dearly departed 13b..pics
Lubricious
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,425
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area, California
^^^^ you talking to me? my 8 was never in the "air" upon engine removal. the warranty adjuster wouldn't know where to look if I had a cat. they don't even know what a rotary is..... my uncles buddy told the adjuster that the engine failure was do to internal seal damage. the adjuster quickly told him that "we" don't cover "seals" under our policy. the warranty guy was then "schooled" on what an apex seal/side seals are compared to a piston motor.
he still based his decision on the rims,body kit, yada yada... what a complete idiot.
I really can't wait for my lawyer to serve him justice.
he still based his decision on the rims,body kit, yada yada... what a complete idiot.
I really can't wait for my lawyer to serve him justice.
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 94
Likes: 2
Ken
)he is probably busy so I guess Im just gonna answer it.
His shop owner got some family problem that needs to take care of, so wont be open probably till wednesday
so there you go
RotoRocks Powered
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 6
From: Delray Beach, FL
Yep, I sure do. I am yet to post all the inside info regarding "on budget" motor rebuilds, which I had shoosen to keep to myself for now.
But I will, after the theory about the exhaust/intake port position completely proves to be true, which seems to be so far. (Ray knows what I am talking about)
But I will, after the theory about the exhaust/intake port position completely proves to be true, which seems to be so far. (Ray knows what I am talking about)
Last edited by rotorocks; Mar 31, 2008 at 09:53 PM.
Registered
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Normally I would pin a medal on you for this statement of complete and total sense, however, this is sort of interesting. If his story is true, and I see no reason why it wouldn't be, he was sold the extended warranty with all of the junk already done to the car, which means to me that they warranted not a stock engine but a modified engine. The dealer had plenty of time to inspect the car, and theoretically the expertise to know that the car was modded when they warranted it. As the sales people empowered by the warranty company to bind the company and the customer's understanding being that the car was warranted as it was sold to him, I think that he should have an effective warranty. Moss/Magnussen wouldn't apply. However he also may be dead in the warranty because the engine has been subsequently opened up. That act could have voided the warranty. It could be worth a discussion with a local lawyer, as long as that conversation were free 
.
I'm sorry for your trouble. I hope that you have a positive resolution .
. I'm sorry for your trouble. I hope that you have a positive resolution
.
Thread Starter
bi polar rotor loner
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fl
the engine was opened up by a rotary guy at his shop. I didn't open it up myself, which I wanted to do, but didn't want to mess with the steps on my "case".
the engine is NOT modified at all internally. I don't see why I wouldn't go Moss/Magnussen with my situation......
the engine is NOT modified at all internally. I don't see why I wouldn't go Moss/Magnussen with my situation......
Registered
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
the engine was opened up by a rotary guy at his shop. I didn't open it up myself, which I wanted to do, but didn't want to mess with the steps on my "case".
the engine is NOT modified at all internally. I don't see why I wouldn't go Moss/Magnussen with my situation......
the engine is NOT modified at all internally. I don't see why I wouldn't go Moss/Magnussen with my situation......
The problem with opening the engine up is that warranties can be voided by the engine being opened by anyone other than an agent of the warranty company. Again, this is just a thought since I have never seen the contract. Best of luck. I really hope that it works out for you!
Thread Starter
bi polar rotor loner
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fl
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY
I think I'd be rather upset that the dealership sold you an extended warranty on a vehicle that evidently didn't qualify for one from that particular warranty company (for whatever reason).
If it turns out the warranty company will not cover it because the car has been modified from stock, then it should fall back on the dealership for falsifying informationt to the warranty company to make a $.
However, I don't see anyway you'd get the dealership to do anything other than reimburse you the cost of the useless extended warranty, since that's the only liability they're on the hook for. The car is out of warranty, so you're going to most likely have to bite the bullet, if the warranty company says it never initially qualified in the first place.
If it turns out the warranty company will not cover it because the car has been modified from stock, then it should fall back on the dealership for falsifying informationt to the warranty company to make a $.
However, I don't see anyway you'd get the dealership to do anything other than reimburse you the cost of the useless extended warranty, since that's the only liability they're on the hook for. The car is out of warranty, so you're going to most likely have to bite the bullet, if the warranty company says it never initially qualified in the first place.
