Had Trouble Starting After Driving...
08-25-2009, 02:18 PM
#26
Blackin' Out The 8
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I agree, he could easily have a coil problem, although the problem occuring easier when he turns on the A/C points towards alternator problems as well. Not conclusive, but suggestive. Coils problems generally don't manifest related to A/C usage.
Just asking them to check is probably going to cost you. And coils fail before plugs, and are normally the ignition problem. It is common to have people post up that they went to a dealer, the dealer replaced the plugs, and the problem wasn't solved. 99% of them turn out to be coils originally anyway. Not saying plugs don't need to be changed, just don't get stuck on plugs. Between coils vs plugs, coils fail first, and if your plugs have failed, your coils have probably been dying for a long time.
Just asking them to check is probably going to cost you. And coils fail before plugs, and are normally the ignition problem. It is common to have people post up that they went to a dealer, the dealer replaced the plugs, and the problem wasn't solved. 99% of them turn out to be coils originally anyway. Not saying plugs don't need to be changed, just don't get stuck on plugs. Between coils vs plugs, coils fail first, and if your plugs have failed, your coils have probably been dying for a long time.
08-25-2009, 02:18 PM
#27
I would say its the plugs and or coils. Start with them first. You really can do this yourself. My dealership wanted to charge me 400.00 for this. I did it myself, and I considered myself a noob when I did it. It is really easy. That's the first thing they will do anyways if you bring it to them.
08-25-2009, 02:22 PM
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I would say its the plugs and or coils. Start with them first. You really can do this yourself. My dealership wanted to charge me 400.00 for this. I did it myself, and I considered myself a noob when I did it. It is really easy. That's the first thing they will do anyways if you bring it to them.
08-25-2009, 02:24 PM
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^ We hope. 
Plenty of dealer mechanics don't think to check the coils.
But yes. Coils coils coils first. Replacing them solves so many problems, and if nothing else, eliminates them from consideration.
And don't worry too much about buying replacements if the problem ends up being something else, since you are in the failure mileage for coils anyway. Replacements will put you to ~63,000 miles, or you can swap back in your old ones and run them into the ground for a few thousand more miles, then swap back in the new ones. You won't be wasting a bit of money buying new coils (as long as you don't get raped on the price).
Dealers will charge you all over the board. My local dealer tries to charge $80 each, or $320 for all 4. Online (forum vendors here, including a few good dealerships across the country), you can find them down to I think $32 each pre-shipping. You need 4, so expect ~$130+ for them.
Plenty of dealer mechanics don't think to check the coils.But yes. Coils coils coils first. Replacing them solves so many problems, and if nothing else, eliminates them from consideration.
And don't worry too much about buying replacements if the problem ends up being something else, since you are in the failure mileage for coils anyway. Replacements will put you to ~63,000 miles, or you can swap back in your old ones and run them into the ground for a few thousand more miles, then swap back in the new ones. You won't be wasting a bit of money buying new coils (as long as you don't get raped on the price).
Dealers will charge you all over the board. My local dealer tries to charge $80 each, or $320 for all 4. Online (forum vendors here, including a few good dealerships across the country), you can find them down to I think $32 each pre-shipping. You need 4, so expect ~$130+ for them.
08-25-2009, 02:24 PM
#31
[QUOTE=klanham08;3188174]I just bought it and it had 32,250 on it. I was thinking about going in for a 30k service, but I figured I could see if it needs it when I go in for an oil change.
I can almost guarantee you that its the first thing they ask....if say no then they would higly recommend it of couse which is a smart thing to do because the next tune up would be at 60k then 90k
I can almost guarantee you that its the first thing they ask....if say no then they would higly recommend it of couse which is a smart thing to do because the next tune up would be at 60k then 90k
08-25-2009, 02:27 PM
#33
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^ We hope. Plenty of dealer mechanics don't think to check the coils.
But yes. Coils coils coils first. Replacing them solves so many problems, and if nothing else, eliminates them from consideration.
