shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I didn't see a specific area where we could request DIY's so hopefully this is kosher.

Just from looking around the most difficult DIY we have on the forums is a clutch replacement.

I know a few people have rebuilt their engines/transmissions I'm just wondering if they took any pics. and could share any useful knowledge.

It seems pretty straight forward pull engine unbolt replace gaskets and apex seals springs etc. line it all up and bolt back down to spec.

However I know that it's more challenging than that and I'm sure there are some tricks on how to do all of that.

My extended warranty is about to expire but going back to stock is becoming a bit challenging and I need proof of all the maintenance I've done bla bla bla.

So I wanted to start sourcing parts now, and get the ball rolling.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/renesis-removal-rebuild-146186/

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/complete-engine-teardown-bare-shortblock-how-pictures-178945/

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/diy-rx-8-engine-removal-how-pics-178937/

lots of what your are looking for is in the above links..

beers

suay

search on my statistics. Not a do it your self. you can send you motor though!

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I don't know about the opinions of this so-called 'Legendary vendor' but the problem as I see it is this:

The BIGGEST reputation issue that the rotary engine has from the recent past is due to people attempting things outside of their area of expertize. The amount of people who have assumed that since there are so few internal parts that they should try to build their own has resulted in a lot of poorly assembled rotaries around. Add to that tons of wannabe tuners. No wonder people are installing LSX engines in FD chassis. I have people asking me how to install a water pump or thermostat: Again, if you have to ask, you have no business doing it.

Some people are super gifted and can tackle anything (And have the tools and time) but the vast majority have no idea how big the can of worms they're opening is. Right now in the RX7 community I'm always hearing of people who've started projects that they can't finish who need to sell their cars. One of my greatest fears is: The RX8 community becoming the RX7 community in terms of numbers of rude, immature, cheap, dishonest people (It's not the majority but it's too high). When there are talented shops offering rebuilds for $1000, I fear the quality community is in jeopardy. No video or group of pictures can properly guide someone who is inexperienced how to build a rotary engine.

Ahh, the pictures of owners assembling a motor on top of a garbage can and installing seals on some newspaper on the floor of dirty and dusty shed! Yikes (Unfortunately I've actually seen this numerous times).

I could make money illustrating the process (Or not, in the era of sharing) but I'm not going to encourage our (Quality RX8 community) own demise.

Paul.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

That's exactly what I was looking for thank you! I just like pictures its easier to see whats going on.

I agree with you completely. I have a friend who will be helping me with the project him and I combined equal one of you ray.

I cannot stress the bold enough.

HeavyMetal699

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I've put on some serious drug free muscle so I'll be saying anything I want to people faces .

I wish I could show the motor Rick has just built that's going on the dyno. This one is art.

Paul.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I think I have the cheapest prices on all the new stuff in the US by the way. Test me if you will.

Paul.

rotarygod

The people who want to DIY and engine build/rebuild need to get the phrase "budget rebuild" out of their heads. This has been thrown about the RX-7 community and quite literally means as close to free as possible while still reusing as many old parts that have yet to fail as possible. These are the people that will "build" an engine for $400 but then not mention that they have to redo it again in less than 10K and spend substantially more the second time around.

What makes things worse is the people who want to build their own engine yet they can't change a tire without a trip to the hospital. Then these people have the logic that since the engine is apart, they may as well learn how to port too. Don't even get me started about port jobs!

You've got to walk before you can run. Too many people that try it themselves haven't even started crawling yet.

I'm not speaking of everyone of course. Just too many of them.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

hey hey hey ! Im thinking to rebuild my own Rx7 engine !

Will I succeed ? I dunno.

Im not rude(mostly), immature(my mom said I act like a 5 yr old at times) cheap(I know I dont LOL) dishonest(I NEVER LIED! ) people lol

So can I do it ? I swear I know how to use a Wrench

Yeah I notice the "can't finish the project and need to sell the car" part too, its happening like crazy at the 7 forums, and most of the time I will see "this car sux rotary can suck a **** totally pos" after the "can't finish project"

This is how I got my FC, the previous owner is a mod at 7club, he obviously beat the **** out of every FC he owned (he said he got like 3-4 b4 this one) it needs a lot of repairs here and there, he just sell it out (to me), get some money back and look for the next FC to "beat up.

I spent like 4K on it already and thats NOT including major parts like engine and tranny.

my parents said I dumped tons of money into a hole. lol !

