GaMEChld

Car info: 2004 model received in August 2003, Approx 55K Miles

So I was thinking of tackling an engine rebuild sometime in the future, possibly sometime in the summer. As a prelim to that, interior engine components aside, what other things should be replaced or upgraded considering I am running a turbo setup, while the engine is out of the car anyway?

Two things that occurred to me were that I could swap in an upgraded water pump, and probably replace the engine mounts too. Any other suggestions? I'm sure there's other important components.

What other things should be scrapped at that point in the car's life with FI on the table? OMP about ready to go? Any other Pumps, motors, or components that take a beating?

Clutch is taken care of. Tranny will be a whole other project that I don't consider part of this.

nuke0907

iTrader: (2)

Richard Sohn's OMP adapter, BHR radiator, Mazmart water pump

shazy

Get BHR Ignition Kit.

Save you some problems.

Ceramic apex seals...

GaMEChld

Apex seal upgrades I was already planning on, and I already have an ignition coil upgrade from stock. Should have mentioned those.

BHR Radiator though, now thats an option to consider for sure. Anyone know how much more effective it is?

Also, for the Sohn adapter, I will need to figure out if its compatible with my turbo kit, no idea what the fitment of that adapter is like. I am premixing anyway, OMP even injecting pure 2-stroke doesn't cut it.

More ideas! Bwahahaha!

Anyone know if the OMP and/or whatever handles the pumpng of the main oil supply warrant replacement?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

There is no point of going to Ceramic seals unless you're doing some serious racing. Not to mention they are not cheap, and when it comes to "Wrong tunning", its not as forgiving as OE seals. (I think Dr. I's seal going for over 1K a piece on MMS program, so expect them to cost A LOT MORE @ retail), not to mention, if it breaks ... thats gg

Stock seals aint bad, in fact most people are running stock seals even boosted.

BHR rad, I never had one, but a lot of people swears that its much better than stock rad, just remember upgraded radiator will NOT lower your coolant temp at all, its just that when you're overheating, it helps to get rid of the heat "faster". I have Mazmart rad and I liked it. I will try BHR/Griffin Rad one day. maybe this summer ? :P Also I should try MMS's rad (I think its the same as Mazmart rad, not 100% sure)

Yes get Mazmart's water pump.

the sohn adapter uses your stock OMP's line. it just "redirect" the omp line and feed it with 2 stroke premix instead of dirty motor oil.

U can consider upgrading all your oil cooler and its lines to stainless steel. they sell them in Japan.

Upgrade your oil pan with the Greddy one, it gives ya a bit more oil(u going turbo anyway, so u will need this)

change all coolant hose to Silicon hose.

get a better battery.

Thats about it for now.

GaMEChld

I'm not going turbo, I'm already turboed. The seals I were interested in were the ones Esmeril is working on, but I'll have to see how much they are selling for when they come out.

What's the benefit of silicon cooling hoses? They let out heat better?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

benefit of silicon hoses is that, they dont expand when heated.

cuz when heated, Regular rubber hoses will expand here and there, and thats not good, cuz eventually it will burst. not saying silicon hoses will last forever, but at least they should last a lot longer under heat.

I dunno what seals yyou talking about (Esmeril), but if u just talking about ceramics in general, they do sell it out there. but like I said, its cost a lot. and u better be sure your tunning is perfect before you go hard on it.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

just last longer.
secondary radiator does the trick when it comes to cooling and the oil temps will follow the coolant. no problems.
I understand a great vendor is working on a true 180 replacement thermostat.
get w/m kit and make sure your fuel pump is good.
take the pellet out.
OD

GaMEChld

What did you mean by a secondary radiator? Like running a second one after the first one? Seems like there could be space issues.

Turbo kit came with a new fuel pump.

Let's see, so probably engine mounts, cooling hoses, water pump. Maybe Sohn adapter, and maybe upgraded seals if the new ones are cost effective.

Will look into the radiator situtation more.

