first time replacing clutch questions
11-02-2009, 05:45 PM
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first time replacing clutch questions
Hey,
So im hoping to replace my clutch this weekend and have some general questions being someone who has never done this before. First about how much time should i plan on it taking, i was guessing a couple hours but really have no idea. Secondly, when i replace the clutch is it a good idea to replace the flywheel? i am already planning on doing the bearings but was thinking id just clean off the flywheel... Would the stock flywheel fit an aftermarket clutch kit like a centerforce or ACT? Also i was going to order the parts tomorrow so if there is a specific clutch you recommend that info would also be helpful. I was thinking about the kit from pettit (http://www.pettitracing.com/rx8/index_driveline.htm) because it looks like it would still be fine as a daily driver so info about that one in particular would also be nice:D. Also if i should replace the flywheel i was looking at the ACT one but didn't know if i would need the counter weight or not? Any other tips/ things you wish you had known please feel free to post!
So im hoping to replace my clutch this weekend and have some general questions being someone who has never done this before. First about how much time should i plan on it taking, i was guessing a couple hours but really have no idea. Secondly, when i replace the clutch is it a good idea to replace the flywheel? i am already planning on doing the bearings but was thinking id just clean off the flywheel... Would the stock flywheel fit an aftermarket clutch kit like a centerforce or ACT? Also i was going to order the parts tomorrow so if there is a specific clutch you recommend that info would also be helpful. I was thinking about the kit from pettit (http://www.pettitracing.com/rx8/index_driveline.htm) because it looks like it would still be fine as a daily driver so info about that one in particular would also be nice:D. Also if i should replace the flywheel i was looking at the ACT one but didn't know if i would need the counter weight or not? Any other tips/ things you wish you had known please feel free to post!
11-02-2009, 05:52 PM
#2
This included taking our time and a typical pizza break.
Yes
He is our "go-to" guy when it comes to clutches and flywheels.
He'll recommend a kit that fits your needs.
And since this is a daily driver, stick with the Stage 1 kits.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/clutch-flywheel-replacement-experience-170426/
Might give you some insights on what to expect.
11-02-2009, 05:54 PM
#3
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The stock flywheel will be able to work with the aftermarket clutch, but you should replace the flywheel too while you are at it. If you get the ACT flywheel you will need the counter weight.
11-02-2009, 06:25 PM
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It took me about 6 hours to do it the first time.
Here is a thread I made after my first time replacing the flywheel and clutch:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=170426
Might give you some insights on what to expect.
Here is a thread I made after my first time replacing the flywheel and clutch:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=170426
Might give you some insights on what to expect.
awesome this is just what i was looking for earlier but couldn't find. I might have to pick up one of those flywheel nut wrenches. Also PMd charles ray after reading your story...might be worth buying from him just know i have a help line i can call:D
11-02-2009, 09:00 PM
#5
The flywheel nut wrench is very nice to have.
After the first time I used it, I had the "arm" cut off and welded a small pipe to the end.
Then welded a 1/2" adapter to the end of that so I can attach it to an impact wrench or a breaker bar.
My last clutch/flywheel job I did we used the impact wrench and it worked great.
I'll take a pic when I get home in the morning.
Depending on your budget you may want to consider the flywheel stopper and the pilot bearing remover tool (slide hammer) from that same website.
You might be able to rent a slide hammer from the local auto store.
I've heard horror stories of people messing up the bearing with a 3-jaw puller.
Then they had to cut the bearing out!
Speaking of pullers... do you have one to pop the flywheel off?
You'll need one!!!
The alignment tool will come with the clutch kit, but I noticed that its not perfect.
The tool tends to droop down towards rear and I've had to lift it up slightly to get it centered.
Before you install the transmission, look through the pressure plate and see if the disc appears centered.
If its not, loosen the pressure plate bolts, insert the alignment tool, and try again.
Another useful tool I like to use are thumb ratchets.
You can pick these up cheap at Harbor Freight.
They are useful in tight places where you have little travel to turn a regular wrench.
I used it on the slave cylinder.
