California State Referee
03-18-2014, 12:50 PM
#51
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the catback does NOT need to be CARB certified, it does not affect emissions whatsoever. it does change exhaust noise levels though.
CARB stands for California Air Resources Board, ie it is a bureau dedicated to smog emissions and not sound laws. so technically there is no catback made that has any CARB certification.
if the ref is hassling you about a catback for a CARB certificate i would start to question the credibility of that station, their testing standards and take the car to another referee or call their supervisors. the catback only needs to meet the sound requirements and does not need any other certification.
you know it's getting retarded in the state when you have to argue about the emissions of parts that have no effect on emissions. what's next, testing vapors emitted from the interior plastics of the car?
CARB stands for California Air Resources Board, ie it is a bureau dedicated to smog emissions and not sound laws. so technically there is no catback made that has any CARB certification.
if the ref is hassling you about a catback for a CARB certificate i would start to question the credibility of that station, their testing standards and take the car to another referee or call their supervisors. the catback only needs to meet the sound requirements and does not need any other certification.
you know it's getting retarded in the state when you have to argue about the emissions of parts that have no effect on emissions. what's next, testing vapors emitted from the interior plastics of the car?
03-18-2014, 01:00 PM
#52
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Doesn't he have to worry about all the stuff on his car being California legal? Or will the emissions ref just check emissions and ignore everything else?
Ken
Ken
03-18-2014, 01:04 PM
#53
Rotary Evolution
the ref isn't solely part of CARB, they do all tests pertaining to emissions and safety standards of automobiles. testing the sound level of the car is part of a "modified exhaust" fix it ticket to verify it's adhesion to sound level laws.
people just get a little overly paranoid when it comes to the ref, but the safer answer is to just put all stock parts back on unless you have an accurate sound testing device to check your exhaust with which you know you will pass the sound test with.
i've run into cases where cars that weren't overly loud were still given the fix it ticket, it just depends how badly the officer wants to bust your ***** even if your car could be 100% legal by the letter of the law. often times they won't bother to give your car a sound test on the side of the road but just write you a ticket to have it tested if they think you have modified any emissions devices. this isn't exactly a bad thing though, it gives you time to rectify the situation if your car is in fact not legal and avoid any actual penalties besides time and effort. if your car does meet the guidelines and you keep getting hassled though, that is just a nuisance(which is why i just avoid big blingy exhausts anyways, in most cases they offer almost no performance gains anyways and are just attention ***** aids).
people just get a little overly paranoid when it comes to the ref, but the safer answer is to just put all stock parts back on unless you have an accurate sound testing device to check your exhaust with which you know you will pass the sound test with.
i've run into cases where cars that weren't overly loud were still given the fix it ticket, it just depends how badly the officer wants to bust your ***** even if your car could be 100% legal by the letter of the law. often times they won't bother to give your car a sound test on the side of the road but just write you a ticket to have it tested if they think you have modified any emissions devices. this isn't exactly a bad thing though, it gives you time to rectify the situation if your car is in fact not legal and avoid any actual penalties besides time and effort. if your car does meet the guidelines and you keep getting hassled though, that is just a nuisance(which is why i just avoid big blingy exhausts anyways, in most cases they offer almost no performance gains anyways and are just attention ***** aids).
Last edited by Karack; 03-18-2014 at 01:14 PM.
03-18-2014, 01:42 PM
#55
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the ref isn't solely part of CARB, they do all tests pertaining to emissions and safety standards of automobiles. testing the sound level of the car is part of a "modified exhaust" fix it ticket to verify it's adhesion to sound level laws.
people just get a little overly paranoid when it comes to the ref, but the safer answer is to just put all stock parts back on unless you have an accurate sound testing device to check your exhaust with which you know you will pass the sound test with.
i've run into cases where cars that weren't overly loud were still given the fix it ticket, it just depends how badly the officer wants to bust your ***** even if your car could be 100% legal by the letter of the law. often times they won't bother to give your car a sound test on the side of the road but just write you a ticket to have it tested if they think you have modified any emissions devices. this isn't exactly a bad thing though, it gives you time to rectify the situation if your car is in fact not legal and avoid any actual penalties besides time and effort. if your car does meet the guidelines and you keep getting hassled though, that is just a nuisance(which is why i just avoid big blingy exhausts anyways, in most cases they offer almost no performance gains anyways and are just attention ***** aids).
people just get a little overly paranoid when it comes to the ref, but the safer answer is to just put all stock parts back on unless you have an accurate sound testing device to check your exhaust with which you know you will pass the sound test with.
i've run into cases where cars that weren't overly loud were still given the fix it ticket, it just depends how badly the officer wants to bust your ***** even if your car could be 100% legal by the letter of the law. often times they won't bother to give your car a sound test on the side of the road but just write you a ticket to have it tested if they think you have modified any emissions devices. this isn't exactly a bad thing though, it gives you time to rectify the situation if your car is in fact not legal and avoid any actual penalties besides time and effort. if your car does meet the guidelines and you keep getting hassled though, that is just a nuisance(which is why i just avoid big blingy exhausts anyways, in most cases they offer almost no performance gains anyways and are just attention ***** aids).
