rxeightr

Changed the oil & filter myself over the weekend - took all of 30 minutes. Bought a oil wrench & 5W-20 oil at Wally World. Didn't even have to get under the car, as I was able to loosen the drain pan nut from the passenger side.

Put in 4 quarts, with 2000 miles on odometer. The oil was more black in color than new oil, however it was not as opaque like I get when changing oil in my small-block Chevy V-8's.

Before changing oil, the RX-8's dipstick has not shown any oil consumption.

Kurt Bob

I see that a few of you folks have made comments about changing oil at 2500 or 3000 miles ... and also commenting about the color of the oil.

The changing color of the oil just shows that the oil is doing its job. You can't make a case for added contaminants in the oil just because it looks dirty. Changing your oil at 3000 miles is just putting more money in the pockets of the oil company exec's.

I will be doing my first oil change at 3,700 miles and then at the recommended 7,500 miles thereafter.

B-Nez

Thanks for that tip. I just did the same thing this evening. I turned the wheels all the way to left to facilitate reaching the drain plug. I also used one of those giant cookie sheets () - what a brilliant idea. Anyway, I've found that for the factory-installed filters, even the cap-style filter wrench will slip and not loosen the filter one bit. The fix for this is Saran Wrap. Get a 4-inch piece or so, and fold it in half lengthwise. Wrap this snugly around the end of the filter and wrench as usual. It still slips, but loosens the filter very effectively.

Here are my tools of the trade:

RarestRX

Yo,

I can't tell you the horror stories I've had with "Tire Monkeys." Lifting the car wrong, bad balance, scratched rims. All of that.

I'm dreading when I can finally get some nice forged Volk Racing rims and have to take it to some tire monkey that will f*ck them up.

"Those are $400 EACH you moron!"

Oy.

Kevin
1989 GTUs "Smog and Tires...my nemesis."

MSMAMBA

OMG.. I can't believe I will have to go through the pain I had with my 02 MPV.

Lucky that I now have that "special" tool, which I twisted the original oil filter into an odd shape when I took it out.

Btw, the screwdriver thingie didn't work on the MPV. My crazy clamp-like oil wrench did the work pretty good after stripping a cap-style filter wrench.

Took me almost 2 hours and 2 trips to the auto store to do my 1st oil change on the minivan. I don't even want to mention how messy that was!

mikeb

what is the sran wrap for

zoom44

to keep the slightly oversized filter wrench from slipping, while trying to break the filter loose.

mikeb

oh

LTAGFERN

. . . and speaking of oil changes, is it ever necessary (or possible) to drain 'used' oil from the oil coolers? During the entire 'life' of my car, will oil 'changes' always consist of draining 3.5 quarts from the total oil capacity and then adding fresh oil to that oil that remains in the coolers? Will my engine NEVER experience a complete refill with fresh oil?

1fine8

I took the 8 in for an oil change Saturday. It held 4.2 quarts of oil not the 3.7 quarts of oil stated in the manual. I stood next to the Mazda technician and watched him the whole time. It took them about 1 hour to do it. The technician thought he was never going to remove the oil filter. I wanted Mazda oil but had to settle for Pennzoil 5W20.

The car looks very nice and areodynamic from the bottom side.

rxeightr

Mine took a full 4 quarts to get the dipstick back to the full mark.

pgtr

Interesting thread. Here's my take on a few issues:

=========

"the oil filter is tight because if it falls off its bad, and it does happen"

I don't think so. Oil filters should be put on hand tight and and next time they are removed can be removed by hand. Other than addressing someone elses handiwork - I have NEVER needed an oil filter wrench. If you need one then it was on too tight in the first place.

My personal rule of thumb is to spin it on until the seal seats and then turn it by hand about a 1/2 turn or so.

=========

This business about poking holes in the top of the oil filter to let it drain into rotaries is probably the biggest myth I've ever heard of w/ respect to rotaries. It's been around for decades now. The oil is NOT held in the filter by a vacuum and poking a hole does nothing.

All I can say is drain the oil and then while it is draining take the filter off. Wrap wrags around it's base. Depending on filter design you can let it sit for quite a while and it may help. Giving it half a spin and letting it sit a while may also help. But the bottom line is that, depending on filter design, it's just plain messy and poking a hole is something that should be submitted to Discovery Channel's Mythbusters.

=========

"Since oil changes in a rotary (As I understand it) are typically more frequent due to the oil being contaminated with fuel, not combustion byproduct, carbon etc... then the filter should not be an issue... at least that's the way I see it... I'm sure somone else will be able to comment."

Indeed. Just what is blow-by then if it's not burned fuel and where does this non-blow-by fuel come from in the oil if it doesn't come from blowby?