Also, since you're going through Ray for clutch recommendations, consider buying his HD throw-out bearing.
Just like the flywheel, since you have the transmission down, might as well do what you can then.
After the first time I used it, I had the "arm" cut off and welded a small pipe to the end.
Then welded a 1/2" adapter to the end of that so I can attach it to an impact wrench or a breaker bar.
My last clutch/flywheel job I did we used the impact wrench and it worked great.
I'll take a pic when I get home in the morning.
Depending on your budget you may want to consider the flywheel stopper and the pilot bearing remover tool (slide hammer) from that same website.
You might be able to rent a slide hammer from the local auto store.
I've heard horror stories of people messing up the bearing with a 3-jaw puller.
Then they had to cut the bearing out!
Speaking of pullers... do you have one to pop the flywheel off?
You'll need one!!!
The alignment tool will come with the clutch kit, but I noticed that its not perfect.
The tool tends to droop down towards rear and I've had to lift it up slightly to get it centered.
Before you install the transmission, look through the pressure plate and see if the disc appears centered.
If its not, loosen the pressure plate bolts, insert the alignment tool, and try again.
Another useful tool I like to use are thumb ratchets.
You can pick these up cheap at Harbor Freight.
They are useful in tight places where you have little travel to turn a regular wrench.
I used it on the slave cylinder.
Also, since you're going through Ray for clutch recommendations, consider buying his HD throw-out bearing.
Just like the flywheel, since you have the transmission down, might as well do what you can then.
Last edited by Jon316G; 11-02-2009 at 09:03 PM.
11-02-2009, 09:47 PM
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yea whether i get a kit from ray or not ill be replacing the throw-out bearing and the pilot bearings. I saw the tool for removing the pilot bearing, but if i got that and the other tools id be sitting at saving only $30 for doing it myself, and since i wouldn't consider myself car savvy (ive just done brakes and oil) that wouldn't be worth it. as for parts like a puller ive made a list of these things and plan to ask my friend, we are going to do it in his garage and he has tons of tools (cross fingers).
11-03-2009, 11:23 PM
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Some advice from a guy who did this a few weeks ago.
If you choose to reuse the flywheel, that's your choice. But make sure the surface is clean and smooth. The FSM IIRC says to use light sandpaper to smoothen, but obviously don't if it's bad; have it resurfaced (OR GET A LIGHTWEIGHT).
If you choose aftermarket flywheel, almost all of them will need a counterweight. This is because the stock flywheel is imbalanced purposfully to counteract the engine rotors' vibrations. Most likely you get an aftermarket flywheel that is centerbalanced, and so, you will need a counterweight bolted to the new flywheel to do that very same job. I used a 89-95 Rx7 automatic counterweight and it works perfectly.
It's only once or twice that the average Rx8 owner will get to see the pilot bearing, so change it while you have the opportunity. In my car, at 81,000 miles, the pilot bearing seal was squished up bad. So change both, the pilot bearing, and the seal. If you have an Autozone around, rent their "Blind hole" puller tool as one of the fittings work perfectly for our small pilots, and you get a full refund upon return of the tool.
Um,
the 54mm flywheel nut is truly a pain. Go about it smartly. The special breaker bar tool will work, yes, but it's hard to get leverage on it. That is, is you're doing this at home on jackstands...unless you have a friend with strong chi...
Have a friend help you.
Jon above was right about the clutch disc tool being inefficient. He actually pointed that out to me in my own 'I needs helps" thread. It makes for the disc drooping downward a bit, which causes transmission mounting problems. All I can say is trust your eyes more than the tool, make note of its angle before torquing pressure plate bolts, and use the force.
Make sure the engine is raised a bit with a jack before reinstalling the tranny, it makes alignment a lot easier. I had my tranny on a 3ton jack, no straps, not wooden board, nothing, just balanced on the little contact plate. I'd never be able to put the tranny on with the angle the loose engine is at.
Oh, and if you need the 54mm breaker bar, I have Racing Beat's and can rent it out to you if you need it.