03-18-2014, 01:47 PM
#56
Rotary Evolution
but a midpipe then renders the car again illegal, opening you up to these same 3 pages.
if the car was to be used on the track then a separate exhaust could be swapped out for that purpose temporarily but my comment was about a car that still retains a cat which deadens the raspy sound of the rotary exhaust.
whenever you use an aftermarket exhaust in california you are prone to looks from police and CHP, it's just something you have to live with in the state. if the benefits outweigh the headache then by all means. mostly i only recommended flashy large exhausts on turbo cars when i built them there, because they needed it to perform. all the non turbo customers i tried to sway them toward stockish tailpipes and modest sounding systems.
if the car was to be used on the track then a separate exhaust could be swapped out for that purpose temporarily but my comment was about a car that still retains a cat which deadens the raspy sound of the rotary exhaust.
whenever you use an aftermarket exhaust in california you are prone to looks from police and CHP, it's just something you have to live with in the state. if the benefits outweigh the headache then by all means. mostly i only recommended flashy large exhausts on turbo cars when i built them there, because they needed it to perform. all the non turbo customers i tried to sway them toward stockish tailpipes and modest sounding systems.
Last edited by Karack; 03-18-2014 at 01:51 PM.
03-18-2014, 02:05 PM
#57
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I'm sure ur speaking based on a different preference. In my particular situation I'm not so concerned about performance at the moment or what the cops think on the street. sure it's a hassle but I don't have a problem going through the trouble replacing everything again. I'm sure everyone on this forum has gone out of their way to mod their car illegally one way or another. I've been good for years. So you don't like flashy things. Point taken. The topic of discussion was what the ref and the chp officer thinks on the days of appointment. Like I said appreciate ur opinion.
03-18-2014, 02:48 PM
#58
Rotary Evolution
it was simply a statement that if it looks stock or close to it then you're less likely to have to go through all of this. not necessary to argue over it, it's just a fact of living in california and tweaking cars.
if anything i'm with you, it's just plain ignorant that a police officer will look twice at a car with aftermarket wheels and exhaust than a deafening harley passing by or an old school camaro leaving a black cloud of raw fuel trailing behind it. i did everything i could to make cars stealthy and less noticable, the fact is most issues arose out of either profiling or drivers doing things they shouldn't be.
i never got pulled over or cited for modified anything, even with the 4" fart cannon sticking out the back when i lived out there. lucky too because i think the big turbo and 0 emissions on my 7 might have caused some issues.
if anything i'm with you, it's just plain ignorant that a police officer will look twice at a car with aftermarket wheels and exhaust than a deafening harley passing by or an old school camaro leaving a black cloud of raw fuel trailing behind it. i did everything i could to make cars stealthy and less noticable, the fact is most issues arose out of either profiling or drivers doing things they shouldn't be.
i never got pulled over or cited for modified anything, even with the 4" fart cannon sticking out the back when i lived out there. lucky too because i think the big turbo and 0 emissions on my 7 might have caused some issues.
Last edited by Karack; 03-18-2014 at 02:53 PM.
03-18-2014, 03:13 PM
#59
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I'm glad u can relate. I intend on switching different systems out in the future anyway. On a sad note, I just recieved an email from them. What a very plain response. I don't think he understood my question, so I emailed back trying to get further info. No response yet
03-18-2014, 03:17 PM
#60
You gonna eat that?
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Fwiw, I have a BHR resonated midpipe & stock exhaust & it's not raspy at all.
03-18-2014, 03:33 PM
#61
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I stand corrected, BHR is just on a different level with their capabilities.
I'm trying to get the bhr pipe later does it really stay a deep solid tone through all rpm ranges? My ap pipe with catback is deep at first up to 4k then raspy then deep at 6k to 8k then loud raspy at 7k to 9k but not stock honda like raspy but formula 1 race car type raspy...haha maybe a bad comparison but I'm sure ap owners know what I mean...
I'm trying to get the bhr pipe later does it really stay a deep solid tone through all rpm ranges? My ap pipe with catback is deep at first up to 4k then raspy then deep at 6k to 8k then loud raspy at 7k to 9k but not stock honda like raspy but formula 1 race car type raspy...haha maybe a bad comparison but I'm sure ap owners know what I mean...
