First oil change.....what a mess!
08-25-2003, 10:58 PM
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First oil change.....what a mess!
Sorta lengthy, but worth reading if you are doing your own oil changes:
OK.....my car has been overdue for an oil change already in my opinion (2300 miles), so I bought the stuff today and started in on it tonight.
I got the car jacked up, slid underneath with my oil pan and wrench, removed the drain plug, and started to let the oil drain. On my RX-7 I always punctured an air hole in the top of the oil filter to help the old oil drain from the filter before removing it, so I did that. It helps minimize the amount of oil that spills all over the side of the engine. Thanks Mazda for locating the filter in such a spill-free spot on these rotaries!! ***sarcasm***
Now the "fun" begins. First of all, because of the perfect location of the filter (sarcasm again) I could not even get my oil filter wrench or my hand in a spot to get any leverage on the thing to twist it off. I don't have a little tiny Japanese hand to reach back into the 1" area of clearance around where the filter resides. After taking my watch and wedding ring off because they kept snagging on everything, I could finally fit my arm under a couple of vacuum lines and an A/C refrigerant hose to get a good grip on the filter with my hand. WHAT THE HELL DID THEY TORQUE THIS FILTER AT IN THE FACTORY???? That ***** was cranked down tight! I twisted it as hard as I could, knuckles bleeding and hands half burnt up from the hot under-hood components I had to touch, and I could not get that filter to budge. I had heard of others driving a screwdriver through a overtightened oil filter before to get it cracked loose, so that's what I had to do. I got a long screwdriver and popped it through the filter. I was finally able to get it loose. The thing was all mangled to hell when I finally pulled it out from under the hood. I would have posted a pic of it, but I was too embarassed about what I had to do to get it off.
I get the new oil filter on, and replaced the drain plug. I dump in 5 quarts of oil. My RX-7 usually takes about 5 1/2 quarts, so I had another quart on standby to use after checking the level with the dipstick.....which is also a bitch to read by the way. I clean off the stick, shove it in, pull it out, and the oil level is about an inch and a half above the full mark!!!
I get the manual out, which I admit I should have done first, and find that it only takes 3.7 quarts with a filter change. ****!!! I had to loosen the drain plug and drain out what seemed to be about a quart and a half to get it down to the full mark. I cannot believe that this engine only takes about 3.5 quarts of oil. WTF???
Anyway.....that oil change was the most complicated oil change I have ever done due to an overtightened filter that could not be reached, and my ignorance of not reading the manual to find out what the capacity was first. I just assumed that since it was a 13B rotary that the oil capacity would be about the same as my 7.
You do-it-yourselfer's be forewarned about this stuff before you try to tackle what we all know to usually be a 10 minute job. Took me about an hour when it was all said and done.
OK.....my car has been overdue for an oil change already in my opinion (2300 miles), so I bought the stuff today and started in on it tonight.
I got the car jacked up, slid underneath with my oil pan and wrench, removed the drain plug, and started to let the oil drain. On my RX-7 I always punctured an air hole in the top of the oil filter to help the old oil drain from the filter before removing it, so I did that. It helps minimize the amount of oil that spills all over the side of the engine. Thanks Mazda for locating the filter in such a spill-free spot on these rotaries!! ***sarcasm***
Now the "fun" begins. First of all, because of the perfect location of the filter (sarcasm again) I could not even get my oil filter wrench or my hand in a spot to get any leverage on the thing to twist it off. I don't have a little tiny Japanese hand to reach back into the 1" area of clearance around where the filter resides. After taking my watch and wedding ring off because they kept snagging on everything, I could finally fit my arm under a couple of vacuum lines and an A/C refrigerant hose to get a good grip on the filter with my hand. WHAT THE HELL DID THEY TORQUE THIS FILTER AT IN THE FACTORY???? That ***** was cranked down tight! I twisted it as hard as I could, knuckles bleeding and hands half burnt up from the hot under-hood components I had to touch, and I could not get that filter to budge. I had heard of others driving a screwdriver through a overtightened oil filter before to get it cracked loose, so that's what I had to do. I got a long screwdriver and popped it through the filter. I was finally able to get it loose. The thing was all mangled to hell when I finally pulled it out from under the hood. I would have posted a pic of it, but I was too embarassed about what I had to do to get it off.