I like it tho ...

rofl. I can swap all 4 tires in 30 minutes without a trip to the hospital

Its going to be hard, but I have TONS of patience to learn stuff that I like

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

When I was a boy my idol and hero was a man named Jim Mederer who was co-owner of a little rotary performance company called Racing Beat. I only got to meet him 5 years ago. The RX7 community has very little respect for him even though he's been working on them since 1971 and holds many world records and other great accomplishments along with being a consultant and developer for Mazda to this day.
I met a man named Rick Engman back in 1990 who had 15 4 rotor motors on his white race shop floor worth $100,000 each who had built more than 800 stock and competiton motors and won several championships. I learnt from him how to properly build a motor when I was hired by him in 92. I've built 12 or so and it's a chore to do it. I used to be excited about it, now I'm just excited to see what he's building and he doesn't seem excited either. I'm done.
I dealt with a customer 3 weeks ago who bought all the parts to do a timing belt, cam and crank seals (Water pump etc) on his Miata. He was going to use a shop I recommended but changed his mind and decided to do it himself. After returning to me twice in a 4 day period with a damaged seal and seeking my opinion as to where his new water leak could be coming from he got upset (Not with me, maybe with the car) since he may have to take everything back apart and he was without transport. I politely reminded him what my initial suggestion was.

Paul.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

lol ! ....

I think I understand the miata owner's feelings.

My FC has a A/C problem, this A/C thing has been bothering me for almost 2 weeks. first it was compressor not working, took it out and flush oil thru it couple of times, clean the clutch, check all the wiring, took it almost all apart ... finally got it to work. then noticed the low side tube has a crack, found another used one online for 10 bux, replaced it with new o-rings. then the High side tube has a hole ... same thing, got a new dryer, all orings replaced ... then condenser ...

Grrr ...

bse50

I have to agree with you all this time. Rebuilding an engine is not too hard per se but you do need to know what you're doing and spend some money for the right tools.
Having a teacher surely helps and makes close to anybody capable of doing a simple rebuild. The problem is how long will this rebuild last?
I discussed this matter with Charles several times, at first thinking his exact opposite but the more i see the more i come closer to his (and your) opinion.
It is definitely something to try for somebody mechanically inclined and very patient, agreed that it must be an "experiment" to say the least.

Giorgio

rotarygod

As a bare minimum you will need all new seals (apex, corner, side), and springs, oil control rings, as well as all new rubber parts such as water o-rings, oil seals, etc... These along will cost you around $1000. I don't even recommend skimping on apex seals which is a very common thing to do. If you can't afford Ianetti ceramics, go with stock Mazda seals. Forget you've ever heard of any other names.

Now once you have all of these lined up, you can take the engine apart and inspect it for wear or damage. Measure everything! If you don't know how to or don't have the proper tools to do so, get them and learn! Buy a rotary rebuild video. It'll help. You may need to buy new rotor housings. I'd personally never replace just one so if a pair so if you need one, just buy 2. They are $631 EACH! Do your side plates show too much wear? Do they need to be resurfaced? End and intermediate housings are anywhere from $500 to $600 each. If they can be resurfaced then you may only be talking about less than $100. Is the eccentric shaft good? Usually is but you need to measure for wear. How are the bearings? What about the stationary gears? How are the rotors? Are the seal grooves showing signs of excessive wear?

Do you have a parts washer? You MUST get all of those parts completely clean BEFORE you even inspect them for damage and wear. This is often the most highly overlooked step. Please do not take your nice rotors down to the end of the driveway and set them on the bare concrete while you are hosing them down and scrubbing them clean with gojo hand cleaner and a toothbrush!

When you assemble the motor, how clean is your work area? It needs to be as clean as possible. Any good race engine shop looks like an operating room at a hospital. There's a good reason for that. You should do your best to get as closed to that as possible. (The clean part not the hospital!) Do you have any hylomar (or vasoline depending on your assembly method)?

You need to take the time to clearance everything. That means side seals, apex seals, and even bearings. Yes you can sand on them to true them! Seeing copper means nothing as your bearing is really your oil anyways. The "bearing" as we know it is just the place that the oil is allowed to act as the bearing. Since you need to clearance everthing, do you have feeler gauges? How about a torque wrench so you know how tight to put the tension bolts back in? Do you have the torque specs and clearance specs handy?

What other parts are you going to need to put it all back together? Do you need new gaskets anywhere? Vacuum lines? Do you remember where they and all of the electrical connectors you unplugged go?