Drove 47 miles 1 way to the shop, not hard to find, thx to my HDD navigation MAD state troopers trying to get ppl speeding , on my way back The trooper caught a Maxima ... Everybody was doing at least 75 that time so I guess its a GG for him ...
Pic is too big (over 3K x 2K resolution), so Im showing it @ 800x600, if u want the highest res u can pm me with ur email.
so here you go ...
It hurts just by looking at the Rotor ...
Deep Deep Scratch ... Guess what happened ?
Mini-Game, What is wrong with the picture above ?
Look at those marks ....
The port looks Pretty clean huh? but its still a dead housing.
Tell me this housing still works ! ... Not ....
Look at this
GG ...
Awww .....
That whole Rotor, Side housing, Center housing is all gone. Why ? Look at the mini-Game above.
MAD state troopers trying to get ppl speeding , on my way back The trooper caught a Maxima ... Everybody was doing at least 75 that time so I guess its a GG for him ...Pic is too big (over 3K x 2K resolution), so Im showing it @ 800x600, if u want the highest res u can pm me with ur email.
so here you go ...
It hurts just by looking at the Rotor ...
Deep Deep Scratch ... Guess what happened ?
Mini-Game, What is wrong with the picture above ?
Look at those marks ....
The port looks Pretty clean huh? but its still a dead housing.
Tell me this housing still works ! ... Not ....
Look at this
GG ...
Awww .....
That whole Rotor, Side housing, Center housing is all gone. Why ? Look at the mini-Game above.
Last edited by nycgps; Apr 2, 2008 at 12:51 PM.
Oh jsut wanna add that the ports looks pretty clean in person, not sure if it has been cleaned or the engine blew while OP was doing the *daily carbon maintenance*
Anyway, I say sue the insurance !
Anyway, I say sue the insurance !
You should try to get a Reman from Mazmart. Give Paul a ring. He will work it out with ya. (If the insurnace path does not work ...)
kevin@rotaryresurrection
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 61
From: east of Knoxville, TN
Guys, this is going to be standard damage for BLOWN renesis engines.
IN the past, older rotaries usually die by actually breaking the apex seals which are in the tips of the rotors. Mazda used to use a seal that was divided in half along it's length, and the top piece would wear thin over time. Eventually it would either roll out of the rotor tip and break on the way out, or it would break and then the pieces would roll out. Either way, the result was the same...this happened while running, and the pieces of seal would wedge between rotor and rotorhousing, also destroying the next 2 seals behind. This takes out the rotor and rotorhousing, and you lose all compression on that half of the engine.
That does not seem to be the standard mode of failure for renesis engines...yet. Most of them are not high mileage enough to have worn the apex seals enough to let them roll out, or break while still in the apex slot. Renesis' are said to "need an engine" because they are getting weak...low compression, poor sealing, but nothing actually broken. If you catch an engine while it is still running, just weak compression, it will usually be fully rebuildable with about a grand worth of replacement seals and springs. Kind of the equivalent of a "re-ring" or "refresh" with a piston engine build.
IF you wait until a seal breaks, then the damage can be extreme and the cost can double. That's what has happened here.
However with renesis engines, the cost will be higher to make the core buildable again. In the past, a blown apex seal rotary would require the standard seals and springs, PLUS a replacement used rotor and rotor housing to make the core whole again. With the renny, there is no peripheral exhaust port for the seal fragments to fly out of when they break. So they will continue to fly around and around until they find the only means of escape from the chamber possible...the intake or exhaust ports. But they will wedge between the rotor and iron/port when doing so, which is doing to damage BOTH irons adjacent to the dead rotor. So now, we have a total of: standard seals/springs, replacement rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent irons. Of the 10 major parts in the shortblock, 4 of them are automatic junk when this occurs.
If mazda priced their parts reasonably, then this might not be an issue. But since EACH PART is damn near $500, well you can see that the damage alone cost you 2 grand, in addition to the $1000-2000 for the seal package and rebuild labor itself.
So the lesson to be learned here is that if your renny is getting up in the miles, or losing compression slowly, it is FAR better to catch it before it lets go and rebuild/refresh it, than to wait until it blows and then worry about it, because you will cost yourself a grand or 2 in replacement parts.
