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BEWARE! "Genuine" Coilpacks from eBay.

Old 07-15-2013, 04:10 PM
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CO BEWARE! "Genuine" Coilpacks from eBay.

I installed "Genuine" Mazda coilpacks (i,e., coilpacks in boxes identical to those from Mazda) on 7/13/13. During my test drive around the block, the car misfired, causing fuel to reach my catalytic converter and make it heat up to an extremely high level of heat. The catalytic converter got so hot that it melted the passenger side carpeting next to the gear shift.

I had the car towed to Gateway Mazda in Aurora, CO (Awesome service), who have informed me the coilpack connectors came loose. The problem with these coilpacks is that they do not click in properly. Also, They noted that while my coilpacks were not marked with numbers, the ones Gateway Mazda installed had numbers. In short, it is their opinion that the coilpacks do not look like the real deal. Gateway installed new coilpacks, and the car is running well now. (i'm VERY happy about this because, a) i don't need a new engine, b) I likely do not need a new catalytic converter, and c) my RX8 is back on the road!)

I've let the eBay seller know my case, and his response was:
So these coils that were delivered on 7/11 caused all these issues in 4 days or whenever they were installed? I dont buy it but your welcome to return them for a refund or new coils.
I hope to at least get a refund on the coils, but am pretty disappointed in the seller's response. If things do not get resolved, I plan to let you all know the seller's ID. But for now, please be careful about buying any coilpacks from eBay from anyone outside of a reputable source (i'm kicking myself for not buying from Mazmart.com or Rosenthal Mazda)

Last edited by parkpy; 07-15-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:21 PM
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I trust the dealership about as much as I trust an Ebay seller. And I don't buy the dealers assessment either, it makes no sense. My guess is your cat was already bad.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:22 PM
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Generally, I agree, avoid buying maintenance items from ebay. However, several of our forum vendors do sell through ebay as well, so who you are buying from is really the question. Which has always been the question for anything from ebay. Mazmart does sell ignition sets on ebay, for example.

There are some flaws with your story though, which make me wonder how much is actually the seller's fault.

Some coils are simply DOA, regardless of where you get them from. Improper installation, a click or not, is hard to pin on the person you bought them from. If you do an oil change without re-inserting the drain plug and your engine seizes, is it the fault of the person you bought oil from? That's basically the comparison I see here.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RIWWP View Post
Generally, I agree, avoid buying maintenance items from ebay. However, several of our forum vendors do sell through ebay as well, so who you are buying from is really the question. Which has always been the question for anything from ebay. Mazmart does sell ignition sets on ebay, for example.

There are some flaws with your story though, which make me wonder how much is actually the seller's fault.

Some coils are simply DOA, regardless of where you get them from. Improper installation, a click or not, is hard to pin on the person you bought them from. If you do an oil change without re-inserting the drain plug and your engine seizes, is it the fault of the person you bought oil from? That's basically the comparison I see here.
I installed the "new-from-ebay" coilpacks originally. I will admit that I noticed the coilpacks did not click in. I drove the car around the block anyways. When i noticed the poor running condition, I did not pull it over right away. I drove it back to my house. This took no longer than 2 minutes (but it felt like much longer)

I called for a tow truck to drop my car off at a Mazda dealership. There are no reputable rotary shops that I know of in Colorado that know RX8s. Maybe RX7s, but NOT RX8s.

If Gateway of Mazda was trying to get the best of me, wouldn't you think they'd tell me my engine, cat, and ignition components were bad? I'm out of warranty by 25,000 miles. They could have made a lot of money from me. But they told me the truth. I don't think EVERY dealership is corrupt.

And you'll note that I did say that I wish I had bought from Mazmart or Rosenthal Mazda (Rowhom I've purchased parts from since buying my car new 10/07.

There's no reason for me to tell a story with holes. I did not name any specific vendor. I simply want to caution people about the pitfalls of buying parts that are priced.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
I trust the dealership about as much as I trust an Ebay seller. And I don't buy the dealers assessment either, it makes no sense. My guess is your cat was already bad.
It makes no sense? The coilpacks do not fit properly. the coilpacks look different than the parts the dealership sells.

If the dealership wanted to screw me, they'd tell me I need a new engine (i'm at 125K), new cat, and new plugs.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:42 PM
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Relax, we have seen plenty of dealers trying to screw owners. One dealer I knew tried to charge an owner $10,000 for a reman, and $6,000 to install it before "remembering" that there was a warranty. Other absurdities are common. One a week or two ago told an owner that his sway bar was low on fluid and leaking.

Yes, if the coils looked different, then you probably bought the wrong coils. Yes, most non-dealer sourced coils don't have external numbers stamped on them, however they otherwise look identical.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:49 PM
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When I was installing the BHR ignition coils on my car I had one of the plastic clips that holds the wires that link the coils to the ECU/etc break (almost 100% sure it was my fault for doing something improperly). I simply stuck it in as it was intended, but did not have the clip to secure it in place. I have not had any misfires, and I monitor my cat's temperature closely and have not seen it get dangerously high (it gets to the same temperatures it did before I ever touched the coils... of course you could argue that the car was already misfiring from bad coils, but as I was only at 25k miles on the B version of the coils that is unlikely - not impossible by any means, simply unlikely).

