Local Dealer: "We replace about one A/C condenser a week."
Oil Injection
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 2
From: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by nycgps
Well then I guess I will start sueing everybody that I know.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
JUST a plane crash would have been ok
JUST a fire would have been ok
but the crash and the fire was too much.
You are sleeepppyyyy.....
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Rubidoux, CA
Originally Posted by SecrtSqurl
I tried to get my dealer to install aftermarket screens and they absolutly refused. You would think that if I paid for them they would compromise and install them. Nope. Mine refuses to install an aftermarket part, even when it could prevent a potential problem.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy
Ayone know if the '05 Mazda Screens will bolt onto a pre-'05 car? I am going to meet try to meet with the service manager about this issue, and am thinking that as a backup request, i would like to have the screens put on my car. Seems a small favor for the $750 they are making off of me for the repair. (Yes, I know they aren't actually maknig $750 proffit, I'm just venting)
They certainly will bolt on.
Jst wnt a relibl Turbo
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
I dont think I ever expected the Mazda service Dept to ever be reasonable and work with me on the screen issue. I am not that butt-hurt because when I got the car I said to myself "those things look really vulnerable to rocks", and I bought the car anyways!
You are sleeepppyyyy.....
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Rubidoux, CA
I ordered my car before every really seeing one, so little things like that went unnoticed. I should have protected it... I even put Stonegard on the car to protect the paint from rocks... just didn't think about the condenser.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Wentzville, Mo
Well, it'ss good to know that I am not alone. I requested my dealer to inspect my AC during my last oil change. Sure enough, a rock or something had punctured something up front. They replaced it under warranty, which was cool. But now, after reading this....I had better check on these screens.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by nycgps
Well then I guess I will start sueing everybody that I know.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
if I remember right the trade towers where designed to be able to take the impact of a plane.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MrWigggles
I started the thread and I want to add my two cents on whether the '04 condenser sans screens was a "design flaw" or whether the '05 with condenser screen was a "design improvement"
The answer is both the former and the later are true. As highway speeds slowly increase each year in the US, road debris has become an increasing problem. Anti-lock brakes, air bags, and stability control all help avoid or reduce the damage mainly from vehicle to vehicle accidents, they don't do much to prevent road debris damage especially from the smallest of debris.
Mazda should have recognized this (and they eventually did), but does that make them liable for all debris damage incurred from them not having condenser screens? No.
1. They didn't put the debris on the road, somebody else dropped it.
2. They didn't design the road. In my case means I-45 in Houston which often doesn't have shoulders and thus lacks a place for debris to eventually settle.
3. They didn't force me to drive on the road that I did. What level of debris is the RX-8 supposed to endure?
There are no standards for debris tolerance for road worthy vehicles; the NHTSA doesn't spec one and neither does any other international government agency to my knowledge. Thus there aren't any expressed warranties to the abilities of RX-8 to withstand road debris. Maybe rocks and thus this condenser issue aren't a problem at all in Japan or other parts of the world.
I guess what I am leading up to is the notion that because they fixed "the problem" for '05 the damage to the '04 is now their fault. This logic might play out in court, but is quite lacking in solid reasoning. Let's take other examples of debris damage and I think you'll see what I mean.
It is pretty well understood (or at least speculated) that modern water-based car paints are thinner and less chip resistance that previous solvent based versions. Thus the amount of damage to the paint in the front of the vehicle is quite extensive from debris. Now does that make all paint (and headlight) damage Mazda's fault? Most people would say "no"; if you want to preserve your paint, you should get a normal or clear bra for the front of your car. Ok, what if Mazda themselves added a clear bra in '07? Now, would Mazda be responsible for paint damage to all previous years? They "fixed the problem" so it must have been a "design flaw" for the previous years.
Before anyone says paint and headlights are just cosmetic problems and not the same thing, bear in mind that a rock to the condenser doesn't leave you stranded just uncomfortable and out of a chunk of dough. If you want to protect your paint, get a bra. If you want to protect your condenser, get debris screens.
This post sounds like I'm a lawyer for Mazda and I'm not. Heck I'm the one who had to shell out $800; it would be in my best finacial interests to make Mazda out to be the bad guy. However, I don't see how you say that the problem is 100% their fault. If helps people sleep at night, painting Mazda as the villian then so be it, but deep down I think most people don't see this as 100% Mazda's problem.
-Mr. Wigggles
The answer is both the former and the later are true. As highway speeds slowly increase each year in the US, road debris has become an increasing problem. Anti-lock brakes, air bags, and stability control all help avoid or reduce the damage mainly from vehicle to vehicle accidents, they don't do much to prevent road debris damage especially from the smallest of debris.
