthetic oil is more stable to oxidation, of course. A dino oil oxidizes easier and its viscosity increases because of this. Now, if both oils have the same amount and type of both antioxidant and viscosity modifier, the dino oil will keep viscosity in grade better than the synthetic oil. Why? Because what is lost due to the same viscosity modifier shearing down, is better compensated by increased oil viscosity due to oxidation. Plus, some of the oxygen will be taken by the dino oil but not by the synthetic oil (too inert), hence less will be available to degrade the viscosity modifier - so another "benefit" that will keep your viscosity in grade longer as dino oils act as anti-oxidants. Any of the experts can prove this theory wrong? :o)

As mentioned: the main advantage of the synthetic oil alone is reduced sludge over really long drain intervals. And no, not all synthetics are equal - just like dino oils are of different qualities. How to chose the "right" oil? According to your climate average temperatures, driving style, and UOA... Discarding an oil simply because is or not a synthetic is wrong.
As for which one burns easier - the motor oils were not designed to burn clean (unlike 2HT oils for motocycles), so there are no data in their Specs or were tested for it... so this is indeed a no-man teritory... and it could be Mazda knows something when it recommends (but does NOT ASK, so the voided warranty is BS) to avoid synthetics.

Ericok

Just to add fuel (or oil) to the fire, the following is quoted directly from the Mobil1 website:

Myth: Using Mobil 1 will void the warranty on my new car.

Reality:
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology will not void new car warranties, with the exception of the Mazda rotary engine (Mazda does not recommend any synthetic motor oil). Mobil 1 exceeds the API and ILSAC motor oil service requirements for all new vehicles, both import and domestic. If in doubt, always check your vehicle owner's manual or contact your vehicle's manufacturer.

ASH8

Very Interesting?

When I worked at Mazda, replacement engines were normally shipped (Japan) in a small wooden slat crate with a clear thin plastic sheet lining.

I am not discounting your integrity "buzzardsluck", it would have been good if you had been given the "orange" tag to show here.

Just adds more to the 100% Synthetic oil debate.

Again, confirms my view that the "factory" does not approve the use of these oils in their rotary engines.

Nubo

It will not void the warranty unless it is prohibited in the users' guide under the oil specifications.

rotarygod

Synthetics are fine. They easily meet all of the factory ratings necessary for oil. There has never been a single failure due to synthetics. The opposite is not necessarily true however.

bxb40

Not all synthetics are API/ILSAC approved... those will void your warranty.
Always check the starburst symbol when purchasing motor oils (synthetic or not)...

buzzardsluck

The engine wasn't for my car (thankfully). I will go back tomorrow and try to get a picture of the crate and tag, hopefully it's still there so I can prove I didn't sit here and make it up.

ASH8

RG, "Never" is a huge statement, I now can also ask as others have to me.

"Where is your data and facts to prove this is so", the answer,,, it is virtually impossible to back a "never" claim up...unless you really are a GOD. :D

Perhaps, in your experience RG, "there has never been a single failure due to synthetics".

HD-Paschke

MMD and MME says you can use mineral or synthetic.
Mazda Dexelia Ultra 5w30 is a full synthetic oil!

Mazda Motors (Deutschland) GmbH * Hitdorfer Str. 73 * 51371 Leverkusen

Ihre Nachricht vom Unser Zeichen Durchwahl, Name Datum
09.08.2005 KIZ / xxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx 10.08.2005

Ihre Anfragen

Sehr geehrter Herr xxxx,

vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail vom 9. August diesen Jahres.

Für den Mazda RX-8 wird ein Motoröl, wie in der Betriebsanleitung unter Pkt.
8-16 beschrieben, mit der SAE-Viskosität 5W-30 oder 10W-30 vorgeschrieben.

Wir empfehlen Ihnen z.B. das Mazda Original-Motoröl Dexelia. Innerhalb
dieser beiden Viskositätsklassen gibt es keine herstellerspezifischen
Einschränkungen, d.h. jedes handelsübliche Motoröl der Klassifikation 5W30
oder 10W30 ist einsetzbar, solange die in Ihrer Bedienungsanleitung
beschriebene API- bzw. ACEA-Klassifikation eingehalten wird.

Zum Sulfat-Aschegehalt liegen uns vom Hersteller keine eingrenzenden
Toleranz-Angaben vor. Die Bezeichnung 5W30 macht keine Aussage darüber, ob
es sich um ein mineralölbasisches-, teil- oder vollsynthetisches Motoröl
handelt. Je nach Hersteller werden hier unterschiedliche Motoröle
angeboten.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

MAZDA MOTORS (DEUTSCHLAND) GMBH



HDP
Wankel Rotary experience since 1954!