i'm pretty sure he means 134 kW == 180 whp. :dunno:

^kw and hp isn't that big of a difference.

actually it is.

i'm suggesting halex may have made a typo when he said '134hp@the wheel situation' since all other units of measure he's mentioned are metric.

From the "claimed 231hp" version.

:mad:

100Kw=134hp
208Kw=279hp

:)

oops, thought mistaken it with PS. I stand corrected

WOW!

You mean your stock car put 134 Wheel Hp?? That must have been a faulty unit. One of my fellow spanish forum members got 170 Wheel Hp, that resulted in 200 Flywheel hp when tranny losses were accounted for.

Besides, you mentioned the standar Euro Spec car is good for 200 Flywheel HP stock. There must be a heck of a tranny loss in your car for it to get just 134 Wheel Hp!!

Anyway, keep up the good work!!

....sorry, but i never told that that car had 134hp at the cranck before....but i told it had 134hp at the wheel.

This morning we're working on a 20000Km Hi Power RX8, full original.
On the dyno it shows 122hp at the wheel, for 173hp at the crank (SAE) which it means about 186PS at the crank (STD).

The best full original RX8 we had in the last 3 years (among about hundred rx8 hi-pow) had about 207hp SEA=223PS STD at the crank.

That's what I understood and what I wrote: 134 Wheel Hp.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you are doing things right. It's just that the cars you are testing are doing so far worse than any other one on this, or the spanish forum.

It all adds up to the Rx-8 claimed power myth...

....it sounds strange since i receive dyno test from about all over the Europe (Spain included, but also Belgiom, Greece, France....) and they all show the same problem.... power lower than claimed...often 20-30hp lower.
:?

ignore all the "crank "hp numbers he posts because they arent done on an engine dyno. they are "calculated" from a chassis dyno and are not accurate.

It's not the crank Hp what surprises me, but wheel hp.

122 and 134 whp seem to be way too low.

why too low? It's the usual % loss on a RWD.
If you test a 4wd it's always higher!!!

I know that.

Awd is far more complex than Rwd or Fwd, hence the bigger losses.

What I find too low is the Whp. I understand your dyno actually measures Whp, then takes the losses into account and gives you an estimated crank hp, not the other way around.

I'm just saying those wheel Hp numbers, which are direcltly measured by the dyno, seem to be far on the low side, compared to any dyno data I've seen on a Dynojet here or a Bosch FLA in Europe. If I remember correctly, even rx8s on mustang dynos score a little higher.

I can concur with our italian fellow here. In Greece the Hi Power rx8(Cosmo) shows at most 205 hp crank. Most are at the range of 180-195 crank hp. As for the low power it starts from 165 crank hp to 175 crank hp!!! Yeah 231 hp & 192 hp Mazda... Not to mention faulty fuel pumps on german imports and so on.
But if you check out those mags for rx8 in Japan, you will see that they also have lower numbers. It's a global phenomenon. As for the losses, in a rwd, the avg % is 19% not 15% as mentioned.
My mechanic asked ASTRA how they work 280 crank hp but I think he was told that they work only with their stuff. We wanted to test the ECU recalibration with our stuff but they were negative. I have the low powered MT european version, the 4port and with all NA mods and something like RB's flash (or better a similar one) the car averaged 200 crank hp but also 24 kg of torque. So we are trying to get better control of the ECU but there is no piggyback to hold values after a nominal spot(19% until now). Just waiting for the microtech now and we'll see...
Anyhow the result is I eat cosmos for breakfast but the target is the s2ks...

I understood drivetrain losses depended on...drivetrains, not average loss estimations. Therefore some cars may lose more than others.

Concerning the Hp issue, all I can say is US and Spain seem to get higher numbers consistently then.

I got 218 crank bone stock (It's posted here). Spanish mags have gotten 217 and 225 crank hp. The lowest anyone in the spanish forum got is 200 crank hp (170 to the wheels). I don't know if the guy pressed the DSC off button long enough to actually deactivate it on that run.

It's just that 122 and 134 to the wheels seemed awkwardly low. Everyone knows Mazda overstated their power claim, but those figures are law suit worth...

Ahhh!!!! You're damn right man! The numbers we see here are law suit worthy BUT I live in Greece and the consumer here is totally and utterly and with no saliva, F.U.B.A.R. !!!!

The best HiPow bone stock I know here, shows 208hp crank DIN. So go figure...

EDIT: Not to mention the compression readings... We are supposed to have a 10:1 compression ratio and the max showed here is 8,5:1. Average is 7-7,5 and many under 7!!! And to swap your engine here with new one, you have to have compression lower than 4!!!

WOW! I really feel sorry for you guys... It's a shame. I guess mazda must be really building up corporate image among you.

Those compression readings may very well be the reason you're getting such crappy numbers.

Cheers,

Miguel

I'm sure all the european RX8s are in the same condition.
About our 280 RX8...it was dynoed with 255/35-18 slick tyres and a self locking rear diff 43/9...so this is why you see % lost a little bit higher than stock RX8

We'll race at Athens in September with our RX8s...we can meet there.

Then, it's must be the Dyno used. 99% of RX8's in this forum dyno as stock in the 170-190 range.

@the crank sae?

I will rephrase:

Then, it's must be the Dyno used. 99% of RX8's in this forum dyno as stock in the 170-190 range at the wheels.

As Mubutu would say, just make a search.

Maybe the US version is different...? Could be, since on a us pcm unit we're not able at the moment to disable the keycode control, as we usually do on the Eu version.

It's not an EU thing, it must be the dyno used, as maikel said we've 2 spanish forum members that gave about 170 to the wheels on a Bosch dyno.