I get the new oil filter on, and replaced the drain plug. I dump in 5 quarts of oil. My RX-7 usually takes about 5 1/2 quarts, so I had another quart on standby to use after checking the level with the dipstick.....which is also a bitch to read by the way. I clean off the stick, shove it in, pull it out, and the oil level is about an inch and a half above the full mark!!!
I get the manual out, which I admit I should have done first, and find that it only takes 3.7 quarts with a filter change. ****!!! I had to loosen the drain plug and drain out what seemed to be about a quart and a half to get it down to the full mark. I cannot believe that this engine only takes about 3.5 quarts of oil. WTF??? Anyway.....that oil change was the most complicated oil change I have ever done due to an overtightened filter that could not be reached, and my ignorance of not reading the manual to find out what the capacity was first. I just assumed that since it was a 13B rotary that the oil capacity would be about the same as my 7.
You do-it-yourselfer's be forewarned about this stuff before you try to tackle what we all know to usually be a 10 minute job. Took me about an hour when it was all said and done.
Last edited by 91vert; 08-25-2003 at 11:00 PM.
08-25-2003, 11:14 PM
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Like I said on another thread.. Mazda has hired the strongest man (started an anabolic steroid cycle at age 5 and has never come off) in Japan with a Kung-Fu Grip. He stands by the assembly line with the sole purpose of tightening oil filters. He uses an oil filter wrench that has a 6 foot pipe on it to get that extra leverage.
Oh yeah, trussvillemazda.com has the oil filter wrench that you'll need for then next time.
Oh yeah, trussvillemazda.com has the oil filter wrench that you'll need for then next time.
08-25-2003, 11:14 PM
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I think I would rather pay my dealer $16 to do all that at my 1000 miles unscheduled service (most scheduled oil changes are free). I know they have done an oil change on their demo car so they won't be learning on mine..
08-25-2003, 11:22 PM
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I had mine changed at 2500mi by the dealer and was worried the moment they got in my car. The "mechanic" couldn't get my car in reverse to pull it into the bay. I instructed him on how it was done. He then proceded to stall my car twice before reaching his destination about 150 ft away. He missed a lift point when jacking up the car (not a real big deal, but it looked like it could have bent the underside if positioned a little worse. They, too, had such issues pulling off the filter. They used a good size wrench to break it loose.
Even at 2500 mi, the oil looked pretty dirty. I wonder why? Maybe it was my imagination.
Even at 2500 mi, the oil looked pretty dirty. I wonder why? Maybe it was my imagination.
08-26-2003, 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by rxtreme
I had mine changed at 2500mi by the dealer and was worried the moment they got in my car. The "mechanic" couldn't get my car in reverse to pull it into the bay. I instructed him on how it was done. He then proceded to stall my car twice before reaching his destination about 150 ft away. He missed a lift point when jacking up the car (not a real big deal, but it looked like it could have bent the underside if positioned a little worse. They, too, had such issues pulling off the filter. They used a good size wrench to break it loose.
I had mine changed at 2500mi by the dealer and was worried the moment they got in my car. The "mechanic" couldn't get my car in reverse to pull it into the bay. I instructed him on how it was done. He then proceded to stall my car twice before reaching his destination about 150 ft away. He missed a lift point when jacking up the car (not a real big deal, but it looked like it could have bent the underside if positioned a little worse. They, too, had such issues pulling off the filter. They used a good size wrench to break it loose.
I just don't trust anybody working on my car. Shoot....your "mechanic" could not even DRIVE the car, let alone work on it.
08-26-2003, 02:27 AM
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Two things:
1) The oil system takes more than 3.5 quarts, it's just that only 3.5 quarts will drain for an oil change; the rest remains in the oil coolers. (As I noted before, this means that you're really only changing about half the oil on each oil change.
)
2) The filter issue is why the owner's manual recommends having your dealer change the filter; it intimates they have a special tool to make the filter removal/replacement procedure easier (or each dealer is required to have one mechanic with small hands. :D)
Page 8-11 of the owners manual states:
With the free maintenance program, this becomes even more of a no brainer... :p
1) The oil system takes more than 3.5 quarts, it's just that only 3.5 quarts will drain for an oil change; the rest remains in the oil coolers. (As I noted before, this means that you're really only changing about half the oil on each oil change.
)2) The filter issue is why the owner's manual recommends having your dealer change the filter; it intimates they have a special tool to make the filter removal/replacement procedure easier (or each dealer is required to have one mechanic with small hands. :D)
Page 8-11 of the owners manual states:
Changing oil filter
Because you need a special tool to retighten the filter, an Authorized Mazda Dealer should do the work.
