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the 4 port Automatic has a tranny dip stick sticking out to the front of the engine bay, I haven't check to see where goes to, but it seems that I should remove the tube before I try to pull the engine out. is it possible ?
I just spent half a day trying to mate the engine back to the 6 spd trans still in the car unsuccessfully. It has never taken me more that 15 minutes or so to mate a trans to an engine before (8 or 9 times previously on an RX8). We just can not get the angle/alignment between the two spot on. Leaving the lighter trans locked into the drivetrain and then trying to manhandle the 5x heavier engine into alignment with it rather than the other way around just doesn't make any sense to me. I will certainly never attempt do it this way again. On my car I pulled the engine/trans out together since I also needed to swap the S1 trans to the S2 6spd upgrade. It was way easier that way IMO.
So I had the trans jack under the trans, put a jack under the diff, and dropped the PPF out. This let me slide the trans back far enough to get the engine bolted up on the mounts and in the subframe. I was then finally able to get the trans mated and bolted up on the engine. So at least I didn't have to drain the trans oil or remove the CF driveshaft.
IT is VERY hard to pull the engine and trans together as a unit from the top. You have to have the car sky high in order to have enough room to swing the tail of the trans down, and you have to swing the trans down so far in order to get the engine to clear the stupid metal crossbar in the engine bay.
In your case I would recommend dropping the trans first, like you were doing a clutch, and then the engine will be CAKE to pull out. The trans weighs about 100lb and is not hard to drop at all even if you have no trans jack.
Question for anyone that can help.
I swapped out a 2004 RX8 motor with the help of this Engine removal how to pics but now I am having alignment issues with the bellhousing to block. I can get to about 1/4 to 3/16 gap with both alignment pins starting but as I tighten the bellhousing bolts to draw it together the motor feels like its in a bind and I cannot turn it by hand (the crank) anymore . My question is if there is something I missed or should I not be able to move the crank/flywheel at all ? Any input will be appreciated. I am lost at this time and dreading on pulling it out again.
It usually takes a couple of hands but I would back it out and when you get to mating them again slowly turn the driveshaft to get everything to line up as you slowly push the trans towards the engine and when it does it will push in and mate up. If it is an auto I can't help you, I have done 4-5 RX-8 manuals but never an auto.
Sounds to me like the torque converter is binding on the flex plate, maybe the torque converter is protruding too far toward the engine and not fully seated inside the trans. There should be maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch of play between the TC and flexplate with the engine and trans mated. Then you would pull the TC forward slightly and start your bolts for the TC/flexplate.
I just have it up on regular jackstands and it was very easy just by having the pickup point slightly forward rather than centered. I will never try to mate an engine to an installed trans again. If you can do it successfully then more power too you, but never again for me ....
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
IT is VERY hard to pull the engine and trans together as a unit from the top. You have to have the car sky high in order to have enough room to swing the tail of the trans down, and you have to swing the trans down so far in order to get the engine to clear the stupid metal crossbar in the engine bay.
In your case I would recommend dropping the trans first, like you were doing a clutch, and then the engine will be CAKE to pull out. The trans weighs about 100lb and is not hard to drop at all even if you have no trans jack.
So is the consensus that it's best/easier to re-install engine with the transmission out, then mate the transmission with the engine or to leave transmission in place and drop engine back in?
Having never done this it seems like it's gonna be a huge PITA either way.
It looks like mating the trans and engine together before install will be easiest. Any other advice you could offer with your method TeamRX8?
You must have to have the car up with the jack stands maxed out. I'm curious too how much clearance between the floor and the transmission doing it this way. If its reasonable I'm sold on doing it that way. I've had nightmares about getting the engine to mate with the transmission already installed and I'm months away from even trying.
No, see the floor jack under there? I just positioned it so that the PPF bolts on the trans tailhousing were mated into the jack lifting cut and this allowed me to lift the engine up without the trans digging into the floor and it mostly just rolled forward on it's own as I lifted the engine out and rolled the lift forward to clear the engine bay bar and hood. I did it all on my own and frankly easier than when I had a second person helping me remove the engine and then try to remate it with the trans in place on his car (WTBRotary). After wasting hours on the install trying that method I finally dropped the trans and then mated it back after the engine was in. Only to have to take the trans out again because the new pilot bearing and seal got damaged in the process. It was the ony time I ever had difficulty, and it was a huge difficulty at that.
Think about it. With the trans in place you have to instead get a several hundred pound engine to align perfectly with the trans input shaft so that it will slide in to the clutch disk center splined hub and pilot bearing ok instead of trying to get a 90 lb trans aligned and sliding into the mounted engine. And if its not perfectly aligned then the load of the engine misalignment weight is placed on the trans input shaft, which is not really ideal.
Again, I'm not knocking RR. If anything he's a better man than me if he gets that to work for him. It just doesn't work that well for me ...