=========

"(Mazda label on the containers - I assume that is rebadged Castrol as the service bay had Castrol banners everywhere)."

I bet Mazda wishes they exerted that kind of control over their stealerships. Truth is that any relation between castrol and Mazda labeled oil products is purely coincidental. Your dealer buys Castrol from a local distributor at wholesale. And it's a lot cheaper than their wholesale cost on Mazda labeled fluids I bet! Your dealership is owned by someone who probably owns various dealers around town for various makes. Dollars to donuts says that every one of those dealers probably have the same Castrol banners.




=========

"Always go with the manual's recommendation, at least while in warranty."

Yep.

I know this is small comfort but if the 'stealer' uses the wrong oil to save a buck for themselves or whatever - you have a receipt showing they changed it in the event of a warranty claim especially if the claim were denied because the engine was found to have the wrong oil. Save your receipts if you have it done and if you do it yourself save the receipts for both the oil and filter you purchased.


=========

Kurt Bob:
"I see that a few of you folks have made comments about changing oil at 2500 or 3000 miles ... and also commenting about the color of the oil.
The changing color of the oil just shows that the oil is doing its job. You can't make a case for added contaminants in the oil just because it looks dirty. Changing your oil at 3000 miles is just putting more money in the pockets of the oil company exec's.
I will be doing my first oil change at 3,700 miles and then at the recommended 7,500 miles thereafter."

Kurt Bob! You da man!!! Bingo on all your comments.

I'll also add that in some cases (I don't know about Mazda) the factory fill is a special break-in oil and it should be left in for precisely the full amount of time the manual states. Changing it prematurely may not allow some engines to fully or correclty wear in. I don't know at all whether that is the case in the Renesis but that it has been true sometimes in the past for some makers. Food for thought or further research/discussion.

mikeb

I'd rather be safe than sorry
I changed my oil at 3k and will continue to do so every 3k

91vert

If this is the case, then why did I hear a nice steady trickle of oil start flowing into my oilpan about 2 seconds after I did this? Before I poked the hole it was done draining and just dripping occasionally. As soon as I poked the hole about another 1/4 cup of oil drained out.

pgtr

Probably because you didn't have the radio turned up loud enough.

But the funny thing is I've heard that very same sound and I didn't even have to poke the mythical hole. If there's a vacuum how come I can hear that sound too?

But if you REALLY believe there is a vacuum holding the oil in place - you could fill up the filter and invert it over (preferrably not over anything important) and prove the vacuum theory right?

Like I said this is an urban legend firmly entrenched in rotary-dom - it's not likely me or anyone else will likely debunk it but then nobody seems willing ot invert a full oil filter over their prize collection of whatever... If the hole makes you feel better and your convinced it's releasing this purproted vacuum - it's no big deal.

------------------

For those that are new to rotaries and understand how a vacuum does and does not work, when changing oil/filter I suggest removing the drain plug and letting it set a good while. After a bit turn the filter maybe a 1/2 turn or so but not to the point that it leaks at it's seal. Let it set a bit longer and wrap a couple old rags carefully around it's base. Then spin it off and upright it ASAP. After a few tries you'll find you don't make much of a mess at all.

The amount of oil mess you end up w/ does tend to vary based on the brand and type of filter. On the old 12As and 13Bs there was a tall stack filter and short stack filter. The newer filter books list the short stack but the taller one is still available (same price) and on the shelves. I can no longer remember which ones but either the tall or short one tended to drain better and some brands are better drainer than others. I don't know what the filter # is for the new Renesis or if you have many options yet for brands. (if anybody does have a part # post a fram# - many people hate this brand but it is the standard for cross references at least!)

Good luck!

KKMmaniac

Still not sure about the hole-poking deal on the RX8, but I know it helps make oil spillage non-existent on 1st and 2nd gen. RX7s. (even shown as part of the procedure in the owner's manual)

Perhaps the angled filter on the RX8 drains as well (or as poorly)without poking a hole in it?

pgtr

Keep in mind:

The procedure in the owners manual is for changing the filter ONLY and does not presume the filler cap or drain plug have been removed and are currently open when the filter is being removed.

---

While on the subject does anybody know the 'correct' design for a vintage or Renesis rotary oil filter?

Do they spec an anti-drainback valve?

Do they spec the inside tube to be solid to the top or perforated?

Do they spec a location (top?) for the bypass valve?

It's been quite a while since I've dabbled in these things and am going by memory...

thanks,

joelsrx8

I'll give another angle on poking a hole in the filter. My '79 Ferrari has the filter mounted on top of the engine, spill side down. Even better, if you spill a bunch of oil, it goes straight down the side of the block and into the air hole in the transmission. Not a good thing.

