JeremyG

Ok I've searched and haven't really found DEFINITIVE "formulas" for upgrading the Renesis for power. Many other platforms have done this, I would think the Renesis platform would. I've found scattered info, but nothing all together.

For example, in the Supra world, they know when they put a certain turbo, there's a certain "perfect" size injector, the correct type of fuel controller, and tuning maps. For a different turbo, there's other specific parts that work the best.

Same thing when I had my Dodge Stealth. I knew if I put in 15g turbos, I use 550cc injectors, a S-AFC or an ARC-2.

There isn't any guesswork.

So, is there any info out there for the Renesis? If we put in a certain Supercharger... do we have lists or "kits" of parts that we KNOW work PERFECTLY? (no guesswork?) Or if we put a Turbo in... what do we put in with it?

tskeltonPGA

that sure would be nice to know...i would imagine its kinda like any other engine...you gotta decide if you wanna stay NA or go FI...then plot out your path from there

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

E=mc2

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

I know what he is saying. For example...

http://www.3si.org/wiki/index.php/Staged_Upgrades

Beginning to end upgrade list for the Dodge Stealth and Mitsubishi 3000GT from Fuel Intake to Turbo. Basically you start the process at the bottom with taking your NA to the highest point and then you work your way down the FI path.

JeremyG

Yes, exactly. I've spent probably 8 hours just trying to figure out what to do in order to get 350+ hp... there's a lot of info but nothing is really clear, none of it seems to "mesh".

When I did my Stealth, I knew for my 15g turbos, I'd have to go 550cc injectors, I chose the MAF-T with LS6 throttle body, and a SAFC to fine-tune. It was relatively simple, I made close to 550hp and ran 11.9's at 120mph.

Just seems like not many people are posting "formulas" for going fast in a Renesis car!

deadphoenix52

heres a formula: research before you buy so you dont look dumb.

you obviously bought the wrong car.

ken-x8

Check the "Major horspower upgrades" forum, and maybe stray FI posts scattered in other forums. You'll then know everything that's out there.

The impression I get from casual browsing of that stuff is that there are a few turbo kits out there, none just a straight bolt-on. This isn't a casual paint-by-numbers hot-rodder's car. You'll need to really get into it and figure stuff out yourself. If you do get those 350 HP, though, you'll have accomplished much more than someone who just applied a cookie cutter formula.

Ken

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

First you need lots of money, since this car is not really that *mod friendly*

Pick the turbo kit you think thats worth it. Get upgrades from CRH (coming soon)

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Supra, Dodge Stealth and Mitsubishi 3000GT, you are talking about cars that all ready come with turbos. They are just tweaking what came from the manufacturer.
With the 8 you have to start from scratch. Kits have to be developed by companies that have far less engineering resources than these manufactures.

JeremyG

LOL so much for the idea of a web forum being helpful. You and Brettus must be the pride of RX8club.com


Obviously, this IS research....

alnielson, you do have a point, but even the non-turbo Supras and 3000GTs have formulas for upgrades. Even the RX7 platform has non-turbo "formulas" for upgrading to turbos.

I think one of the issues is that "most" of the RX8's are still under warranty and we don't see a lot of our platform upgrading quite yet. I know I still have 7k miles before I'll do anything (that's when I'm out of warranty).

It's a harder platform to modify, but not impossible. I've done a TON of reading in the Major Horsepower forums and am starting to piece things together.

The point I was making is that someone (someone with more knowledge of this platform than I do) should do some sort of summary post with at least a starting point or something.

At some point, the modification of the 8 will actually be more "cookie cutter" like it has become in other platforms. I've seen it happen (and was instrumental in the progression) in the 3000GT/Stealth platform... it will happen here too!

I do know once I make my decisions on upgrade path, I'll be sharing it with everyone and sharing ALL my tuning info, etc. After all, that's what forums are for, right deadphoenix?

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Define formula?

If you are talking about straight power, you need to figure out how much air to breath to get it.

A rough rule of thumb is lb/min or air * 10 = HP. So if you are breathing 38 lb/min of air then you are making ROUGHLY 380 HP at the crank.

Then all you gotta do is get that much air in the engine...

Rotary Inspired

iTrader: (1)

Any 60-1, gt35R, T04 based turbos w/ a .84-86 hotside will get you what you are looking for. Injectors would be something like stock primary and 1300cc secondary should get you close. Look over on 7 club and you will see.

The problem w/ the reny is the 10:1 compression rotors. You will have to be very careful (conservative) on the tuning. These aren't like piston motors. You can't be aggressive until you see it start to detonate and back off. I don't recomend anyone tune that way, but I have heard of it done. If you do this on a piston motor you can get away w/ it. Try this on a rotary and get read for a $3000+ rebuild.

This motor really isn't boost friendly like the FD and FC TII cars which left the factory boosted. The old N/A cars can be boosted, but very very carefully. They have 9.4:1 or 9.7:1 compression ratios. The later being the hardest.

The biggest issue is the drive by wire on the 8 and several other sensors the ECU controls that most standalone ecus w/ not handle.

