High RPMs necessary to ensure engine longevity?
03-01-2004, 10:49 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: So California
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, 325mi per tank.. I can't believe you are going for that.
I am around 250 when the low fuel indicator lights up.
I thought this was normal for all the "slow" drivers like myself
I am around 250 when the low fuel indicator lights up.
I thought this was normal for all the "slow" drivers like myself
03-01-2004, 12:31 PM
#29
Back in the family
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: philly 'burbs
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No reason *not* to redline. Rotaries love to rev, and NA rotaries are built to last.
Don't cheat yourself and miss the entire point of the engine. Run it hard through the gears as often as you can! Why did you buy this car in the first place?
/Gets 11-12mpg and doesn't care.
Don't cheat yourself and miss the entire point of the engine. Run it hard through the gears as often as you can! Why did you buy this car in the first place?
/Gets 11-12mpg and doesn't care.
03-01-2004, 02:29 PM
#30
donuts are day old bagels
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Californication
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nobody says you have to redline. in fact, if you didn't redline, you'll definitly prolong the engine longevity. but considering that the rotary engines are designed to be high reving engines, and the fact that most car owners these days dont own the same car for 10+ years..... if you dont redline, your engine/car might last you 10+ years. but for the rest of us who will probably sell/trade in the car around 5 years, i see no point of saving the engine for anything. rather than redlinining, i'd say that constant stop-and-go traffice is worse for your engine and you probably do that anyway everyday.
redline it. do it hard and do it often. you didn't buy a 238hp car do drive it like a civic.
redline it. do it hard and do it often. you didn't buy a 238hp car do drive it like a civic.
03-01-2004, 04:06 PM
#31
- Senior Menber -
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne,AU
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by RX8Bliss
nobody says you have to redline. in fact, if you didn't redline, you'll definitly prolong the engine longevity. but considering that the rotary engines are designed to be high reving engines, and the fact that most car owners these days dont own the same car for 10+ years..... if you dont redline, your engine/car might last you 10+ years. but for the rest of us who will probably sell/trade in the car around 5 years, i see no point of saving the engine for anything. rather than redlinining, i'd say that constant stop-and-go traffice is worse for your engine and you probably do that anyway everyday.
redline it. do it hard and do it often. you didn't buy a 238hp car do drive it like a civic.
nobody says you have to redline. in fact, if you didn't redline, you'll definitly prolong the engine longevity. but considering that the rotary engines are designed to be high reving engines, and the fact that most car owners these days dont own the same car for 10+ years..... if you dont redline, your engine/car might last you 10+ years. but for the rest of us who will probably sell/trade in the car around 5 years, i see no point of saving the engine for anything. rather than redlinining, i'd say that constant stop-and-go traffice is worse for your engine and you probably do that anyway everyday.
redline it. do it hard and do it often. you didn't buy a 238hp car do drive it like a civic.
03-01-2004, 05:38 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While reving an engine will create wear, rotaries are less prone to wear from high rpm running than a typical piston engine. They are extremely prone to wear from the torque of lugging an engine though.
Typical ideas of engine wear do not apply to rotaries since they inject oil into the combustion chamber and the seals are fully lubricated on both sides. A piston engine is designed to not allow oil into the combustion chamber and the rings actually act as scrapers to clean the cylinder walls durring normal operation, hence they do not get lubricated on both sides.
The seals in use in rotary engines are also self lubricating to an extent.
So don't drive the engine at high load low RPM, and rev the snot out of it.
Typical ideas of engine wear do not apply to rotaries since they inject oil into the combustion chamber and the seals are fully lubricated on both sides. A piston engine is designed to not allow oil into the combustion chamber and the rings actually act as scrapers to clean the cylinder walls durring normal operation, hence they do not get lubricated on both sides.
The seals in use in rotary engines are also self lubricating to an extent.
So don't drive the engine at high load low RPM, and rev the snot out of it.