Ultimately dropping the entire engine/trans/subframe out the bottom as Mazda intended is the best if you have a lift and equipment to handle it that way.
And yes my jack stands are always high when I have to work under a car. Maybe you like crawling in and out from under a car with your nose against the floorboard, but I don't. It makes a big difference on how hard ir easy it is on your body when you have to twist around looking for tools etc.
It's definitely easier to mate the engine and trans on the floor rather than in the car. In fact I used to do all the rx7 engine r/r jobs this way for years. And in those cars it is just as quick as leaving the trans in the car. I eventually moved to leaving the trans in the car on those models because I needed the extra space that the trans took up while the engine was out.
I still stand by my opinion that in this particular car it is easier to leave the trans in the car. You dont have to deal with dropping that HEAVY PPF, wedging the catback out of the way to get the driveshaft out, spilling gear oil from the trans, or disassembling the shifter/console stuff from inside the car.
Of course there are many methods depending on the situation and the person.
You must have to have the car up with the jack stands maxed out. I'm curious too how much clearance between the floor and the transmission doing it this way. If its reasonable I'm sold on doing it that way. I've had nightmares about getting the engine to mate with the transmission already installed and I'm months away from even trying.
Is there any special procedure for oil refill once you put the engine back in? (i.e. any special process for priming bleeding air out prior to startup?)
Pineapple Racing
Recommended Engine Break-in Procedure
1. Pre-lube the engine before starting. To pre-lube engine:
a. Leave oil line loop at front cover unattached with catch pan under it.
b. Repeatedly fill oil adapter outer cavity with oil and allow oil to gravity feed into loop line until oil is present at disconnected end of line. Attach the oil line at the front of the engine. All oil lines should be attached. Pour oil into center passage. Gravity will allow the oil to fill the engine’s internal passages. A quicker way to move oil into the engine’s interal passages is to apply low pressure air to filter adapter and push oil into loop line. Be sure to wear appropriate safety gear and use low pressure. The oil can blow out at you around the rubber tip of the air gun.
c. Prevent engine from starting, then crank engine until pressure gauge shows oil pressure or until oil indicator light on dash goes out.
d. Check for leaks.
e. The above addresses only the oiling system, refer to factory manual for additional first-start precautions that may be necessary. Once Started, check for leaks while allowing engine to come up to operating temperature. Check all gauges frequently.
-place a towel under/around the oil filter pedestal
-unplug the starter small connector on the solenoid
-ensure the car is in neutral
-ensure the key is off (to prevent powering the PCM, fuel and ignition systems)
-make a 6 foot jumper wire, really any single strand of wire will work. bonus points if you put a female flat terminal on the end to slide onto the same terminal you removed the wire from earlier
-touch the wire you just connected to the battery + terminal. this mechanically rotates the engine without allowing it to start.
-do this for about 10 seconds continuously. then stop and only go in 1-2 second bursts until you observe oil shoot out of the oil pedestal. Catch any spillage with the towel and then remove it and install the oil filter.
-repeat cranking for about 10 more seconds to fill the oil filter and the rest of the oil system. IF you are really good you will hear the engine speed up slightly during this cranking procedure and that is when you know that the system is fully primed.
-now your oil system is completely primed and you can replace the original starter wire and start the car normally.
This process is necessary because the oil pressure gauge in the rx8 does not indicate until the engine is running (which would obviously be too late). So you have to visually verify oil priming, but you also want to make as little mess as possible.
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 02-04-2016 at 10:25 PM.
-place a towel under/around the oil filter pedestal
-unplug the starter small connector on the solenoid
-ensure the car is in neutral
-ensure the key is off (to prevent powering the PCM, fuel and ignition systems)
-make a 6 foot jumper wire, really any single strand of wire will work. bonus points if you put a female flat terminal on the end to slide onto the same terminal you removed the wire from earlier
-touch the wire you just connected to the battery + terminal. this mechanically rotates the engine without allowing it to start.
-do this for about 10 seconds continuously. then stop and only go in 1-2 second bursts until you observe oil shoot out of the oil pedestal. Catch any spillage with the towel and then remove it and install the oil filter.
-repeat cranking for about 10 more seconds to fill the oil filter and the rest of the oil system. IF you are really good you will hear the engine speed up slightly during this cranking procedure and that is when you know that the system is fully primed.
-now your oil system is completely primed and you can replace the original starter wire and start the car normally.
This process is necessary because the oil pressure gauge in the rx8 does not indicate until the engine is running (which would obviously be too late). So you have to visually verify oil priming, but you also want to make as little mess as possible.
Car can't start without ESS connected
All you are doing is priming the oil pump line from the pump to the filter and making a mess??
The important part is the filter to the E shaft...bearings etc
I guess this will ensure you have a functioning oil pump...but the work to jump the starter and to clean things up seems much more convoluted than necessary. I don't think I have seen an oil pump fail bad enough it won't pump up like that....there is no pressure...