Here are some pics of peri-exhaust 13b's that blow apex seals. This is standard damage. The rotors are softer than they look. This is still going to be standard damage for renesis engines, but in addition both adjacent iron faces are going to be chewed up as well.
IN the past, older rotaries usually die by actually breaking the apex seals which are in the tips of the rotors. Mazda used to use a seal that was divided in half along it's length, and the top piece would wear thin over time. Eventually it would either roll out of the rotor tip and break on the way out, or it would break and then the pieces would roll out. Either way, the result was the same...this happened while running, and the pieces of seal would wedge between rotor and rotorhousing, also destroying the next 2 seals behind. This takes out the rotor and rotorhousing, and you lose all compression on that half of the engine.
That does not seem to be the standard mode of failure for renesis engines...yet. Most of them are not high mileage enough to have worn the apex seals enough to let them roll out, or break while still in the apex slot. Renesis' are said to "need an engine" because they are getting weak...low compression, poor sealing, but nothing actually broken. If you catch an engine while it is still running, just weak compression, it will usually be fully rebuildable with about a grand worth of replacement seals and springs. Kind of the equivalent of a "re-ring" or "refresh" with a piston engine build.
IF you wait until a seal breaks, then the damage can be extreme and the cost can double. That's what has happened here.
However with renesis engines, the cost will be higher to make the core buildable again. In the past, a blown apex seal rotary would require the standard seals and springs, PLUS a replacement used rotor and rotor housing to make the core whole again. With the renny, there is no peripheral exhaust port for the seal fragments to fly out of when they break. So they will continue to fly around and around until they find the only means of escape from the chamber possible...the intake or exhaust ports. But they will wedge between the rotor and iron/port when doing so, which is doing to damage BOTH irons adjacent to the dead rotor. So now, we have a total of: standard seals/springs, replacement rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent irons. Of the 10 major parts in the shortblock, 4 of them are automatic junk when this occurs.
If mazda priced their parts reasonably, then this might not be an issue. But since EACH PART is damn near $500, well you can see that the damage alone cost you 2 grand, in addition to the $1000-2000 for the seal package and rebuild labor itself.
So the lesson to be learned here is that if your renny is getting up in the miles, or losing compression slowly, it is FAR better to catch it before it lets go and rebuild/refresh it, than to wait until it blows and then worry about it, because you will cost yourself a grand or 2 in replacement parts.
Here are some pics of peri-exhaust 13b's that blow apex seals. This is standard damage. The rotors are softer than they look. This is still going to be standard damage for renesis engines, but in addition both adjacent iron faces are going to be chewed up as well.
Thread Starter
bi polar rotor loner
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fl
Guys, this is going to be standard damage for BLOWN renesis engines.
IN the past, older rotaries usually die by actually breaking the apex seals which are in the tips of the rotors. Mazda used to use a seal that was divided in half along it's length, and the top piece would wear thin over time. Eventually it would either roll out of the rotor tip and break on the way out, or it would break and then the pieces would roll out. Either way, the result was the same...this happened while running, and the pieces of seal would wedge between rotor and rotorhousing, also destroying the next 2 seals behind. This takes out the rotor and rotorhousing, and you lose all compression on that half of the engine.
That does not seem to be the standard mode of failure for renesis engines...yet. Most of them are not high mileage enough to have worn the apex seals enough to let them roll out, or break while still in the apex slot. Renesis' are said to "need an engine" because they are getting weak...low compression, poor sealing, but nothing actually broken. If you catch an engine while it is still running, just weak compression, it will usually be fully rebuildable with about a grand worth of replacement seals and springs. Kind of the equivalent of a "re-ring" or "refresh" with a piston engine build.
IF you wait until a seal breaks, then the damage can be extreme and the cost can double. That's what has happened here.
However with renesis engines, the cost will be higher to make the core buildable again. In the past, a blown apex seal rotary would require the standard seals and springs, PLUS a replacement used rotor and rotor housing to make the core whole again. With the renny, there is no peripheral exhaust port for the seal fragments to fly out of when they break. So they will continue to fly around and around until they find the only means of escape from the chamber possible...the intake or exhaust ports. But they will wedge between the rotor and iron/port when doing so, which is doing to damage BOTH irons adjacent to the dead rotor. So now, we have a total of: standard seals/springs, replacement rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent irons. Of the 10 major parts in the shortblock, 4 of them are automatic junk when this occurs.