It is my understanding* from my conversation with Charles at BHR that the broken clip may or may not cause a problem, and that I am relatively safe so long as I keep a close eye on any misfires. I do plan to replace the broken clip later on down the line when I have the time and money. I also have a vague memory of him saying that another customer had the same issue and has been driving his car without incident for awhile now.
*N.B. I do NOT want to put any words in anyone's mouth, so please take everything I wrote after the bold words and * as my interruption/my words only. I want to stress that it is very possible that I misunderstood Charles or simply mixed things up in my head in the 4 or so months its been since I installed the coils and spoke with him on the phone. He was incredibly nice to me despite my blatant lack of mechanical skills or knowledge, so I do not want to slander his reputation simply because I misunderstood something.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:50 PM
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I would LOVE to see some pics of the Mazda boxes and of the coils as well. There are MANY revealing things to possibly be found there.

Best of luck. It sounds like you are on the right track .

Paul.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mazmart View Post
I would LOVE to see some pics of the Mazda boxes and of the coils as well. There are MANY revealing things to possibly be found there.

Best of luck. It sounds like you are on the right track .

Paul.
Will do

The boxes:

I will update pics with comparison of the eBay ones next to my factory original coilpacks

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:35 PM
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The marks don't mean much.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by parkpy View Post
It makes no sense? The coilpacks do not fit properly. the coilpacks look different than the parts the dealership sells.

If the dealership wanted to screw me, they'd tell me I need a new engine (i'm at 125K), new cat, and new plugs.
No it makes no sense, what do you mean they don't click? The connector on the coil itself or the spark plug wire?

The white marks or spots on the coils don't mean anything at all. The only way to know if a coil is faulty is to properly test it. My guess is improper installation.



Let's see pics of the new coils.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:16 PM
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Very interesting because we installed mine today in genuine Mazda boxes, no numbers, would not click in. So with a slight adjustment of the inner metal pins they were able to click in properly. By any chance did you buy them from this guy?? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-MAZD...item35c982bef9

I got mine from there too.

Last edited by Leesha; 07-15-2013 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
No it makes no sense, what do you mean they don't click? The connector on the coil itself or the spark plug wire?

The white marks or spots on the coils don't mean anything at all. The only way to know if a coil is faulty is to properly test it. My guess is improper installation.



Let's see pics of the new coils.
There is so much negativity in this thread. It's irritating. I come in here to caution people, to prevent them from buying bad coil packs. Then everyone asks me to prove it, as if I'm trolling. HOW WOULD I BENEFIT FROM LYING TO YOU ALL? I don't know. This is the most hostile car forum I've ever been a member of. I want to help, and I get the feeling that there are more naysayers than helpful members. Is this how ALL of RX8Club.com is? If anyone wants to, call me. I'll explain it to you. PM me for my number.

In the following photos, eBay coils are on the left, Mazda is on the right.

here is my the top of the coil pack connector. notice the different angled part where the harness tab clicks on to the coil pack


Here is the underside of the coilpack. Notice numbers in the corners around the mounting hole. There are no numbers around the mounting hole on the eBay version.



Next, look at the openings of the coil pack connector, as well as the different sizes of the connecting pins.



my burned carpet:


my compression test:


my service order:


I hope this information and the photographs are sufficient to my cause (which is likely one of the reasons why RX8Club.com exists...to help RX8 owners)

Thank you all for the inquisition. I honestly I hope I DO help others from avoiding my $600 day.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:42 PM
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park, we aren't being hostile, we don't think you are lying. We just don't want the wrong message being sent.

Yes, you have a problem with the coils you got. Regardless of the reason for the misinstallation, it is pretty much a fact that the cat failure was due to improperly installed coils. Yes, your cat will fry REALLY fast if you are driving without 1 or more coils firing at all.


Your warning to know what you are buying is certainly a good message, and we don't disagree with you on that. We just want to make sure that the additional message of "make sure the coils and wires are plugged in!" is also heard. The coils may be inferior coils, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have caused this if you had taken time to ensure that they were firing correctly before heading out for a drive.

Again, not being hostile, just trying to make sure that the correct message is being sent.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:44 PM
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Yeap lots of haters. However I had the exact same problem & my coils looked exa ctly like yours. It seems the click in part is a little larger on the originals. We had to triple check mine. But I also had the exact same probs today.

Originally Posted by parkpy View Post
There is so much negativity in this thread. It's irritating. I come in here to caution people, to prevent them from buying bad coil packs. Then everyone asks me to prove it, as if I'm trolling. HOW WOULD I BENEFIT FROM LYING TO YOU ALL? I don't know. This is the most hostile car forum I've ever been a member of. I want to help, and I get the feeling that there are more naysayers than helpful members. Is this how ALL of RX8Club.com is? If anyone wants to, call me. I'll explain it to you. PM me for my number.