Mazda should have recognized this (and they eventually did), but does that make them liable for all debris damage incurred from them not having condenser screens? No.
1. They didn't put the debris on the road, somebody else dropped it.
2. They didn't design the road. In my case means I-45 in Houston which often doesn't have shoulders and thus lacks a place for debris to eventually settle.
3. They didn't force me to drive on the road that I did. What level of debris is the RX-8 supposed to endure?
There are no standards for debris tolerance for road worthy vehicles; the NHTSA doesn't spec one and neither does any other international government agency to my knowledge. Thus there aren't any expressed warranties to the abilities of RX-8 to withstand road debris. Maybe rocks and thus this condenser issue aren't a problem at all in Japan or other parts of the world.
I guess what I am leading up to is the notion that because they fixed "the problem" for '05 the damage to the '04 is now their fault. This logic might play out in court, but is quite lacking in solid reasoning. Let's take other examples of debris damage and I think you'll see what I mean.
It is pretty well understood (or at least speculated) that modern water-based car paints are thinner and less chip resistance that previous solvent based versions. Thus the amount of damage to the paint in the front of the vehicle is quite extensive from debris. Now does that make all paint (and headlight) damage Mazda's fault? Most people would say "no"; if you want to preserve your paint, you should get a normal or clear bra for the front of your car. Ok, what if Mazda themselves added a clear bra in '07? Now, would Mazda be responsible for paint damage to all previous years? They "fixed the problem" so it must have been a "design flaw" for the previous years.
Before anyone says paint and headlights are just cosmetic problems and not the same thing, bear in mind that a rock to the condenser doesn't leave you stranded just uncomfortable and out of a chunk of dough. If you want to protect your paint, get a bra. If you want to protect your condenser, get debris screens.
This post sounds like I'm a lawyer for Mazda and I'm not. Heck I'm the one who had to shell out $800; it would be in my best finacial interests to make Mazda out to be the bad guy. However, I don't see how you say that the problem is 100% their fault. If helps people sleep at night, painting Mazda as the villian then so be it, but deep down I think most people don't see this as 100% Mazda's problem.
-Mr. Wigggles
so if mazda decided to put the headlights only 4 inches from the ground (if that could pass law lets say) and I keep chiping my headlights with rocks it's not the fault of mazda? granted you know headlights get chipped it's part of life. but if you put them only 4 inches off the ground you know you chances of getting a chipped/broken headlight are going to be greatly enhanced. and even more so being many other headlights on many other cars would be doing just fine.
or what if they put the air filter right behind the front wheel just above the ground. mazda has no controll of water on a road so they aren't liable from it are they?
the design that mazda used from what I'm picknig up sounds like a issue of bad design. sure they don't controll the rocks on the road but they can control how things are covered and protected to prevent issues like this. and if they knew there would be a problem by not fixing or perventing the problem sounds negligent.
The Stickinator
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,328
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR.
Originally Posted by nycgps
Well then I guess I will start sueing everybody that I know.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
As for you being sue happy... I don't think that has anything to do with getting reimbursed in this situation. Go RYAN!!!
the shit starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
From: Houston
well simply from reading all yall's posts some fear grew inside of me of having to pay that kinda price when i could just invest it now... so i bought dem screens and an air ram... and some HID fog's.... a big project to take off the nose....
Registered
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Keef,
The comment about the big project taking off the nose. Is this a statement or a question? I've been wanting to get the screens as well but am afraid of taking off the nose. Everyone here says I'm worrying needlessly. What was your experience.
Mike
The comment about the big project taking off the nose. Is this a statement or a question? I've been wanting to get the screens as well but am afraid of taking off the nose. Everyone here says I'm worrying needlessly. What was your experience.
Mike
He's as bad as Can
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,309
Likes: 3
From: Manchester, NJ
Originally Posted by willsrx
I have an 05'. They already have an ac screen?
By the way it's been about 3 weeks since I put on an aftermarket condenser and the A/C works fine. You can fix this yourself for about $400.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Brooklyn/Roosevelt, LI/Rosedale, NY
From previous posts I thought it was standard equipment on 05' or newer models but I do not have this screen. I will have to get the racing beats. Expo1 did you get the oil cooler screens as well. Thanks.
He's as bad as Can
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,309
Likes: 3
From: Manchester, NJ
Yes I got the oil cooler screens but will do them at another time. You do not need to remove the bumper to take out the AC condenser. You do to install the oil screens, I will do that in two weeks when I will have more time.
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