If you choose to reuse the flywheel, that's your choice. But make sure the surface is clean and smooth. The FSM IIRC says to use light sandpaper to smoothen, but obviously don't if it's bad; have it resurfaced (OR GET A LIGHTWEIGHT).
If you choose aftermarket flywheel, almost all of them will need a counterweight. This is because the stock flywheel is imbalanced purposfully to counteract the engine rotors' vibrations. Most likely you get an aftermarket flywheel that is centerbalanced, and so, you will need a counterweight bolted to the new flywheel to do that very same job. I used a 89-95 Rx7 automatic counterweight and it works perfectly.
It's only once or twice that the average Rx8 owner will get to see the pilot bearing, so change it while you have the opportunity. In my car, at 81,000 miles, the pilot bearing seal was squished up bad. So change both, the pilot bearing, and the seal. If you have an Autozone around, rent their "Blind hole" puller tool as one of the fittings work perfectly for our small pilots, and you get a full refund upon return of the tool.
Um,
the 54mm flywheel nut is truly a pain. Go about it smartly. The special breaker bar tool will work, yes, but it's hard to get leverage on it. That is, is you're doing this at home on jackstands...unless you have a friend with strong chi...
Have a friend help you.
Jon above was right about the clutch disc tool being inefficient. He actually pointed that out to me in my own 'I needs helps" thread. It makes for the disc drooping downward a bit, which causes transmission mounting problems. All I can say is trust your eyes more than the tool, make note of its angle before torquing pressure plate bolts, and use the force.
Make sure the engine is raised a bit with a jack before reinstalling the tranny, it makes alignment a lot easier. I had my tranny on a 3ton jack, no straps, not wooden board, nothing, just balanced on the little contact plate. I'd never be able to put the tranny on with the angle the loose engine is at.
Oh, and if you need the 54mm breaker bar, I have Racing Beat's and can rent it out to you if you need it.
11-04-2009, 08:01 AM
#8
Good advice all---doing it yourself you also learn a lot and get to look at a lot more stuff (like its easy to see why the cup holder gets hot).
I ended up using guide studs in centering my trans during the reinstall---the alignment can be a pain if you are working on your back in the driveway on jackstands.
OD
I ended up using guide studs in centering my trans during the reinstall---the alignment can be a pain if you are working on your back in the driveway on jackstands.
OD
11-04-2009, 08:31 AM
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i ended up buying the ACT HDSS clutch kit and prolite flywheel from thmotorsports, if you call them up they actually give you a better deal than what was posted in the vendor forum. Ill make sure to post about how it goes when we get done this weekend. Im excited to try out the new flywheel, and to be able to drive my car without the clutch slipping horribly.
11-08-2009, 08:31 PM
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So we ended up not able to do it, got all the part inside teh car taken apart, got going on the bottom but we couldn't take the exhaust out. The rubber things the exhaust hangs on wouldn't come off with trying to pry with a screwdriver and wd40. since getting home and researching ive seen that maybe using dishsoap and water might help but it was ridiculous not being able to jam the a screwdriver in there. from the pictures it looked like you could get one in there and stretch the hole out a couple inches. Might give it a try again tomorrow with that but if it doesn't work i may break down, put it all together and drive it somewhere to make someone else deal with it.
11-08-2009, 09:40 PM
#12
Not to sound like a dick Islixat but if the rubber grommets were too much for you today, maybe you really should consider taking this to someone else because it will only get more challenging from here.
BUT if you really want to try this yourself, I can respect that.
Here is a tip that I use for removing the grommets.
Move the grommet AWAY from the end of the hanger (you won't get it to move much further).
Then put dishsoap on your hand and rub it on the exposed end of the hanger.
Sometimes I can lubricate it enough to remove the grommet by hand alone (still requires a little bit of muscle).
If you can't get it off by hand, stick a long screwdriver through the middle opening of the grommet and pry it off.
Good luck!
BUT if you really want to try this yourself, I can respect that.
Here is a tip that I use for removing the grommets.
Move the grommet AWAY from the end of the hanger (you won't get it to move much further).
Then put dishsoap on your hand and rub it on the exposed end of the hanger.