It will ensure you remembered to put on the oil pickup tube though 😊
All you are doing is priming the oil pump line from the pump to the filter and making a mess??
The important part is the filter to the E shaft...bearings etc
I guess this will ensure you have a functioning oil pump...but the work to jump the starter and to clean things up seems much more convoluted than necessary. I don't think I have seen an oil pump fail bad enough it won't pump up like that....there is no pressure...
It will ensure you remembered to put on the oil pickup tube though ��
You're thoroughly mistaken on all counts.
It is far easier to leave the KEY OFF (which disables the PCM/fuel injection/spark) than it is to reach down into the engine bay and unplug the ESS (and later plug it back up).
IT is very little trouble to make a starter jumper wire. You dont even have to jack up the car for that part...you can lay on the ground beside the front wheel and reach underneath with your right arm and easily reach the starter solenoid wire, pull it off, and push on your custom trigger wire. Then you just pull the wire around the front wheel, over the fender, and to the battery. That process takes about 15 seconds.
You leave the oil filter off the engine during install, and putting a towel back there might take another 15 seconds. IF you're very attentive, you won't even need the towel at all, as just a small spurt of oil will gurgle up and begin to fill the oil pedestal, but not enough to run over. IF you do run over the towel will catch any and you are not likely to spill a drop on the block. You are correct in that this phase of the process pushes oil from the pickup, through the pump, out the line to the oil cooler(s) and back into the oil filter pedestal only.
Your reading comprehension skills are lacking because you failed to read the part about installing the oil filter at that point and *continuing to crank the engine 10 more seconds*. This allows the oil to fill the oil filter and pedestal completely, then push and build pressure down through the engine oil passages, main bearings, eshaft, rotor bearings, and inside rotor cavities (aka "the engine"). At this point the engine is just as primed and lubricated as if it were driving down the road.
And yes, on occasion there are rx8s that have issues priming the pump at all. A couple of times I have done the priming procedure for 30+ seconds of cranking with no oil flow, and I had to push a car around and orient it nose-down so that oil would fill the oil pump and allow it to prime. Had I started the engine this way it would have run the bearings dry before the factory dash gauge showed a no-pressure situation to me.
I've done this a time or two before, I say the things I say due to experience, not just to blow hard or theorize on an internet forum. As always, you are welcome to take it or leave it for what it is.
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 02-05-2016 at 09:52 AM.
It is far easier to leave the KEY OFF (which disables the PCM/fuel injection/spark) than it is to reach down into the engine bay and unplug the ESS (and later plug it back up).
IT is very little trouble to make a starter jumper wire. You dont even have to jack up the car for that part...you can lay on the ground beside the front wheel and reach underneath with your right arm and easily reach the starter solenoid wire, pull it off, and push on your custom trigger wire. Then you just pull the wire around the front wheel, over the fender, and to the battery. That process takes about 15 seconds.
You leave the oil filter off the engine during install, and putting a towel back there might take another 15 seconds. IF you're very attentive, you won't even need the towel at all, as just a small spurt of oil will gurgle up and begin to fill the oil pedestal, but not enough to run over. IF you do run over the towel will catch any and you are not likely to spill a drop on the block. You are correct in that this phase of the process pushes oil from the pickup, through the pump, out the line to the oil cooler(s) and back into the oil filter pedestal only.
Your reading comprehension skills are lacking because you failed to read the part about installing the oil filter at that point and *continuing to crank the engine 10 more seconds*. This allows the oil to fill the oil filter and pedestal completely, then push and build pressure down through the engine oil passages, main bearings, eshaft, rotor bearings, and inside rotor cavities (aka "the engine"). At this point the engine is just as primed and lubricated as if it were driving down the road.
And yes, on occasion there are rx8s that have issues priming the pump at all. A couple of times I have done the priming procedure for 30+ seconds of cranking with no oil flow, and I had to push a car around and orient it nose-down so that oil would fill the oil pump and allow it to prime. Had I started the engine this way it would have run the bearings dry before the factory dash gauge showed a no-pressure situation to me.
I've done this a time or two before, I say the things I say due to experience, not just to blow hard or theorize on an internet forum. As always, you are welcome to take it or leave it for what it is.
As you said...maybe check your reading comprehension as well....
Personally we disagree.....I wouldn't tell anyone to jump the starter on a car...especially on the ground. There is so much more potential to screw something up and no benefit to just disconnecting the shaft sensor and turning the key.
Seems like the easiest solution is just to keep the eccentric shaft sensor disconnected rather than an inexperienced person fumbling around with grounding things out. Of course if you are experienced, then do what works for you.
03-29-2014, 07:50 PM
and it was very easy just by having the pickup point slightly forward rather than centered. I will never try to mate an engine to an installed trans again. If you can do it successfully then more power too you, but never again for me ....