Because you need a special tool to retighten the filter, an Authorized Mazda Dealer should do the work.
08-26-2003, 09:29 AM
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I don't have the manual with me, but isn't the scheduled changes at something like 5k mi.? To me, that's waiting too long. I know some of you will argue otherwise, but I like mine changed at 3k mi., just to be safe. I would be willing to change my oil in between scheduled changes (at the dealership) because now I'll be getting it done for free.
How much residual oil is left in the coolers and such after drain? Is it really about half the total capacity? That doesn't sound right in any way, shape, or form.
How much residual oil is left in the coolers and such after drain? Is it really about half the total capacity? That doesn't sound right in any way, shape, or form.
08-26-2003, 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by rxtreme
I don't have the manual with me, but isn't the scheduled changes at something like 5k mi.? To me, that's waiting too long. I know some of you will argue otherwise, but I like mine changed at 3k mi., just to be safe. I would be willing to change my oil in between scheduled changes (at the dealership) because now I'll be getting it done for free.
I don't have the manual with me, but isn't the scheduled changes at something like 5k mi.? To me, that's waiting too long. I know some of you will argue otherwise, but I like mine changed at 3k mi., just to be safe. I would be willing to change my oil in between scheduled changes (at the dealership) because now I'll be getting it done for free.
So, if you change your oil every 2000 miles, you will only get free scheduled maintenance for the first 20,000 miles; or about a year and a half for most of us.
Doesn't sound so good now, does it?
08-26-2003, 01:24 PM
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So, if you change your oil every 2000 miles, you will only get free scheduled maintenance for the first 20,000 miles; or about a year and a half for most of us.
Doesn't sound so good now, does it?
Doesn't sound so good now, does it?
1) I would have changed oil every 3k mi without the free service, so I can get 40% more miles (and savings) than I would have before.
2) With more frequent oil changes (2500 vs 3000 or even 5000mi) I am ensuring the longevity of the engine. Especially considering only half the used oil is actually changed.
08-26-2003, 01:52 PM
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To the original poster - of the countless 2nd gens I've worked on, built engines for, etc. I've ALWAYS put 4 quarts of oil in on an oil change. Checking the dipstick, it's just a little below full - perfect.
On the oil filter tightness, REAL easy explanation there.
Have you ever put an oil filter on an engine that wasn't in the car? You VERY likely will overtighten it. I've done it a number of times when prepping engines for install, even making sure to tighten it "just right" - next time it's a bitch to get the filter off.
Pushing the engine that far back in the engine bay required them to get creative with the oil filter placement. That's why they made a special tool to ease installation and removal. They could have done a remote oil filter, but that would have added plumbing, which means more points of failure and more cost for little benefit.
Also, the FIRST thing to do on an oil change is break the oil filter loose. If the filter is too tight, you still have a driveable car to go get a tool or something with. I always break it loose, then punch a hole in the top to help the filter drain.
Dale
On the oil filter tightness, REAL easy explanation there.
Have you ever put an oil filter on an engine that wasn't in the car? You VERY likely will overtighten it. I've done it a number of times when prepping engines for install, even making sure to tighten it "just right" - next time it's a bitch to get the filter off.
Pushing the engine that far back in the engine bay required them to get creative with the oil filter placement. That's why they made a special tool to ease installation and removal. They could have done a remote oil filter, but that would have added plumbing, which means more points of failure and more cost for little benefit.
Also, the FIRST thing to do on an oil change is break the oil filter loose. If the filter is too tight, you still have a driveable car to go get a tool or something with. I always break it loose, then punch a hole in the top to help the filter drain.
Dale
08-26-2003, 11:38 PM
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Re: First oil change.....what a mess!
Originally posted by 91vert
Anyway.....that oil change was the most complicated oil change I have ever done due to an overtightened filter that could not be reached, and my ignorance of not reading the manual to find out what the capacity was first. I just assumed that since it was a 13B rotary that the oil capacity would be about the same as my 7.
You do-it-yourselfer's be forewarned about this stuff before you try to tackle what we all know to usually be a 10 minute job. Took me about an hour when it was all said and done.
Anyway.....that oil change was the most complicated oil change I have ever done due to an overtightened filter that could not be reached, and my ignorance of not reading the manual to find out what the capacity was first. I just assumed that since it was a 13B rotary that the oil capacity would be about the same as my 7.