And don't worry too much about buying replacements if the problem ends up being something else, since you are in the failure mileage for coils anyway. Replacements will put you to ~63,000 miles, or you can swap back in your old ones and run them into the ground for a few thousand more miles, then swap back in the new ones. You won't be wasting a bit of money buying new coils (as long as you don't get raped on the price).
Dealers will charge you all over the board. My local dealer tries to charge $80 each, or $320 for all 4. Online (forum vendors here, including a few good dealerships across the country), you can find them down to I think $32 each pre-shipping. You need 4, so expect ~$130+ for them.
Plenty of dealer mechanics don't think to check the coils.But yes. Coils coils coils first. Replacing them solves so many problems, and if nothing else, eliminates them from consideration.
And don't worry too much about buying replacements if the problem ends up being something else, since you are in the failure mileage for coils anyway. Replacements will put you to ~63,000 miles, or you can swap back in your old ones and run them into the ground for a few thousand more miles, then swap back in the new ones. You won't be wasting a bit of money buying new coils (as long as you don't get raped on the price).
Dealers will charge you all over the board. My local dealer tries to charge $80 each, or $320 for all 4. Online (forum vendors here, including a few good dealerships across the country), you can find them down to I think $32 each pre-shipping. You need 4, so expect ~$130+ for them.
08-25-2009, 02:35 PM
#34
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Keep in mind that coils are NEVER listed ANYWHERE in connection with regular maintenance or service. So they won't be included in 30k service. Some people have been successful with using the lack of mention of them being a service item to get the dealer to cover it under warranty, but it is hit-or-miss on success.
And seriously, ask around in the MD thread for help on doing the stuff yourself. The community is really very helpful in general, and finding an excuse work on an 8 is enough to pull people out Self maintenance on the 8 is far easier than any other car I have owned, and much of it I learned from helping other people with theirs, or having other people help me with mine.
And seriously, ask around in the MD thread for help on doing the stuff yourself. The community is really very helpful in general, and finding an excuse work on an 8 is enough to pull people out
Self maintenance on the 8 is far easier than any other car I have owned, and much of it I learned from helping other people with theirs, or having other people help me with mine.
08-25-2009, 10:22 PM
#36
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08-26-2009, 08:24 AM
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Also Having Trouble
I took mine into the dealership to check out why mine isn't starting properly. They can't find anything wrong and it didn't do it for them (so they say). Told me to bring it back to keep overnight and they would try again. Some of you are suggesting these engines don't last very long. The research I did before buying the car indicated just the opposite. Am I really looking at changing the engine soon?
08-26-2009, 09:04 AM
#38
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Couple things to both of you...
A) Welcome to the club
B) Sorry to hear about your issues. It's exactly how mine played out shortly after buying mine.
C) Here's a bunch of info you need to know/bookmark now that you're an owner.
These sites are your best friends:
Here - www.rx8club.com
TSBs and Recalls - http://www.finishlineperformance.com....php?pageid=11
Service Manual (download all of them) - http://foxed.ca/foxed/index.php?page=rx7manual
The other important thing to follow is your owners manual. If your car didn't come with one go to Mazdausa.com and register your car under the "owners" section. You can download it for free as well as a service schedule, keep track of your own services, etc.
As others mentioned your right at that 35K service interval. Look in your owners manual for everything that needs to be completed. Most everything is crazy easy and cheap to buy/do yourself.
Oil change - 6qts 5W-30 (NOT 5W-20) + filter = $22
Trans fluid change - 2 qts 75W-90 GL4 (actual 1.6-1.8) = $20
Differential Fluid change - 2 qts 75W-90 GL5 = $20
New plugs - $75
New coils - $100
Coolant - (let the dealer or someone trained do it) I believe this isn't due til 40K but your car is older and don't trust the original owner/s did it. Should only be $100 or less at any shop.
All in you're at $340 including coolant. This stuff isn't optional but paying dealers $90/hr + wages and inflated parts cost are. As others mentioned, there should be tons of folks locally willing to help for free or worst cast scenarion some Coke, beer or bbq. Have a "meet" at your place and lay out $50 for some food. You'll have to beat them off with a stick!