In the following photos, eBay coils are on the left, Mazda is on the right.

here is my the top of the coil pack connector. notice the different angled part where the harness tab clicks on to the coil pack

Here is the underside of the coilpack. Notice numbers in the corners around the mounting hole. There are no numbers around the mounting hole on the eBay version.


Next, look at the openings of the coil pack connector, as well as the different sizes of the connecting pins.


my burned carpet:

my compression test:

my service order:

I hope this information and the photographs are sufficient to my cause (which is likely one of the reasons why RX8Club.com exists...to help RX8 owners)

Thank you all for the inquisition. I honestly I hope I DO help others from avoiding my $600 day.

Last edited by RIWWP; 07-15-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:48 PM
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Not hating Leesha.

Those burn marks usually show up on the coils long before they can be considered as failed, and it's also possible for coils to fail without the burn marks being present. It's why we, and Mazda, says that the burn marks don't mean anything.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RIWWP View Post
park, we aren't being hostile, we don't think you are lying. We just don't want the wrong message being sent.

Yes, you have a problem with the coils you got. Regardless of the reason for the misinstallation, it is pretty much a fact that the cat failure was due to improperly installed coils. Yes, your cat will fry REALLY fast if you are driving without 1 or more coils firing at all.


Your warning to know what you are buying is certainly a good message, and we don't disagree with you on that. We just want to make sure that the additional message of "make sure the coils and wires are plugged in!" is also heard. The coils may be inferior coils, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have caused this if you had taken time to ensure that they were firing correctly before heading out for a drive.

Again, not being hostile, just trying to make sure that the correct message is being sent.
put yourself in my shoes, read the responses to my posts. They call for evidence. They put me at fault. I did not drive the car far at all. The car fired up, it went through the rev range, then sputtered, and lost power only a few blocks from my house. I always drive my car around the neighborhood after an install. I pushed in the connectors, I triple checked the spark plugs, I smushed down the coil pack connectors are far as they went.

I believe my only fault is buying the eBay coils that were advertised as GENUINE, put in MAZDA BOXES, and are clearly different than the coils that originally came on my Mazda.

I want to help others, without the noise that puts ME at fault beyond wanting to save a few bucks.

And if you read the service ticket, you will see that the mechanic notes the eBay coils do NOT click in properly. But the posts following my original posts point to ME being the reason why the cat overheated. Read a few posts above this and see that someone noted they broke their tabs, and Charles at BHR doesn't think this is something to be too concerned about.

This thread just feels like one of those situations where I'm fighting condescension. Who likes that?
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:00 PM
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My apologies if you are feeling that way. I don't read my posts or 9k's in the tone that you are apparently.

Note that if I went through your exact scenario, I'd be blaming myself for a large part of it. In fact I did, only with an engine. When my Miata's engine blew, I cheaped out and bought an engine from an unknown mileage car. It turned out to have failing piston rings and I didn't discover this until after I had it running and found it was burning a quart of oil every 300 miles. Sure, it was partially the seller's fault for selling me a bad engine, but I can't exactly avoid all the responsibility for it.

Am I blaming you and heaping everything on your head? Not at all. Those coils do indeed look suspect. I haven't heard of knock off coils on the market yet, but it's possible that this is the first occurrence of them.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:02 PM
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well all of that under the bridge,

how about that nice carpet?

I have a feeling the ebayer won't be refunding me anything. not even for the coil packs.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:03 PM
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I helped Leesha with the installation of her coil-packs, they definitely did not click. The pins had to be adjusted upward by about 1~2mm so they pins would contact, otherwise they would not be receiving any power to run the spark plugs. I made sure to check this multiple times to ensure they would "click" into place, which I did achieve.
I sat in for a test drive with no issues and car performance was optimal.
When dealing with electrical, please make sure those clips "click" into place, otherwise you will be doomed. it's unfortunate to see the damage it caused, I hope repairs weren't too much.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RIWWP View Post
Not hating Leesha.

Those burn marks usually show up on the coils long before they can be considered as failed, and it's also possible for coils to fail without the burn marks being present. It's why we, and Mazda, says that the burn marks don't mean anything.
Not calling you a haterhey I asked those guys if they could tape it up. Lol hey what do I know. Thx god they didn't listen to me!
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:05 PM
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Do the coils themselves have the Mazda part number on their sides?

Paul.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mazmart View Post
Do the coils themselves have the Mazda part number on their sides?

Paul.
Looks like they're pretty much the same:
N3H1 18 100B
AIC 1355 0225



N3H1-18-100B-9U
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:16 PM
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That 'B' should mean B revision coils. There are 4 versions of them, and I could see it possible that there are slight connection differences between them. Shouldn't be, but things do change for a variety of reasons that could have nothing to do with anything we care about (supplier changes, manufacturing tool changes, etc...)
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:20 PM
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Interesting difference. That seems like something a knockoff warning example would indicate. Again, we haven't really seen them yet, but perhaps this is evidence that they do exist.
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