You do-it-yourselfer's be forewarned about this stuff before you try to tackle what we all know to usually be a 10 minute job. Took me about an hour when it was all said and done.
08-27-2003, 11:41 AM
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Re: Re: First oil change.....what a mess!
Originally posted by RX-GR8
the first oil change is best left to the dealer or a reputable dedicated oil change service if for no other reason but that oil filter is on tight. you deserve a cold one for you efforts.
the first oil change is best left to the dealer or a reputable dedicated oil change service if for no other reason but that oil filter is on tight. you deserve a cold one for you efforts.
An oil change service, no thank you. Those guys don't know a muffler from an A/C compressor. I've heard horror stories of people going in for a simple oil change and the tech forgets to tighten the drain plug, or event something so simple as adding oil.
Another reason for DIY is price. Take the brake pad service for example. My GF was quoted by the dealer ~ $350 to change the pads and rotate the tires on her Mazda Tribute. I bought the OEM pads for $60 and did the same job in about an hour. Difference being $290 and not having to waste my time at the dealer. The water pump on my friends 98 Cavailer went south and the dealer quoted him > $500 to replace it. I bought a new pump at napa for $21 and he helped me change it. Next time he needs a new pump, he'll know how to change it himself. He gained the experience and over $480 in about 1 1/2 hours. Don't be afraid of try to do something you've never done. Most if this type of work is just loosen and tighten nuts.
08-27-2003, 11:17 PM
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AMEN Superfan!!
Nobody touches my car unless it is absolutely something I cannot do myself.
If I had my own wheel balancing and alignment equipment, life would be good.
Every car I own (except the 8) has nicks and dings in all of the rims from the careless idiots at the tire shops I've been to.
I'm dreading the day that I have to take the 8 in for a wheel balancing. The idiots will probably remove the big "string" of wheel weights opposite of the tire pressure sensors and never be able to get the wheels balanced again.
Nobody touches my car unless it is absolutely something I cannot do myself.
If I had my own wheel balancing and alignment equipment, life would be good.
Every car I own (except the 8) has nicks and dings in all of the rims from the careless idiots at the tire shops I've been to.
I'm dreading the day that I have to take the 8 in for a wheel balancing. The idiots will probably remove the big "string" of wheel weights opposite of the tire pressure sensors and never be able to get the wheels balanced again.
08-30-2003, 03:20 PM
#15
Originally posted by rxtreme
Even at 2500 mi, the oil looked pretty dirty. I wonder why? Maybe it was my imagination.
Even at 2500 mi, the oil looked pretty dirty. I wonder why? Maybe it was my imagination.
Crankcase blowby doesn't contaminate the oil in a rotary the same way as in a piston engine because the pressure level remains relatively constant.
If you could get a close look next time, look closely at the colour and contaminent levels, and please keep us posted.
08-30-2003, 04:42 PM
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What would people's opinion be of changing the oil in between services WITHOUT swapping the filter... I mean, stuff trapped in the filter isn't likley to get out or block the filter, so having fresh oil without changing the filter is better than not having fresh oil... surely.
The filter will be changed at scheduled services anyway, and it should be more than capable of operating for 5-6000 miles without trouble... especially concidering that many "other" cars go twice that long between changes...
Comments?
The filter will be changed at scheduled services anyway, and it should be more than capable of operating for 5-6000 miles without trouble... especially concidering that many "other" cars go twice that long between changes...
Comments?
08-30-2003, 07:16 PM
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I was about to ask the same. For instance, say you change your oil every 2500 miles(you alternate between you and the dealer), would it be alright to use that same filter even if you change the oil? I looked at the oil filter today, no freaking way I'm going to be able to turn something that hard with such little space...
08-30-2003, 07:49 PM
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Since oil changes in a rotary (As I understand it) are typically more frequent due to the oil being contaminated with fuel, not combustion byproduct, carbon etc... then the filter should not be an issue... at least that's the way I see it... I'm sure somone else will be able to comment.
08-30-2003, 09:51 PM
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If you could get a close look next time, look closely at the colour and contaminent levels, and please keep us posted.
08-30-2003, 11:14 PM
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Changed mine today @2,500 mi. Thanks for your comments about
the tightness of the factory filter. I bought a filter cap at the local
Autozone to allow removeal of the filter with a ratchet. Sure glad I bought it as the filter felt like it had been installed with an impact. My oil also looked very dark for only having 2,500 miles.