Last edited by Dirtyswiff; 03-18-2014 at 03:47 PM.
03-18-2014, 03:49 PM
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03-18-2014, 03:55 PM
#63
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Yea my parents recently moved to Texas. They rub in the gas prices all the time.. Was thinking about moving there but I work locally and it's real stable for me right now. Don't get me wrong, I love LA I love Cali but this place stresses me out sometimes with all it's rules. But to be honest every state has its pros and cons. Don't wanna start a debate about whats the most easy going place to live. My guess is canada. Everyone in the worlds trying to fight. While Canada's just chilling. Chief'n it not givin a ****. Lol
03-18-2014, 03:59 PM
#64
Rotary Evolution
it's just a matter of the left hand not talking to the right, half of the workers there probably don't even understand what is legal and what is not. the cat has to be OEM but there's no legal requirement for exhaust beyond the midpoint of the car that i know of.
if the whole exhaust had to be OEM then why are muffler shops still in business? they're obviously modifying cars and hence should be shut down.. even the requirement for the catalyst to be OEM was a forced hand at getting older cars off the road, because after 7 years there is no guarantee that you will ever meet those requirements since that is the limitation for a manufacturer to produce parts for a sold car since new.
because it's all burearatic bullshit and if you know that the sound level meets the requirements then you should be fine, otherwise i would press the obvious statements so they can clear their own air.
i 100% don't agree with the fact that out of the blue they required the cat to be OEM or automatically fail. cars have had their cats replaced for years which immediately became unsmoggable overnight. luckily most smog stations still let non OE cats pass randomly, because there isn't a giant red flag welded to a stock cat that sais "this is an OEM part".
if the whole exhaust had to be OEM then why are muffler shops still in business? they're obviously modifying cars and hence should be shut down.. even the requirement for the catalyst to be OEM was a forced hand at getting older cars off the road, because after 7 years there is no guarantee that you will ever meet those requirements since that is the limitation for a manufacturer to produce parts for a sold car since new.
because it's all burearatic bullshit and if you know that the sound level meets the requirements then you should be fine, otherwise i would press the obvious statements so they can clear their own air.
i 100% don't agree with the fact that out of the blue they required the cat to be OEM or automatically fail. cars have had their cats replaced for years which immediately became unsmoggable overnight. luckily most smog stations still let non OE cats pass randomly, because there isn't a giant red flag welded to a stock cat that sais "this is an OEM part".
Last edited by Karack; 03-18-2014 at 04:10 PM.
03-18-2014, 04:22 PM
#65
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it's just a matter of the left hand not talking to the right, half of the workers there probably don't even understand what is legal and what is not. the cat has to be OEM but there's no legal requirement for exhaust beyond the midpoint of the car that i know of.
if the whole exhaust had to be OEM then why are muffler shops still in business? they're obviously modifying cars and hence should be shut down.. even the requirement for the catalyst to be OEM was a forced hand at getting older cars off the road, because after 7 years there is no guarantee that you will ever meet those requirements since that is the limitation for a manufacturer to produce parts for a sold car since new.
because it's all burearatic bullshit and if you know that the sound level meets the requirements then you should be fine, otherwise i would press the obvious statements so they can clear their own air.
i 100% don't agree with the fact that out of the blue they required the cat to be OEM or automatically fail. cars have had their cats replaced for years which immediately became unsmoggable overnight. luckily most smog stations still let non OE cats pass randomly, because there isn't a giant red flag welded to a stock cat that sais "this is an OEM part".
if the whole exhaust had to be OEM then why are muffler shops still in business? they're obviously modifying cars and hence should be shut down.. even the requirement for the catalyst to be OEM was a forced hand at getting older cars off the road, because after 7 years there is no guarantee that you will ever meet those requirements since that is the limitation for a manufacturer to produce parts for a sold car since new.
because it's all burearatic bullshit and if you know that the sound level meets the requirements then you should be fine, otherwise i would press the obvious statements so they can clear their own air.
i 100% don't agree with the fact that out of the blue they required the cat to be OEM or automatically fail. cars have had their cats replaced for years which immediately became unsmoggable overnight. luckily most smog stations still let non OE cats pass randomly, because there isn't a giant red flag welded to a stock cat that sais "this is an OEM part".
03-18-2014, 04:36 PM
#66
You gonna eat that?
iTrader: (1)
I stand corrected, BHR is just on a different level with their capabilities.
I'm trying to get the bhr pipe later does it really stay a deep solid tone through all rpm ranges? My ap pipe with catback is deep at first up to 4k then raspy then deep at 6k to 8k then loud raspy at 7k to 9k but not stock honda like raspy but formula 1 race car type raspy...haha maybe a bad comparison but I'm sure ap owners know what I mean...