As others have said this is not the high hp highway racer. For 350+ hp I would consider a 13b-re out of a 94-96 cosmo. I have one in the garage. Great engines.

Hope that gives you some insight.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Also, Reny most likely will not be rebuilable, have to get a new one if you blow it since the seals will score the housings.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

wrong car how? He's looking to get 350 hp... if the car can do that, how is it wrong? If he said 500 or 600, then it's the wrong car. Might wanna read better before you try to call someone out. Calling someone out is always fun, but only if you do it properly, like this maybe.

From what I've seen, your best bet is the mazsport turbos. You might be able to pull off a custom turbo, but I havnt looked into that and it seems like that would be more costly than a mazsport kit. There isnt really a great formula beyond that, but I see where you're coming from. We have lots of info on specific parts, but not a whole lot of info on good combinations.

Red Devil

I think for this application you're going too large. An Apex RX6 sized turbo (GT30 range, or a little larger) would be better suited to the Renesis and the ~12psi that you can safely run on 10:1 compression and pump gas before detonation sets in. Others here have advocated even smaller turbos.

From speaking with a few RX-8 owners that have GT35s in the .8x a/r range they aren't reaching full boost until a little below 4500rpms...imo, completely unacceptable for anything but a dedicated track car.

The REW has port overlap/timing to work with, something we don't have.

staticlag

lol hes talking about the differences between 10-15 year old cars vs. a 3 year old car that has a unique engine

Ask this question again in 7 years and im sure some formulas will exist

JeremyG

Yeah I'm sure it will... which is why I'm bringing it up NOW.

As I mentioned, I've been in the 3000GT/Stealth community for 7 or 8 years. Just in the last 18 months have REAL gains been seen, and that's mainly because of NEWLY SHARED INFORMATION.

So, maybe the point of my question was to insite discussion so that we can start SHARING INFO NOW instead of 5 or 6 years down the line.

Having a Wiki-type page was great for the 3S community...

I guess the point I'm making is it's never too early to really discuss!

tajabaho1

I know for a fact that mazda maniac has done a bunch of **** to his car, even if he might not have a formula, reading up on his post would give you insight as what "NOT" to do

as for my own contribution, is strictly to ATs, such as, do not switch the AT ecu with the MT ecu, the MT ecu will work on the AT, but the AT ecu will not work on the MT (6spd AT only) also, foils on intake of a naturally aspirated renesis will help alot in hot whether(if you have money, go with the gold racing film from enjuku racing, which do help out alot, especially on the intake pipe aft of the plastic cover (noticeably better idle and mpg increase, especially in hot whether)
but ofcourse, no one really takes my foils seriously

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Your not expecting too much at 350hp. I'ts achievable and I believe achievable now (but not by me). It's already been said that the car has only been on the market for 3-4 years and by a manufacturer that has not been forthcoming on the programing of the ECU nor any FI applications tested. It's been up to the enthusiasts and entrepreneurs to develop go fast mods. While it is a rotary, it's completely different than previous rotaries. The warranty dissuades any mods so development has been very slow. There are several individuals with the knowledge that could possibly set up a sticky post on the different mods and what they will achieve but I think with the diversity of individuals on the forum, it would be a thankless task. Why not approach Rotary God, Mazda Maniac, Charles R. Hill, Kane (sorry if I did not mention your name) or another of the many knowledgeable people on the forum? There could be someone out there that is just waiting to be asked.

tajabaho1

all you could save all your trouble.......pack your bags.....and go to seven stock

Rotary Inspired

iTrader: (1)

I guess I dont see full boost until 4K being an issue. You have until 9K. A smaller turbo will run out of breath up top.

That being said I have yet to turbo a renny. I have done several rx7s from 35rs, 60-1, and a T67. The main problem I see is the 10:1 compression rotors and the thin castings of the renny rotors. Find a way around those problems and you are set.

Red Devil

I'm curious why you think the thin castings are such an issue? From holding Renesis rotors in my hand and comparing them to the older rotors the interior of the appear to be the same bridged/support types. And I don't think to date anyone has cracked one, at least that I've heard/read anyway. In other words, these rotors may be thin, but still should be structurally sound as long as the detonation isn't experienced at like 30+psi.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

You need to talk to Mazda Maniac and Charles R. Hill, I believe there are turbos out there that will spool quicker than that and into the higher range. If you have an a/t then talk to 09Factor. Compression is a question for Rotary God and the guys at Paradox (there are other to talk to but these are the ones I am most familiar with).

CosmosMpower

RX-8+LS6+lots of $-lots of weight=fast

There ya go.

Rotary Inspired

iTrader: (1)

They are too thin on the faces to machine deeper champers to lower compression. The faces are thinner to save weight and allow a higher redline. I have yet to try and machine one down this is what I have heard from a couple folks who get to experiment a little more than me. I am lucky to do 5 or 6 motors a year due to time constraints. I doubt my 8 will get a turbo anytime soon as I seem to keep a turbo rx7 on hand all the time. If I were to turbo my 8 it would be w/ a cosmo motor of some sort 13b or 20b.