Cheers.
A) Welcome to the club
B) Sorry to hear about your issues. It's exactly how mine played out shortly after buying mine.
C) Here's a bunch of info you need to know/bookmark now that you're an owner.
These sites are your best friends:
Here - www.rx8club.com
TSBs and Recalls - http://www.finishlineperformance.com....php?pageid=11
Service Manual (download all of them) - http://foxed.ca/foxed/index.php?page=rx7manual
The other important thing to follow is your owners manual. If your car didn't come with one go to Mazdausa.com and register your car under the "owners" section. You can download it for free as well as a service schedule, keep track of your own services, etc.
As others mentioned your right at that 35K service interval. Look in your owners manual for everything that needs to be completed. Most everything is crazy easy and cheap to buy/do yourself.
Oil change - 6qts 5W-30 (NOT 5W-20) + filter = $22
Trans fluid change - 2 qts 75W-90 GL4 (actual 1.6-1.8) = $20
Differential Fluid change - 2 qts 75W-90 GL5 = $20
New plugs - $75
New coils - $100
Coolant - (let the dealer or someone trained do it) I believe this isn't due til 40K but your car is older and don't trust the original owner/s did it. Should only be $100 or less at any shop.
All in you're at $340 including coolant. This stuff isn't optional but paying dealers $90/hr + wages and inflated parts cost are. As others mentioned, there should be tons of folks locally willing to help for free or worst cast scenarion some Coke, beer or bbq. Have a "meet" at your place and lay out $50 for some food. You'll have to beat them off with a stick!
Cheers.
08-26-2009, 09:09 AM
#39
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I took mine into the dealership to check out why mine isn't starting properly. They can't find anything wrong and it didn't do it for them (so they say). Told me to bring it back to keep overnight and they would try again. Some of you are suggesting these engines don't last very long. The research I did before buying the car indicated just the opposite. Am I really looking at changing the engine soon?
08-26-2009, 09:29 AM
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I took mine into the dealership to check out why mine isn't starting properly. They can't find anything wrong and it didn't do it for them (so they say). Told me to bring it back to keep overnight and they would try again. Some of you are suggesting these engines don't last very long. The research I did before buying the car indicated just the opposite. Am I really looking at changing the engine soon?
Lax care taken, and the engine fails faster than piston engines
When the engine fails, it still functions better than piston engines.
Yes a rotary won the 24hrs of LeMans, and yes it was in perfect condition at the end of it, but it was also designed to run like that. Our engines are the same base stock, and are designed to run long and hard and last far better than piston engines under such conditions. Grandma it around and/or not give it the fluids it needs, and it's only a matter of time till you lose it. That all being said, our cooling systems are not what they should be, and lack of proper cooling is the biggest problem our engines have on the street, if run the way they were designed.
It's such a multi-part answer to the question. No simple answer one way or the other. There are quite a few people over 100,000 miles on the original engine and going strong. One 4th owner had the original engine to 153,000 or so before wrecking it. On the other hand, there are people that have had to replace 3 engines within 20,000 miles. So many factors to consider, and several of them are buried within the engine and won't be shown unless it is opened up.
08-26-2009, 10:30 AM
#41
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That's the dumbest thing I've read all year - maybe ever.
"Properly taken care of" - Like I mentioned, 04's didn't inject enough oil. Even if you kept up on your oil levels, premixed, etc, the engine will die due to faulty/insufficient OMP injection.
"Yes a rotary won the 24hrs of LeMans" - what does that have to do with anything? Nobody even brought it up. What kind of engine won LeMans EVERY OTHER TIME including in diesel burning form?
"Properly taken care of" - Like I mentioned, 04's didn't inject enough oil. Even if you kept up on your oil levels, premixed, etc, the engine will die due to faulty/insufficient OMP injection.
"Yes a rotary won the 24hrs of LeMans" - what does that have to do with anything? Nobody even brought it up. What kind of engine won LeMans EVERY OTHER TIME including in diesel burning form?