Again, does anyone know how long the OMP will realistically last?

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Do you have gauges yet? If not I would throw in some temp monitoring gauges before I went and worried about putting in a 4th radiator that you may or may not need.


Also, what makes you think you need an engine rebuild? Do you have low compression?

GaMEChld

My temps seem to be fine, so I can probably get by without the radiator, true. Still will probly get the water pump because those are supposed to be inspected and replaced if needed when doing this, or so i've read somewhere.

I do not have low compression (yet), just doing it as a precaution since the car is an old 04, and on top of that I worry about how I've treated the engine for the majority of its life (no premix till recently). As it stands, I am too concerned about engine failure to take my turbocharged monster for professional tuning to really tap the potential of this kit.

That's about half the reason. The other half the reason is, installing a turbo kit last summer was my first major foray into the world of automotive tinkering. It was a very enjoyable learning experience. This is the next big project in store for my car that I wish to tackle with my own two hands, even if it means the car is out of commission for weeks while I tip toe my way through it. I am confident I will succeed eventually, and following success in this project, I would be confident that no problem with my car would be out of my hands. (Except for body work XD )

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Well, it's my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth, that you have an unfounded fear of blowing up your engine. Take it and have a compression check done. If it comes back fine then save yourself some money. $.02


If you are set on doing it no matter what, thats fine, it's your equipment to do what you chose with. But I would recommend before worrying about a hosts of external variables I would build it as stock. All the stuff you are proposing is very easy to change out with the engine in the car. The less variance, the easier to troubleshoot when it doesn't fire up the first time. The only piece of equipment I would worry about buying, if i were in your shoes would be item #1 on this list: http://mazdatrix.com/videos.htm

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

if you live in a cool climate then you may not need additional cooling. it is advised to not run this engine at 225F or higher. Do secondary radiator search--its a simple set up and I dont ever go over 195F anymore --even on track or at the fast food drive through traffic jam on a 90+ degree day. you can do it for about $150.
The water meth system is to reduce intake charge temps and to help decrease carbon buidup--i would not fi this engine without one. again search--lots of info out there.
the ecentric shaft pellet needs to be removed --again search.
OD

Red Devil

What radiator do you have in the stock location?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

For the NE region I tend to not stress the BHR rad unless there is some serious tracking of the car, even with boosted apps.

Regarding the Sohn OMP Adapter; when it comes to some turbo kits (particularly the front-mount versions) one must be sure there is enough clearance between the OMP wiring harness and the exhaust manifold piping. Mac11 might remember what we all went through learning about this with tdiddy's PTP kit. Otherwise, I have had mine for a few years and it works fine.

GaMEChld

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, the first step I was planning on taking was getting a video about the rebuild. The one I was eyeing was the one Atkins Rotary offers. Do you know if they are the same video, or if one is better than the other?



Thanks for the feedback. You are correct, Water/Meth Injection is something I need to do as well. I'll need to read up on that, as well as the eccentric shaft pellet you mentioned. Thanks again.



As always CRH, your feedback is greatly appreciated. Honestly, from what I have seen with my kit, I do not see how a Sohn adapter could fit, and even if it could, it would be tight, and I would not be comfortable with it. Premix and periodic engine cleanings will have to be enough. Maybe all the more reason to Water/Meth, for carbon accumulation reduction.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

actually, I just looked up the atkins video. I completely forgot that was the one I have. It's pretty good. I don't know if the one I linked is the same.

I do know at one point I saw someone had a 4-dvd set out that was much longer and detailed. I forget who it was though. But it was accordingly more expensive.




Correct me if I'm wrong, you spent a lot more time with that end of the job than I did. But I thought that issue was taken care of when Tdiddy went back to the OEM motor mounts?

Last time I talked to him about it he told me he had the other mounts back on and was no using the Sohn, but I really thought with the OE mounts he had the sohn on with no probs?