Sometimes I can lubricate it enough to remove the grommet by hand alone (still requires a little bit of muscle).
If you can't get it off by hand, stick a long screwdriver through the middle opening of the grommet and pry it off.
Good luck!
11-09-2009, 06:48 AM
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thats what we were trying to do, except we used wd40 which i was assuming would be fine. we put it over the fat tip and along the exposed metal part, but we couldn't get it to slide at all, we actually bent the steel part the rubber butts up against trying to get the screwdriver to slide in.
It wasn't that we didn't know what to do as much as we just weren't able to get it to move. I would agree that it is something i couldn't do myself, but seeing as the guy i had helping me has done his own clutch/transmission and rebuilt the engine on his 240sx i assume he is knowledgeable enough.
It wasn't that we didn't know what to do as much as we just weren't able to get it to move. I would agree that it is something i couldn't do myself, but seeing as the guy i had helping me has done his own clutch/transmission and rebuilt the engine on his 240sx i assume he is knowledgeable enough.
11-09-2009, 07:13 AM
#14
IMO WD-40 doesn't lubricate as well as dishsoap.
In my experience, the WD-40 tended to make the rubber grommet sticky/tacky.
Also, don't try to insert the screwdriver between the grommet and the hanger (you'll never get one to squeeze between the two).
Instead, insert the screwdriver in the opening at the center of the grommet between the hanger for the exhaust and the hanger for the car.
In my experience, the WD-40 tended to make the rubber grommet sticky/tacky.
Also, don't try to insert the screwdriver between the grommet and the hanger (you'll never get one to squeeze between the two).
Instead, insert the screwdriver in the opening at the center of the grommet between the hanger for the exhaust and the hanger for the car.
11-09-2009, 07:39 AM
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In my experience, the WD-40 tended to make the rubber grommet sticky/tacky.
Also, don't try to insert the screwdriver between the grommet and the hanger (you'll never get one to squeeze between the two).
Instead, insert the screwdriver in the opening at the center of the grommet between the hanger for the exhaust and the hanger for the car.
Also, don't try to insert the screwdriver between the grommet and the hanger (you'll never get one to squeeze between the two).
Instead, insert the screwdriver in the opening at the center of the grommet between the hanger for the exhaust and the hanger for the car.
so you are saying put the screwdriver in the hole where there isn't a metal pole at twist instead of like:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-easy-exhaust-hanger-removal-w-o-special-tools-182362/
?
we actually didn't try that, we just tried to pull it using a tool he had for his 240sx for about 30 m inutes, and when it became obvious that wouldn't work we looked on teh forum and found that thread, tried that method (with wd40, we didn't read down far enough to see dishsoap works better) for about an hour and a half each.
If you look at those pictures though he is able to lay the screwdriver flat (parrallel) with the bar that goes into the rubber, however we weren't because on my exhaust (stock) there is a metal plate on that side that while trying to pry the screwdriver in we bent. from those pictures it looks like he has a lot more room to work with on his exhaust than we did as well. Is this a difference between model years or does he have an aftermarket exhaust?
11-09-2009, 08:15 AM
#18
Standing by with napkins for your tears.....
Don't give up though. I was not much of a mechanic, still not really, but I have done most of my own work on my 8 and it has been worth every busted knuckle and cut I have gotten from my projects. I replaced my exhaust by my self a few weeks ago, and although it took a long time, and I cut a huge gash in my arm, it was totally worth it. I will be attempting this same job later in the winter, and I know it will take me longer than it would take a mechanic, but I will get more satisfaction out of it. It is a learning like OD said earlier. Good Luck!
Don't give up though. I was not much of a mechanic, still not really, but I have done most of my own work on my 8 and it has been worth every busted knuckle and cut I have gotten from my projects. I replaced my exhaust by my self a few weeks ago, and although it took a long time, and I cut a huge gash in my arm, it was totally worth it. I will be attempting this same job later in the winter, and I know it will take me longer than it would take a mechanic, but I will get more satisfaction out of it. It is a learning like OD said earlier. Good Luck!