Last edited by savedsol; 08-26-2009 at 10:33 AM.
08-26-2009, 01:18 PM
#43
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klanham, What I noticed when my engine was similar to this. I have an 04 w/ mt. I was experienceing issues when the car got to normal operating temp, like say a run to a convenience store or walmart or something, i noticed it was taking a bit long to get started. It would crank but no start. THeres a TSB about it but in the TSB it states "may happen when cold" So the people at mazda gave me a hard time about it when I brought that up.
I was talking to them and they checked couldn't find anything wrong since I had replaced the plugs and coils recently. Now my car is in the shop getting a new engine at 61k.
I would suggest replacing the coils and plugs first though. When I did I noticed the misfires stopped, the rough idle cleaned up slightly, but i'm guessing the rough idle was due to lack of compression.
To replace the plugs I noticed the easiest way to do that would be to take the driverside front tire off, theres a peice of plastic or rubber over the inside of the wheel well like a mud flap, almost directly on the other side of that on the engine are the spark plugs. Very easy to get to from there, just use a socket wrench with an extension or two and an elbow and you can easily replace all of them from there.
Coils are under the intake tube and also easy to replace. Its 4 ignition wires, 4 wires with clips and 4 nuts. Just disconnect one at a time to advoid mixing up any wires, granted that is still hard to do if you disconnect them all at once.
if you do that and theres still an issue bring it to Mazda and ask them to test compression. Although because of needing a new engine i'm out a week of work. So although covered by warranty, its still managing to cost me several hundred $$s
I was talking to them and they checked couldn't find anything wrong since I had replaced the plugs and coils recently. Now my car is in the shop getting a new engine at 61k.
I would suggest replacing the coils and plugs first though. When I did I noticed the misfires stopped, the rough idle cleaned up slightly, but i'm guessing the rough idle was due to lack of compression.
To replace the plugs I noticed the easiest way to do that would be to take the driverside front tire off, theres a peice of plastic or rubber over the inside of the wheel well like a mud flap, almost directly on the other side of that on the engine are the spark plugs. Very easy to get to from there, just use a socket wrench with an extension or two and an elbow and you can easily replace all of them from there.
Coils are under the intake tube and also easy to replace. Its 4 ignition wires, 4 wires with clips and 4 nuts. Just disconnect one at a time to advoid mixing up any wires, granted that is still hard to do if you disconnect them all at once.
if you do that and theres still an issue bring it to Mazda and ask them to test compression. Although because of needing a new engine i'm out a week of work. So although covered by warranty, its still managing to cost me several hundred $$s
08-26-2009, 01:27 PM
#44
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Considering a rotary has 'failed' when it has lost compression, and often that loss of compression is noticable, but very subtle and only a loss in power. The car is still driveable to a fair degree unless you have blown apex seals. A piston engine on the other hand, when it blowns, your lucky to get it to turn over any more, much less provide any power. I've had it happen.
premixing CAN replace OMP. Several people have disabled their OMP completely and only run premix. using 4-stroke oil injection via the OMP is a patch at best. We need 4 stroke for the bearing and e-shaft, 2-stroke for the chamber.
Sorry, I wrote that with a roll of my eyes. The 24hr of LeMans is often given as an example of the endurance capability under extreme conditions, which has a passing relation to our engines, but hardly directly. I am under no illusions as to thinking this is the end-all of arguements.
Sorry, I wrote that with a roll of my eyes. The 24hr of LeMans is often given as an example of the endurance capability under extreme conditions, which has a passing relation to our engines, but hardly directly. I am under no illusions as to thinking this is the end-all of arguements.
08-26-2009, 03:45 PM
#45
Blackin' Out The 8
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klanham, What I noticed when my engine was similar to this. I have an 04 w/ mt. I was experienceing issues when the car got to normal operating temp, like say a run to a convenience store or walmart or something, i noticed it was taking a bit long to get started. It would crank but no start. THeres a TSB about it but in the TSB it states "may happen when cold" So the people at mazda gave me a hard time about it when I brought that up.
