NavyDood

This all started about two months ago.

My wife calls me and says the RX-8 started funny. Didn't idle right and just felt funny. CEL came on. She revved it and it cleared it out. She turned it off and restarted it. It started fine and the CEL was gone. She then drove it around for a day or two and never had another problem. Since her A/C was cycling from hot to cold on its own at times and the driver side sun visor broke for the 4th time, now is a good time to take it to the dealer.

The dealer (Hillard Mazda Ft. Worth) called and said the car threw a code for a Throttle Body fault. They also said the coils were bad. They changed the throttle body, all four coils, the A/C part and the Sun Visor all under warranty. They took it out for a test drive and said they didn't like how warm the car was running so they changed the radiator and the thermostat. They took it back out for another test drive and it was running fine. She went to pick it up and got about 15 miles away and the car died as she turned into a gas station. It started back up after the second attempt. She pulled up to the pump, shut it off, filled it with gas, started it and drove right back to the dealer. The car never hiccupped on the drive back. There were stoplights and stop signs for this period also. Dealer gives her another rental and off she goes again. Dealer calls back a couple of days later and says she needs a new engine. Hmm. I wasn't surprised when the dealer said this, especially with all the engine problems starting to show up across the states.

Here comes the fun part. We moved back in Aug 06. Somewhere in the mix of moving, we lost a bunch of saved papers. And guess what is in the lost papers? All of the oil, oil filter, and air filter receipts except for the first four oil changes I did on the RX-8. She has 84,000 miles on her car. I changed the oil at 500 miles, 2500 miles, and then every 6000 miles after that. I have also changed the air filter twice in this period. The first two years she owned the car she averaged about 600 miles a week driving. So, since I couldn’t present those receipts to the dealer to send to MNAO, MANO flat out told the dealer they would not be assisting what so ever with the engine replacement. The dealer said it would be $4900 and some change to replace the engine. That price included the engine, labor and misc. stuff needed.

I called two different rotary specialists here in the DFW area. With the info I was telling them, they said I needed to get the compression numbers. I called the dealer to get the numbers. My numbers where 8.1, 8.2, 8.1 @ 267rpm and 8.2, 8.4, 8.2 @ 266rpm. They both pretty much believed with the numbers from the compression test, the engine seems to be fine without knowing the vacuum numbers. For all we know, it could just be a loose fitting vacuum line or a cut vacuum line. I still have to get the vacuum numbers. After doing a ton more reading on the net, I just couldn’t get myself to believe that the engine went bad even with all the other problematic engines across the states. One of the rotary shops suggested I get the car and take it to a different dealer in the DFW area that he highly recommended because they have a couple of mechanics that know the RX-8 and the Renesis engine.

I called my wife and told her to go pick up the car. She picked it up this past Wed morning. When she picked it up the wrench monkey that was assigned to her car said it started fine. Then proceeded to say the car shouldn’t have started that easy or it shouldn’t be running that good since the engine needs replaced. My wife said in a very sarcastic way, “Ya think”. She has been driving it since she picked it up non-stop. Stop and go, in town and running errands. The car hasn’t skipped a beat. The work order said they did a fuel test to see if the fuel was bad, a compression test, and a vacuum test. The work order said the car had low vacuum. No numbers or anything else. And every thing that was done on the work order annotated that they called tech assist. I have no faith in Hillard Mazda or the wrench monkey’s they have working there. Now her display on the dash cuts in and out. Amazing how that started acting up after they changed the A/C part in the dash.

So is there truly anything wrong with the engine? I don’t know. It is running like there was never a problem. I guess we will just drive it and see what happens. I don’t even know why I wrote all of this. Just needed to vent I guess.

DarkBrew

Mazda's big weakness is the incredibly bad training of their service techs. They seem incapable of diagnosing problems and then can't seem to get a repair right without at least 3 tries.
This of course is after you get past, 'I'm sorry sir but we can't seem to duplicate the problem...
Then if you complain about the poor quality of the work they say, 'If it's working you're better off not to have it worked on again'
My thoughts exactly: even the service writers have no confidence in the techs.

Mazurfer

Interesting...................Hopefully it won't show up again. Oh........think about changing your oil more than you do. Do it in 3-4k miles.

DMRH

Reading the numbers on the compression says that (mechanically) you have both rotors compressing without any drama. To be in the 8+kg/cm area at only 260+ rpm is excellent. On the earlier 13B-REW engines, you would need 300+rpm to get those numbers your 13B-MSP is pumping. (although static compression on the 13-MSP is higher)

So personally, its most likely the problem is elsewhere or vacum as you have suggested.

Most common problem I am fixing on the 13B-REW + 20B-REW engines are vacum issues. The hoses split, fatigue, crack & twist not to mention pop out of the nipples they are attached to thanks to apprentice hands inside engine bays they know nothing about.