11-09-2009, 08:54 AM
#19
btw: when reassembling you may want to consider polyurethane 'doughnuts' to replace the stock rubber.
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...t-hangers.html
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...t-hangers.html
11-09-2009, 08:57 AM
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btw: when reassembling you may want to consider polyurethane 'doughnuts' to replace the stock rubber.
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...t-hangers.html
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...t-hangers.html
11-09-2009, 09:05 AM
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Standing by with napkins for your tears.....
Don't give up though. I was not much of a mechanic, still not really, but I have done most of my own work on my 8 and it has been worth every busted knuckle and cut I have gotten from my projects. I replaced my exhaust by my self a few weeks ago, and although it took a long time, and I cut a huge gash in my arm, it was totally worth it. I will be attempting this same job later in the winter, and I know it will take me longer than it would take a mechanic, but I will get more satisfaction out of it. It is a learning like OD said earlier. Good Luck!
Don't give up though. I was not much of a mechanic, still not really, but I have done most of my own work on my 8 and it has been worth every busted knuckle and cut I have gotten from my projects. I replaced my exhaust by my self a few weeks ago, and although it took a long time, and I cut a huge gash in my arm, it was totally worth it. I will be attempting this same job later in the winter, and I know it will take me longer than it would take a mechanic, but I will get more satisfaction out of it. It is a learning like OD said earlier. Good Luck!
honestly everythign else up till that point was very easy (except the stupid plastic covers on the bolts where teh shifter is, those were a pain but not a huge deal). And looking at the instructions and details nothing after that seems very difficult except teh pilot bearing. And im going to get a tool from autozone for that. I got an uber torque wrench for the flywheel that a guy with a 7 is letting me borrow. So it shouldn't be difficult unless i run into more crap like this. And i feel the pace we were going was fairly quick as well up to that point, took like 45 minutes to do all the inside stuff and about 30 minutes to get to the point where we were tryign to take down the exhaust. (aside from taking time to jack up the car)
11-09-2009, 09:07 AM
#22
i use a drum brake adjustment tool (get them at any auto parts store for 3-4 dollars. It has a very small end thats round and tapers to a bigger size + after a certain distance is bends to a 90% so you have more leverage to work the hanger and mount. Works like a charm--take sme maybe 20-30 seconds to get it off now.
OD
OD
11-09-2009, 09:15 AM
#24
That would be true if we were driving a Lexus, where you want to be insulated from every possible mechanical feedback, but we like our sportscars tight! 
In this context we want to more resist the inertial movement of the exhaust, much as we prefer stiffer sway bars and the addition of a tower brace.
All design is compromise and dependent on end needs/desires.
In this context we want to more resist the inertial movement of the exhaust, much as we prefer stiffer sway bars and the addition of a tower brace.
All design is compromise and dependent on end needs/desires.
11-09-2009, 09:18 AM
#25
The Professor
im not really planning on giving up, don't have the money to give up honestly everythign else up till that point was very easy (except the stupid plastic covers on the bolts where teh shifter is, those were a pain but not a huge deal). And looking at the instructions and details nothing after that seems very difficult except teh pilot bearing. And im going to get a tool from autozone for that. I got an uber torque wrench for the flywheel that a guy with a 7 is letting me borrow. So it shouldn't be difficult unless i run into more crap like this. And i feel the pace we were going was fairly quick as well up to that point, took like 45 minutes to do all the inside stuff and about 30 minutes to get to the point where we were tryign to take down the exhaust. (aside from taking time to jack up the car)
honestly everythign else up till that point was very easy (except the stupid plastic covers on the bolts where teh shifter is, those were a pain but not a huge deal). And looking at the instructions and details nothing after that seems very difficult except teh pilot bearing. And im going to get a tool from autozone for that. I got an uber torque wrench for the flywheel that a guy with a 7 is letting me borrow. So it shouldn't be difficult unless i run into more crap like this. And i feel the pace we were going was fairly quick as well up to that point, took like 45 minutes to do all the inside stuff and about 30 minutes to get to the point where we were tryign to take down the exhaust. (aside from taking time to jack up the car)