I was talking to them and they checked couldn't find anything wrong since I had replaced the plugs and coils recently. Now my car is in the shop getting a new engine at 61k.
I would suggest replacing the coils and plugs first though. When I did I noticed the misfires stopped, the rough idle cleaned up slightly, but i'm guessing the rough idle was due to lack of compression.
To replace the plugs I noticed the easiest way to do that would be to take the driverside front tire off, theres a peice of plastic or rubber over the inside of the wheel well like a mud flap, almost directly on the other side of that on the engine are the spark plugs. Very easy to get to from there, just use a socket wrench with an extension or two and an elbow and you can easily replace all of them from there.
Coils are under the intake tube and also easy to replace. Its 4 ignition wires, 4 wires with clips and 4 nuts. Just disconnect one at a time to advoid mixing up any wires, granted that is still hard to do if you disconnect them all at once.
if you do that and theres still an issue bring it to Mazda and ask them to test compression. Although because of needing a new engine i'm out a week of work. So although covered by warranty, its still managing to cost me several hundred $$s
I was talking to them and they checked couldn't find anything wrong since I had replaced the plugs and coils recently. Now my car is in the shop getting a new engine at 61k.
I would suggest replacing the coils and plugs first though. When I did I noticed the misfires stopped, the rough idle cleaned up slightly, but i'm guessing the rough idle was due to lack of compression.
To replace the plugs I noticed the easiest way to do that would be to take the driverside front tire off, theres a peice of plastic or rubber over the inside of the wheel well like a mud flap, almost directly on the other side of that on the engine are the spark plugs. Very easy to get to from there, just use a socket wrench with an extension or two and an elbow and you can easily replace all of them from there.
Coils are under the intake tube and also easy to replace. Its 4 ignition wires, 4 wires with clips and 4 nuts. Just disconnect one at a time to advoid mixing up any wires, granted that is still hard to do if you disconnect them all at once.
if you do that and theres still an issue bring it to Mazda and ask them to test compression. Although because of needing a new engine i'm out a week of work. So although covered by warranty, its still managing to cost me several hundred $$s
08-26-2009, 04:24 PM
#46
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08-26-2009, 04:26 PM
#47
Blackin' Out The 8
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08-26-2009, 08:58 PM
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I am more than willing to bet that the problem isnt manfested in the AC use, but rather at this point of the year the AC is always on, and it was mostly listed as circumstantial evidence more than a cause of the problem.
You are right however, that coil problems generally dont manifest related to AC usage, but the AC does still prevent a load to the motor, and once the motor comes to rest at roughly 1k rpm from probably 3k rpm, the added stress from the compressor could draw the motor into a low enough RPM range for an already stressed/failing ignition system to have its final blow (AKA stall).
08-26-2009, 09:00 PM
#49
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I know, late response here...
I am more than willing to bet that the problem isnt manfested in the AC use, but rather at this point of the year the AC is always on, and it was mostly listed as circumstantial evidence more than a cause of the problem.
You are right however, that coil problems generally dont manifest related to AC usage, but the AC does still prevent a load to the motor, and once the motor comes to rest at roughly 1k rpm from probably 3k rpm, the added stress from the compressor could draw the motor into a low enough RPM range for an already stressed/failing ignition system to have its final blow (AKA stall).
I am more than willing to bet that the problem isnt manfested in the AC use, but rather at this point of the year the AC is always on, and it was mostly listed as circumstantial evidence more than a cause of the problem.
You are right however, that coil problems generally dont manifest related to AC usage, but the AC does still prevent a load to the motor, and once the motor comes to rest at roughly 1k rpm from probably 3k rpm, the added stress from the compressor could draw the motor into a low enough RPM range for an already stressed/failing ignition system to have its final blow (AKA stall).
08-27-2009, 07:48 AM
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What happens when the AC is turned off? Are you getting any flashing CEL's, especially at higher RPM?