I'm trying to get the bhr pipe later does it really stay a deep solid tone through all rpm ranges? My ap pipe with catback is deep at first up to 4k then raspy then deep at 6k to 8k then loud raspy at 7k to 9k but not stock honda like raspy but formula 1 race car type raspy...haha maybe a bad comparison but I'm sure ap owners know what I mean...
It may be a tad louder than stock but not much, and it has a nice tone to it. I like it alot.
It has a spiral baffle running through it that gives it a bit of a hissing sound, but it's not bad.
03-18-2014, 04:36 PM
#67
Rotary Evolution
it's mainly because they found that cars were failing soon after going through the smog check, only passing temporarily. in that event they found the best solution was to phase out older cars, one such way was making sure they could never be 100% compliant again assuming the cats were no longer available.
i can only assume they deemed it mostly due to the cats failing, but cats fail due to misfires, carburetor tuning/fouling and secondary fuel trim devices not functioning properly on injected vehicles. even a brand new OEM cat cannot survive on a car that is not running properly and they already know that.
this is partly why they implemented the "sell your car to the state" program, which also failed miserably let alone burned yet another hole in the wallet of the state. they need to just stop worrying so much about the little things and worry a little more about not being in debt by half as much as the US as a whole in the next 10 years.
i can only assume they deemed it mostly due to the cats failing, but cats fail due to misfires, carburetor tuning/fouling and secondary fuel trim devices not functioning properly on injected vehicles. even a brand new OEM cat cannot survive on a car that is not running properly and they already know that.
this is partly why they implemented the "sell your car to the state" program, which also failed miserably let alone burned yet another hole in the wallet of the state. they need to just stop worrying so much about the little things and worry a little more about not being in debt by half as much as the US as a whole in the next 10 years.
Last edited by Karack; 03-18-2014 at 04:39 PM.
03-18-2014, 04:46 PM
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Ken
03-18-2014, 04:58 PM
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for decibels reading you have to be under 95 db. I'm not sure about the catback needing a carb number if you have the stock one you will be fine but if the catback says a name brand on it they will question it. I had a aftermarket intake and it was 50 state legal but it did not come with a CARB number on it. I had to call the company get a CARB number and do the test again only for the guy to tell me you cannot just have the CARB number it has to be afixed to the part in question. I ended up taping the number to the intake. Pain in the @ss that whole processs was.
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...evel_Cert.html for noise lvl
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...evel_Cert.html for noise lvl
Last edited by Alfcam; 03-18-2014 at 05:06 PM.
03-18-2014, 05:54 PM
#72
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for decibels reading you have to be under 95 db. I'm not sure about the catback needing a carb number if you have the stock one you will be fine but if the catback says a name brand on it they will question it. I had a aftermarket intake and it was 50 state legal but it did not come with a CARB number on it. I had to call the company get a CARB number and do the test again only for the guy to tell me you cannot just have the CARB number it has to be afixed to the part in question. I ended up taping the number to the intake. Pain in the @ss that whole processs was.
Vehicle Exhaust Noise Level Certification for noise lvl
Vehicle Exhaust Noise Level Certification for noise lvl
03-18-2014, 06:04 PM
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I wish I took a pic. I did not get tested on my RX8 instead it was on another car that I sold already it was a Toyota Celica. I was pissed the whole time because after I went through all the trouble getting that crap the ref tells me there is no guideline for the Celica so it was an automatic pass. He let me tape the number because I showed him the email I sent requesting the carb number, I even brought the envelope the carb number came in with Injen's letterhead on the envelope. I showed him that I tried using cement glue to attach the sticker (more like a metal plate) to the intake. You will probably pass with an aftermarket catback exhaust but if I were you I would try to find a stock exhaust from someone because if they say you cannot use the after market then you have to setup another appt and it just wastes your day and time.
03-18-2014, 10:07 PM
#74
There is nothing wrong with the Agency CAT back. It is a muffler. You do not have to have a stock muffler in California.
Your problem is no CAT.
My nephew in law owns a smog station.
Not only that There wouldn't be any Midas or muffler shops if you could only have a stock muffler in California.
Your problem is no CAT.
My nephew in law owns a smog station.
Not only that There wouldn't be any Midas or muffler shops if you could only have a stock muffler in California.
03-18-2014, 11:13 PM
#75
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There is nothing wrong with the Agency CAT back. It is a muffler. You do not have to have a stock muffler in California.
Your problem is no CAT.
My nephew in law owns a smog station.
Not only that There wouldn't be any Midas or muffler shops if you could only have a stock muffler in California.
Your problem is no CAT.
My nephew in law owns a smog station.
Not only that There wouldn't be any Midas or muffler shops if you could only have a stock muffler in California.
.
.