GaMEChld

Hmm, a 4 disc dvd set sounds pretty delicious. I might try to find that. Wouldn't mind shelling out a bit more for a bulletproof walkthrough.

I've been poking around the Atkins Rotary website, and I gotta say, that place is pretty hardcore. I'll need to inquire about some of his products. Specifically, all his Apex Seal options. But one thing that caught my eye, was in the master rebuild kit, it mentions a "Atkins Designed Thermal Pellet Replacement," is that the eccentric shaft pellet that was previously mentioned?

mac11

iTrader: (1)

As I recall a lot of people around here considered doing the "thermal pellet removal". The thermal pellet is more or less a thermostat in the e-shaft for the oiling system. There are jets on the e-shaft that spray a thin mist of oil into the innards of the rotor for cooling. The pellet prevents this flow until the oil has reached a certain temperature, just like the thermostat in your cooling system prevents flow until the coolant is up to XYZ temperature.

If Atkins does a different spring that opens it a bit earlier I would consider that but I would NOT consider completely eliminating this on a street car.

To be clear this does not prevent flow to any lubricated parts. Only to parts where oil is used for cooling. I believe with the oil not being up to temperature, and the parts not being up to temperature bypassing this thermostat/pellet will cause excess accumulation of oil. Some will argue that is going to be good for said parts when they get to temperature. At this time I just disagree. I don't want to be spraying oil into the rotors from cold start. $.02

Hope that helps.

GaMEChld

Oh and by the way,

I would like to take a moment to thank everyone who has responded to this thread thus far. You have all provided constructive feedback and criticism that I have, and will continue to, give serious thought to. I also appreciate the restraint used in not filling this thread with useless "search noob!" posts.

I promise that this forum will only benefit from my adventure in this regard, because I hope to one day make a big contribution in the form of a detailed write up of this engine rebuild, which I will attempt to fashion into a learner friendly DIY with plenty of photos. Because, when you get right down to it... if I can do it, anyone can do it. You just need to be careful, be safe, and be prepared.

GaMEChld

Yeah, considering I did not yet know what the pellet accomplished, thats very informative. I just have to wonder whether the Atkins Designed one is more restrictive, less restrictive, or different for some entirely different reason. But I can hunt down that info at a later time.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

General note; I USED to encourage just about anybody to at least try rebuilding their own rotary engine but after re-thinking it, and taking into consideration a few things discussed over the past year with people FAR better at it than I, my position on the idea that the rotary is an "easy" rebuild is now different. As such, I still encourage people to consider it...... ONLY after they do a lot of homework, study the factory service manual, and KNOW what everything is under the hood, inside the engine, and otherwise.

The motor mount issue interfered with the fitment of the turbo kit, itself, as the mounts and turbo kit were from two different suppliers. IIRC, the mounts caused issues with the fitment of the intercooler piping, most notably on the driver's side of the IC.

BTW, Kyle, I still fondly recall our teamwork on the fuel pump install because it's alway fun working in a team that requires little conversation to know what each other are doing.

The exhaust pipe pathway interfered with the OMP wiring harness no matter what was attempted as they are both solidly attached to the engine.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

when i said remove the pellet i was assuming that everyone knew here that you shouldnt not run without one at all. it is a pellet mod for the very reasons mentioned. It is not about if the oem pellet will fail, it is a matter of when. if you dont do this keep an eye on your oil temps etc
OD

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

by the way Mac--good explanation--appreciate laying it out
OD

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I have done the pellet bypass, and it was with the suggestion of somebody we all respect around here. I did it when I rebuilt my engine a couple summers ago and I simply wait for the car to warm up a few minutes before I place a load on it. I am NOT saying I disagree with one point of view or another, simply that I have not observed any ill effects from doing so. From what I have been told and what I have read, the thermal pellet is for quicker warm-ups and, hence, emissions-control.

After thinking it over I decided I would rather adopt a different driving strategy thanto risk warped rotors from overheating.

On the other hand, I wonder if any engine damage has been recorded with the Renesis from pellet failure.