If mazda priced their parts reasonably, then this might not be an issue. But since EACH PART is damn near $500, well you can see that the damage alone cost you 2 grand, in addition to the $1000-2000 for the seal package and rebuild labor itself.
So the lesson to be learned here is that if your renny is getting up in the miles, or losing compression slowly, it is FAR better to catch it before it lets go and rebuild/refresh it, than to wait until it blows and then worry about it, because you will cost yourself a grand or 2 in replacement parts.
Here are some pics of peri-exhaust 13b's that blow apex seals. This is standard damage. The rotors are softer than they look. This is still going to be standard damage for renesis engines, but in addition both adjacent iron faces are going to be chewed up as well.
IN the past, older rotaries usually die by actually breaking the apex seals which are in the tips of the rotors. Mazda used to use a seal that was divided in half along it's length, and the top piece would wear thin over time. Eventually it would either roll out of the rotor tip and break on the way out, or it would break and then the pieces would roll out. Either way, the result was the same...this happened while running, and the pieces of seal would wedge between rotor and rotorhousing, also destroying the next 2 seals behind. This takes out the rotor and rotorhousing, and you lose all compression on that half of the engine.
That does not seem to be the standard mode of failure for renesis engines...yet. Most of them are not high mileage enough to have worn the apex seals enough to let them roll out, or break while still in the apex slot. Renesis' are said to "need an engine" because they are getting weak...low compression, poor sealing, but nothing actually broken. If you catch an engine while it is still running, just weak compression, it will usually be fully rebuildable with about a grand worth of replacement seals and springs. Kind of the equivalent of a "re-ring" or "refresh" with a piston engine build.
IF you wait until a seal breaks, then the damage can be extreme and the cost can double. That's what has happened here.
However with renesis engines, the cost will be higher to make the core buildable again. In the past, a blown apex seal rotary would require the standard seals and springs, PLUS a replacement used rotor and rotor housing to make the core whole again. With the renny, there is no peripheral exhaust port for the seal fragments to fly out of when they break. So they will continue to fly around and around until they find the only means of escape from the chamber possible...the intake or exhaust ports. But they will wedge between the rotor and iron/port when doing so, which is doing to damage BOTH irons adjacent to the dead rotor. So now, we have a total of: standard seals/springs, replacement rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent irons. Of the 10 major parts in the shortblock, 4 of them are automatic junk when this occurs.
If mazda priced their parts reasonably, then this might not be an issue. But since EACH PART is damn near $500, well you can see that the damage alone cost you 2 grand, in addition to the $1000-2000 for the seal package and rebuild labor itself.
So the lesson to be learned here is that if your renny is getting up in the miles, or losing compression slowly, it is FAR better to catch it before it lets go and rebuild/refresh it, than to wait until it blows and then worry about it, because you will cost yourself a grand or 2 in replacement parts.
Here are some pics of peri-exhaust 13b's that blow apex seals. This is standard damage. The rotors are softer than they look. This is still going to be standard damage for renesis engines, but in addition both adjacent iron faces are going to be chewed up as well.
wow, mr. landers broke it down like a real G.
sigh, I miss my t2....anyway, props to jackson (nycgps) on his skilled eyes. is that a word???
the engine is really clean as nycgps seen for himeself. as I stated before, I seafoamed it just before she went to rotary heaven.
It looks like I have no choice and bite the bullet. it seems my only options is take the dealership to small claims and sue for the warranty money. ($2000) hopefully the courts will work in my favor.
we will see....
in the meantime I will have to pay the shop $1100 for the diagnostics and removal/tear down. which I could of done my self, but I played by the warranty rules and got shafted anyway....
does anybody have a heart and donate $1 dollar to my paypal account. LMAO!
I crack myself up. I need a mazmart/rotaryresurrection reman/rebuild or parts.....
forgot that u seaform it, hmm thats why it was clean like that !
hmm so seaform works good then ... hmmm ....
PM Paul, he can hook ya something up (mention my name ! Im the unofficial poster boy for every shop on this forum lol)
hmm so seaform works good then ... hmmm ....
PM Paul, he can hook ya something up (mention my name ! Im the unofficial poster boy for every shop on this forum lol)