Find a vacum gauge, T-piece of a section on the main circuit to the gauge & start crimping hoses with your pliers to elimate each hose one-by-one. All whilst the engine is at idle.

be attentive as a small leak will cause only a small jump in vacum at idle & you have to be watching the gauge carefully yo be ready for it.

or, (like I do) get a vacum pump & start generating your own vacum from the manifold source with the engine in the ON position but not running. Then gets much easier with the crimping hose technique.

REgards

NavyDood

Just a small update. My wife has gone through 3 tanks of gas in the past week and the car hasn't skipped a beat. The driving has been about 50/50 city/hwy.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The stumbles and such that were experienced after the initial service were probably from ESS profile changes and sensor variation that had yet to be accounted for by the updated flash that was performed during the engine vacuum and compression test.
It is not uncommon for the '8 to run like crap for the first few drive cycles after a PCM update.

Flashwing

The PCM flash I got during recall service actually made the car feel and pull a little stronger than prior. Although after the 3rd drive cycle the PCM seemed to correct itself and it settled down.

I usually experience some low idle issues when the PCM is reset by removing the battery...but they clear up pretty quick.

Ghadrack

Their engine replacement diagnosis would seem like it might be actionable, if you were less savy then you might have been out 5 grand for nothing. Do you have paperwork from them telling you that you need a new engine and anything from them telling you your warranty wasn't valid. That seems like extremely poor, borderline criminal activity that might be worth mentioning to the better business bureau.

NavyDood

The paper work says this verbatim....

"Found vehicle to have rough idle, contacted tech assist hot line. Was instructed by tech assist to perform fuel test to check for contamination. Fuel per specs. Was instructed by tech assist to perform engine compression test. Compression per specs. Called tech assist with results and was instructed to perform engine vacuum. Engine vacuum test was below specs. Contacted tech assit with vacuum test results. Was advised by tech assist to replace engine due to vacuum loss causing rough idle. Customer declined repairs at this time."

It's baffleing. The car hasn't skipped a beat.

Thumpr302

This is only my first post, and i'm not a gearhead by any means... but it sounds like you need the new flash on your PCM. I've had similar problems with my '04. (Not starting, rough idle, and dying for no reason). I took mine into the dealer and got the newest re-flash and after a week of driving, it ran fine. you might already know this but the 8's PCM has 3 different trim levels. The PCM constintly develops new trims for light, moderate, and heavy throttle settings. The PCM could have been where the problem started, cuz everything that you said was replaced is tied into the last recall. Hopefully you don't have too much damage done, and your 8 will last for awhile without swaping the engine.
My 8 has ran great since i got my re-flash, but I also get my oil changed every 2500 miles (at the dealership, just so everything is on file plus they use all factory parts), rev my engine to 3000RPM's everytime before i turn it off, and run high octang fuel through it at least once a month.
The display problem your having, is probably a broken solder point. If it is, it should be easy to fix. If you want to replace it, i think you can find one on e-bay for around $50.
Hopefully some of this info helps.

NavyDood

Well this will be my last post about this. She has had the car back for approx 6 weeks now and never had another issue. She racked up another 3000 miles and the car worked fine.

Soo... before she runs into anymore problems she traded it in on a 2007 Mustang GT. She's like a kid in a candy store all over again. Best part, her monthly pmt's dropped $140 a month and insurance only went up $80 over a 6 month period. She doesn't miss the 8. She's grinning from ear to ear with the new found power and getting better mileage also.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Dont mean to dis your wife's choice but

Mustang also comes with a super floppy chassis, and subpar handling. Oh remember to check for Transmission/Engine oil leaks. It happens to Ford all the time.

NavyDood

I agree there were better choices out there. But she's happy. She needed something more dependable. She didn't drive the 8 like she should have and I am not home to drive it like it should be driven since I am over the the Middle East in the giant sandbox they call a desert. The nearest Mazda dealer was over an hour away. The last thing I wanted and she wanted was to be stranded somewhere, couldn't get to work, or get my daughter to school.

The overall appearance of the new Mustang GT takes some getting used to. Not quite as sleek as the 8's. The mustang has turned more heads in the first week than the 8 ever did though. I think the painted on stripes have something to do with that.

I do miss the 8's handling. Leaking issues on all fords? That is a broad and vague statement. I haven't read of any issues on the newer model mustangs. As for the Powerjoke diesels, yeah they are leakers along with the other 150+ TSB's issued on that hunk of crap engine.

The 8 had 87,000 miles on it when we traded it in. The dealer said it would just go to the auction because of the mileage.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Where you live again ?

if it goes to auction around me I might just buy it. I need some parts around just in case the stuff on mine breaks. Might as well just grab the engine, so I can try to rebuild an engine myself ... with RB Rotors and new seals of course, I think my engine now will last at least 150K but who knows if I FI it ... hehehe