03-02-2004, 12:15 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by wakeech
phink, just stop with the shadetree rumor garbage, ok?? the internet is cluttered with this stuff enough as it is.
phink, just stop with the shadetree rumor garbage, ok?? the internet is cluttered with this stuff enough as it is.
If you can find any scientific proof that anything I said was wrong then I will by all means retract my statements. But you won't so you might want to think before you type next time.
03-02-2004, 05:28 PM
#37
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Riverview FL
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we should all be very careful about redlining....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The traffic ticket for redlining in 4th or 5th could be really bad.
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
F U N getting to redline...... but B A D paying the bill....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The traffic ticket for redlining in 4th or 5th could be really bad.
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
F U N getting to redline...... but B A D paying the bill....
03-02-2004, 06:14 PM
#38
Free Autographed Pictures
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: PRC
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just redline in 2nd, never got a ticket for that.
I am all for revving the engine but won't the engine become hotter if you rev it more and that would in turn produce more stress on the engine and especially on the exhuast system?
I am all for revving the engine but won't the engine become hotter if you rev it more and that would in turn produce more stress on the engine and especially on the exhuast system?
03-02-2004, 06:27 PM
#39
mostly harmless
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Greater Vancouver Area, BC
Posts: 3,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by rxphink
Exactly what was garbage about my post?
If you can find any scientific proof that anything I said was wrong then I will by all means retract my statements. But you won't so you might want to think before you type next time.
Exactly what was garbage about my post?
If you can find any scientific proof that anything I said was wrong then I will by all means retract my statements. But you won't so you might want to think before you type next time.
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
03-02-2004, 06:37 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Proof is easy if you have ever taken apart a rotary engine that has been driven at low RPM for most of it's life. You will find telltale chatter marks from the seals on the rotor housings.
And as for piston rings, what would you say their purpose is then? Piston rings are there to keep combustion in the combustion chamber and to scrape oil away as the piston moves.
What oil lubrication do piston rings have on the combustion chamber side?
You claim I'm plainly wrong but offer no explination why.
And as for piston rings, what would you say their purpose is then? Piston rings are there to keep combustion in the combustion chamber and to scrape oil away as the piston moves.
What oil lubrication do piston rings have on the combustion chamber side?
You claim I'm plainly wrong but offer no explination why.
Originally posted by wakeech
shadetree rumour stuff: rotaries are magically less prone to running wear, and are magically more prone to "lugging" wear. (instead of proof disproving you, how about proof proving your claims??)
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
shadetree rumour stuff: rotaries are magically less prone to running wear, and are magically more prone to "lugging" wear. (instead of proof disproving you, how about proof proving your claims??)
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
03-02-2004, 07:46 PM
#41
Riot Controller
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
could you desbrice lugging a little more in detail? do you mean like flooring it in 6th gear when you're at like 45mph?
if i do that in my car, it makes a very low frequency sound, so i don't do it on a regular basis.
as a side note, what minimum speed do you cruise at in 6th?
if i do that in my car, it makes a very low frequency sound, so i don't do it on a regular basis.
as a side note, what minimum speed do you cruise at in 6th?
03-02-2004, 07:52 PM
#42
"Lugging" is wide open throttle (or nearly so) at RPMs below 2700 or less, especially in 4th or above.
I will cruise at 35 MPH in 6th if I have no throttle needs.
I'll do the same in 3rd if I need to get in an out of traffic.
Let your ears and the seat of your pants be your guide - put some tape over the tach and pay attention. The car will let you know what it needs and what you need.
I will cruise at 35 MPH in 6th if I have no throttle needs.
I'll do the same in 3rd if I need to get in an out of traffic.
Let your ears and the seat of your pants be your guide - put some tape over the tach and pay attention. The car will let you know what it needs and what you need.
03-02-2004, 07:59 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mundaring, West Australia
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by wakeech
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
The bottom one (the oil control ring) is of a different design and its job is to both help distribute the oil around the cylinder wall, and also to control how much oil is spread around.
Inevitably (as the oil is introduced below the compression rings), there is more oil below the piston than above - as rxphink suggests. How do you see it differently???