Hopefully everyone gets the idea that in order to do a proper engine rebuild, it isn't cheap and it isn't quick. It's not difficult but there are lots of details to worry about. Keep in mind that there are many people that insist that you don't need to go to these lengths. They take an engine apart, not clean anything, replace some apex seals, port it haphazardly, and then use new water seals to put it all right back together having never measured or even cleaned anything. These engines may even start up and drive just fine. The big question is how long with they last since your engine life is really going to be determined by the most worn component you left inside your engine. It may even leak coolant or oil. Just topping if off is much easier than fixing it.

My personal opinion is that if you want to do it yourself, do your homework. Be very thorough. Take your time and do it properly. Also plan out a worst case scenario for how much money you may end up spending. It's almost never as cheap as you think it will be. Of course you could also just call Paul up and buy a Rick Engman rebuilt Renesis engine for around $2K or so. That's probably the same that you'd end up spending anyways but with the peace of mind that it's built properly!

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

^^^ VERY well said RG.
I think people become to obsessed when they hear things like "only 3 moving parts" and think to themselves, "how hard can this be?" those by the way, are usually one's famous last words...

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Shady: why are you rebuilding your engine?
Did you pop it?
Are you still running an e-manage?

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I havent poped it yet, soon though.

I have 1k left on my extended warranty I bought through private company. I know the engine is starting to go south the band-aid that premixing provided is wearing thin and god only knows whats next.

I scrapped the e-manage after I did my first pull at the bmw dyno day. that things POS

Rebuilding the engine isn't really the concern. it's more figuring out what else needs replacing/cleaning. So I figure if I start sourcing parts/tools soon, by the time the engine pops I should be well prepared to handle the situation.

I'm not an a-hole and think this will be done over a weekend things always happen and come up during teardowns.

RG that was an excellent write up, thank you it was just what I was looking for.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I also need to replace the front cross member and do the clutch. I have a decent oil leak in the front of the engine and my oil pan seal needs to be redone as well. Most of that can wait though I don't mind a little engine sweat.

My main concern is the apex/side seals at this point. due to the fact that i have no idea how much mileage this engine everything's really up in the air.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

If it were me (which it is not) I'd buy a blown engine to screw around with before rebuilding anything. Gives you a safety net to take something apart and put together without the worries of breaking something.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

strength is no match for the unbendable arm!!!!!!
I want to learn how to build this engine--recip knowledge helps some (bearings and such) but in getting the rotors balanced out better, proper seals, port mods is where i have the most to learn about. I know just enough to be dangerous.
OD

rotarygod

Start here:
http://www.mazdatrix.com/videos.htm

Watch these:
http://www.rebuildingrotaryengines.com/

Read this:
http://www.yawpower.com/goodmotorarticle.html

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I think Ray meant you would be starting a conversation that you would not easily back out of.

As Ray noted, we built my current motor on a dirty table in the garage ONLY using re-used and largely unqualified parts.
We (well, mostly Ray and less "we") pretty much eye-balled stuff and shrugged. I just kept smoking and drinking beer.
The ONLY new parts were the "O" rings and gaskets. Oh, and the main seals.
$250 in parts.

Now, before you think this was just carelessness, understand that we were intentionally looking to do it for zero dollars. The "O" rings are the only thing on the motor that is absolutely NOT reusable.
We used slightly deformed housings, overheated irons, mismatched rotors and e-shaft and *****-nilly side-seal choices. If it fit in the groove and sorta mic'ed right, it went in.

That said, it is the best running motor I've ever had in the car. YMMV

Flashwing

A day for which I shall never forget.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I've seen Cameron Worth (Correct spelling?) of Pettit Racing who has been building them since 71 gain knowledge from Rick regarding some issues he was having some years ago. I've even helped one or two of the most famous builders in the world with some renesis tricks I've learnt from Rick. I'm not beginning to suggest that Rick is the only good builder or that he doesn't have more to learn. He even makes mistakes occasionally. I guess what bugs me is that people think SO lightly of the process. The big point that 'some' are missing is the value of experience. It's like a lot of people want to get to stage 10 of which 7 stages are experience but they just want to press 'skip' over that like an 'easy' button.

I think I'm wasting my time. People's pre-conceptions and mindset are VERY TOUGH to influence. Some cannot be convinced that a seatbelt is good to use or a closed face helmet (Dale Earnhart). The potential effects of the current thinking is what dooms our novel engine to remain a quaint novelty.

Maybe, I'm like an old man whose perspective is tainted or achieved by experience but I've forgotten just how deep the yearning to 'Build it myself' was .

Paul.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

I know of a certain blonde girl who can bring this big man down to his knees.