Anyway, when the hole poking thing came up on the DIY email list, they had three things to say

1) Poking a hole in it will likely throw some metal shards into your filter and into the oil. (which then drains through your oil system). Probably not a great idea for the longevity of your engine
2) If you can't get the dang filter off (see first poster), you can't very well get the car to someone who can.
3) So, the technique they all use is to run the car out on the street and get the oil nice and hot, bring it back to the garage, then turn it off, open the plug, and let it sit for an hour or two. They get enough drainage that way to minimize the amount that comes out of the filter (though you still need to pack rags all around the base of the filter).

Take it for what it's worth.

khoney

FYI, the Filter wrench is an F-size - it actually has two stacked fittings on it - the inner fitting is what fits the RX-8. At Pep Boys, there is one with Model number A255 at the top of the package.

mpheinitz

The oil filter is tight from the factory mostly because they are put on dry. All mfgs do it this way. That's why it is important to lube the gasket before installation.

YMMV

-Michael

:p

djantlive

I don't know what's the deal with hard oil changes.

Yes, the first oil change is harder and requires the oil filter wrench (with a rachet, not the handle type). Most shops will over tighten your filter so use up your free maintainance first and don't go back and force.

With oil just put 3.5 qt in, read the dip stick and add more if needed. put some in the filter to soak the elements.

get an ramp for $20 if you need the clearence. It's the easiest way to get under the car. don't use scissor jacks, it's not safe and will kill you when it collapses.

after the first change, your oil change should only take 15-20 min plus some clean up time. don't forget to recycle.

buy a case of oil that's on sale for $.79 at kragen or something. don't pay by quart - it'll save you 1/2 the cost on oil.

get the oem filter, it's one of the best. never use a filter without a anti drain back valve.

pgtr

But that's the whole point - neither the factory nor the shops seem to know how to properly install a filter. But your point is well taken - either let shops do it or do it yourself - but intermixing the two as sometimes problematic I guess.

Probably more like 4 qt no? At least after the filter is filled up and retains some oil via it's anti-drainback valve. It's an INVERTED filter arrangement as are all rotaries - it's not so simple to just fill it and install it like on a Chevy 350. After lubing the seal you either install it dry or try and coax some oil down past the anti-drainback valve though few people bother to do this. Does the owners manual speak to this operation? The purpose of pre-filling any oil filter is not to soak the element per se but to reduce the initial brief dry-start condition.


I STRONGLY agree on those safety points! Some cars are thoughtfully laid out as to changing the oil w/ ease and lack of mess and minimize or reduce the need to jack. I doubt the Rx8 is one but we will see.

One problem w/ many modenr sportier cars is low front overhang that may 'hit' many ramps - may want to verify this if you go the ramp route - or just use a good floor jack w/ jack stands. There are options for low angle ramps if it's needed.

You simply can't be too safe when it comes to raising a car.

I'll add to ensure that you should check that the house brand oils are API certified. W/ regular oil change schedules any oil w/ current API service designations are just fine.

I want to say that the filters sold thru the dealers are not the same as those installed by the factory in Japan. Further in many cases of Japanese car dealers they are the same as many sold in stores under common brands. There are only a handfull of major filter makers in the US and I have looked at them and been very impressed by each w/ the notable exceptoin of Fram. I've racked up 100s of 1000s of miles on rotaries w/ filters from Purolator, CHampion Labs and Wix/Dana and even a decade or more ago even those glued together cardboard jobs painted orange. ACDelco and Motorcrafts are fine too though many are made by Champ Labs. The PSI bypass settings for Wix and Purolator seems to always be correct and I have little doubt CHamp Labs wouldn't be as well presuming such a device is spec'd.

As far as most rotaries including the Rx8 goes I'm think the anti-drainback IS spec'd (makes sense w/ an inverted filter) BUT that's not true of all cars. But even so it never hurts to have it. To simplify manufacturing these daysI think virtually all modern oil filtes come w/ them whehter they are needed or not. I rarely see a filter w/o one and when I do it's just a holdover and intended for cars not needing such a device. At least not in the brands I use.

thanks,

Rotary Nut

What type of oil did you use, dino or synth?

I had a similar experience trying to get the filter off of my old RSX type S. It was at the rear of the engine right next to the down pipe of the exhaust manifold. Basicly it took a monkey wrench and a 10" C-clamp to get that bastard off and it dripped oil all over the CV joint and subframe!

Rotary Nut

As long as I let the dealer perform the oil changes and services I have free tires for life! With a tread wear rating of 160 I plan on going thru a ton of tires! The deal comes complete with a road hazard warranty so I basicly pay for nada. just put in the gas, wash it and insure it and I have nothing left to worry about!

Tony_Montana

have a quick question. what if you were to over fill with the oil like the post starter did? would it cause damage? why can the oil compartment thingy hold more oil then it should? i dont get it.