BTW my oil level before oil change was at 1/4 down from full on the dipstick. Pretty low oil consumption.
the tightness of the factory filter. I bought a filter cap at the local
Autozone to allow removeal of the filter with a ratchet. Sure glad I bought it as the filter felt like it had been installed with an impact. My oil also looked very dark for only having 2,500 miles.
BTW my oil level before oil change was at 1/4 down from full on the dipstick. Pretty low oil consumption.
08-31-2003, 12:15 AM
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Wow - I thought you guys were kidding about the service tech potentially screwing up an oil change, but it almost happened to me!
Took the car in at just over 1000 miles for an oil change (ended up being free) and verified with salesguy who booked me in that they use Castrol GTX 5W-20. In the showroom noticed that the Tribute and Mazda6 both had their hoods up and both have oil-filler caps saying 5W-20 as well. Whilst waiting around I thought I might as well see the underneath of the car whilst it was having the oil drained (very pretty). Spoke to the service kid and asked if he had worked on an RX-8 before - apparently he has done an oil-change on two already. Then saw him pick up a 10W-30 container and go to my car. I stopped him and said the manual states 5W-20, as does the oil-cap. He said they always use 10W-30, and went and got his supervisor. The supervisor said that they always use 10W-30 due to the heat in Houston. I said I would prefer what the manual, the quick help booklet and the oil-cap states. So they hunted around and filled my RX-8 with about 4 quarts of 5W-20 (Mazda label on the containers - I assume that is rebadged Castrol as the service bay had Castrol banners everywhere). Spoke to the salesguy later and he was shocked - he said all new Mazda models require 5W-20 oil and he had no idea the service department was using anything else.
My question is: was the service person right in saying that 10W-30 is better in hot climates like Houston, or was I right in going with the manual's recommendations?
Took the car in at just over 1000 miles for an oil change (ended up being free) and verified with salesguy who booked me in that they use Castrol GTX 5W-20. In the showroom noticed that the Tribute and Mazda6 both had their hoods up and both have oil-filler caps saying 5W-20 as well. Whilst waiting around I thought I might as well see the underneath of the car whilst it was having the oil drained (very pretty). Spoke to the service kid and asked if he had worked on an RX-8 before - apparently he has done an oil-change on two already. Then saw him pick up a 10W-30 container and go to my car. I stopped him and said the manual states 5W-20, as does the oil-cap. He said they always use 10W-30, and went and got his supervisor. The supervisor said that they always use 10W-30 due to the heat in Houston. I said I would prefer what the manual, the quick help booklet and the oil-cap states. So they hunted around and filled my RX-8 with about 4 quarts of 5W-20 (Mazda label on the containers - I assume that is rebadged Castrol as the service bay had Castrol banners everywhere). Spoke to the salesguy later and he was shocked - he said all new Mazda models require 5W-20 oil and he had no idea the service department was using anything else.
My question is: was the service person right in saying that 10W-30 is better in hot climates like Houston, or was I right in going with the manual's recommendations?
08-31-2003, 12:56 AM
#22
Originally posted by pelucidor
My question is: was the service person right in saying that 10W-30 is better in hot climates like Houston, or was I right in going with the manual's recommendations?
My question is: was the service person right in saying that 10W-30 is better in hot climates like Houston, or was I right in going with the manual's recommendations?
There should also be recommended weights to use depending on the climate and what kind of driving u do, usually located in the owners manual.
For more info on oils for rotary engines GO HERE
09-02-2003, 09:30 PM
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Always go with the manual's recommendation, at least while in warranty. My wife's Sequoia requires a front and rear differential fluid change every 5000 miles. The dealer was adamant that this wasn't necessary. (I have to admire the fact that they weren't just trying to make a buck.) We got Toyota on the phone, who confirmed that if the recommended schedule and fluids weren't used, we would be SOL if we had a problem which normally wouldn't be covered by warranty. I would suggest doing what MazdaUSA recommends.
09-02-2003, 10:03 PM
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Oil change experts??
I had one of the "Oil Change Expert" franchises change the oil in my Eclipse a couple years ago. They drained the transmission and filled the oil. I left the store and the transmission starting slipping later that day. Brought it back the next day and they were very apologetic...very. I also got 4 new tires at cost and installed for free. I had it on record that they messed up just in case.