Also, he does not suggest that there is anything magical about the properties of the rotary engine. He just says that the different designs have different outcomes. What he said sounds reasonable to me.
Back to the original topic:
To thrash or not to thrash?
If you read the "running in" instructions for the RX8 you'll see cautions involving not lugging the engine and not running at the same revs for extended periods. Even the suggestion that you should not over-rev only says:
"Avoid driving constantly at full throttle or high engine RPM (over 7,000rpm)". Note that is says don't do it constantly - not don't do it at all.
From what I've read about rotaries, (and from 45 years general experience of owning and working on cars), my style is to drive on the high side of moderate without constantly going the full hog of thrashing the crap out of the thing. Thrashing done in enthusiastic bursts.
Grannying around, babying the motor, and generally lugging the engine is not a good idea with rotaries. However, no piece of machinery really responds well to being constantly thrashed to the limit.
But, hell, it's only a car - just a piece of machinery - and it's all fixable. So I say drive it in whatever way gives the owner the most fun, most satisfaction, or best suits the style they feel comfortable with. :D :D
03-02-2004, 08:03 PM
#45
Free Autographed Pictures
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: PRC
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by BVD
"Avoid driving constantly at full throttle or high engine RPM (over 7,000rpm)". Note that is says don't do it constantly - not don't do it at all.
"Avoid driving constantly at full throttle or high engine RPM (over 7,000rpm)". Note that is says don't do it constantly - not don't do it at all.
It says to avoid constantly revving beyond 7k rpms FOR THE FIRST 600MI to add to the future performance and longevity of the car.
03-02-2004, 08:05 PM
#46
Originally posted by wakeech
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
piston rings are somehow less lubricated, and only on one side no less (which is just plainly wrong).
Of course his compression ring is lubed on both sides.:p
03-02-2004, 08:06 PM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by epitrochoid
could you desbrice lugging a little more in detail? do you mean like flooring it in 6th gear when you're at like 45mph?
if i do that in my car, it makes a very low frequency sound, so i don't do it on a regular basis.
as a side note, what minimum speed do you cruise at in 6th?
could you desbrice lugging a little more in detail? do you mean like flooring it in 6th gear when you're at like 45mph?
if i do that in my car, it makes a very low frequency sound, so i don't do it on a regular basis.
as a side note, what minimum speed do you cruise at in 6th?
So, if you rev your engine to 1500 RPM and hold it, the engine will be smoth and perfectly happy to keep doing it.
Now do the exact same thing while in 6th gear. You will notice that there is a rather rough vibration and as you put it a low frequency rumble. This is the engine resisting the load put on it. In a condition such as this what you are hearing are the seals dragging against the rotor housings as they bind up trying to fight the load put on the engine. This chattering can cause little pock marks on the rotor housing which will over time cause more damage and lower compresion. These little pock marks turn the face of the housing into a very rough surface and will "sand" down the seals reducing compression.
I normally keep the revs at ~4000 in 6th.
Last edited by rxphink; 03-02-2004 at 08:10 PM.
03-02-2004, 08:09 PM
#48
Free Autographed Pictures
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: PRC
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by BVD
"Avoid driving constantly at full throttle or high engine RPM (over 7,000rpm)". Note that is says don't do it constantly - not don't do it at all.
"Avoid driving constantly at full throttle or high engine RPM (over 7,000rpm)". Note that is says don't do it constantly - not don't do it at all.
It says to avoid constantly revving beyond 7k rpms FOR THE FIRST 600MI to add to the future performance and longevity of the car.
03-02-2004, 08:40 PM
#50
Free Autographed Pictures
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: PRC
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right now I have only heard evidence that too much high revving causes engine wear, but doing it occasionally is good cause it cleans out anything that might be forming in there. I have also heard evidence that lugging is not good. What evidence is there that a lot of high revving is good, if only revving it high occasionally (8500 three times a week?) will clean the plugs and all the deposits out.