Benjamz

So we got a dead engine in the shop.

The car was sitting in a container for about 3 months after it came back from a drift demo. The car would not start, it also runs on C16. That car ran fine prior to being shipped back from Dominica Republic.

It appears that the moisture in the air and the fact it was on a boat for a month out at sea, sea water moisture in the air had made its way up through the exhaust and into the combustion chambers causing corrosion and locking the apex seals in place.

After changing out the spark plugs and de-flooding the engine from attempted starts we pulled the car with a tow strap to try to start it in gear. No luck and a completely dead sounding motor.

The motor had damn near zero compresion on 4 of the 6 chambers and it appeared to have a busted apexi seal when tested. I had called on some old school rotary tech and was advised to pull the plugs, fuel relay and put ATF in through the spark plug ports. We cranked it and let it sit over night. The next day we cranked it and got 4 solid pulses with two low meaning either 1 apex seal is either still locked or cracked.

We let the car sit for a few more days allowing the ATF fluid to have a chance to break down the suspected locked apex seal.

Today we towed the car again while in gear, popped the clutch a few times and it sputtered. The car began to show some life. We finally got the car statred by pulling it in gear for about a mile allowing the ATF to get blown out and once the car started we had enormous amounts of smoke (all from the ATF fluid)

The driver did some test pulls and the car cleared up with each one and eventually held a good idle. Also the car starts right up with ease on its own now.

So the moral of the story is if you had a motor sitting around for a while or for some other reason you lost compression (other then a confirmed blown apex seal) try to clean your motor with some ATF fluid. I know there is seafoam for the RX8 and that this was done on an FD. But I wanted to let you guys know of this expierence because it saved a motor.

Ben

rotarykillz

iTrader: (1)

I've used this trick in a couple rx7s in the past...works really well....LOTS OF WHITE SMOKE :D But yes, ATF will basically recondition those seals and get some compression going again.

Alexb

iTrader: (1)

forgive my ignorance... but what does ATF stand for?

SARRAS

A utomatic T ransmission F luid

MAZMART "6"

Very old trick that works really good.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

the smoke kills every bug within 200 yards!
OD

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

I am having a hard time following what the ATF actually does... does it unstick a seal? clean corrosion off of the housing? kinda curious how this works

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to guess it's like brake fluid - pretty much removes anything off the metal

arghx7

This is a trick of last resort (and the OP's situation is last resort). ATF is not good for soft seals.

deadphoenix52

i did this on my 7.

CyberPitz

Pretty much this. If your car is having troubles starting, don't just reach for the ATF right away. Last resort is for sure.

Benjamz

I think this trick is so old, its like tribal knowledge...lol

The car starts right up. Like nothing ever happened. But yes, it was a last resort. The car is schedualed to be in a video at Thunder Hill on Jan 24, 2010. Well see then when he goes all out drfiting slideways just how well this trick saved his engine. I'll post the video once its done and I get the link. I wish you could have been there during the checks and trouble shooting. We thought 100% for sure there was at least one bad apex seal. Even should bad on the engine compression tester....lol

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

A bottle of Seafoam or some other petroleum-based solvent will work even better and faster.

Just fill the combustion chambers as best as you can and let it sit.

Rote8

If it's worse than my WD-40 experience, it's more than 200 yards, unless the yards belong to 200 neighbors.

Benjamz

I mentioned seafoam but the old school tech said for this situation ATF was better because of the corrosion and the fact that when the engine was initially checked it had rusted water coming out of the spark plug ports when the engine was cranked. Seafoam would have dried things out. Also I thought in the procedure you have to hook a line up to the nipple so that when you crank the engine it gets a little oil back into the chamber. This cars main issue was not carbon locked, it was corrosion and seawater moisture in the air that got into the engine. This is why in this situation the ATF was chosen to try and reduce the risk of scaring from what ever was inside, also because we wanted to prevent any stripping of lubrication.

I think the siuation that caused the problem should determin what method to use in attemting to restore the engines health.

mike[piston eater]

iTrader: (3)

thats funny my auto teacher taught me this trick this semester

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I would have done a mixture of Seafoam and 2-cycle oil and completely flooded the motor with it.
Just pour it with down the intake. No nipple or anything like that.
I might have added a bit of methanol, too.

Benjamz

LOL, nice cocktail.

That mixture being a 60 year old man, the engine being an 18 year old bar girl in a foreign country. Something is deffinitly going to get man handled, bent over and tossed around with vengeance.

BDC

Ben, ATF is terrific. It's an old-school rotary trick. I use it from time to time when a car has sat for awhile and hasn't been run. Funny enough, it's a great "tool" for providing a short-term burst of compression. I tell rotary guys to keep a quart of it handy.

B

Benjamz

BDC, Thanks. The drift driver said the car felt good after we did all this. Well see on Jan 24 just well it really worked. He has a ported motor with an Apexi RX6 turbo or some bigger apexi turbo, C16 gas and makes 415whp on a conservative tune. The turbo is from the Apexi drift car in Japan, the famous one.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

yep atf will even get a car cranked even if it does have 1 broke seal and low compression on the others.
heck if it burnt off better it woul be a good premix.
Doesnt do well as a suntan lotion.
OD

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

We took an R100 out of a barn in Washington, or should I say chicken coup. It had been there for a little over 5 years. Had basically no compression. But it did run when it was parked.
Changed fluids, plugs, blah, blah and installed ATF down the carb. Let it sit for a couple days, rotating the engine every once and a while. Fired right up.
So yes it acts like a solvent/rust remover/decarbonizer. Car ran for a couple of years after that.

White_Shadows

I think moral of the story is put condoms over your exhaust when shipping over seas.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

well---hang on--i am building a cold air box out of a trashcan!!
OD

Benjamz

well, what if you had no condoms left. not that i would ever stray from my wife but a american going to another country..... i would think that condoms would be the first shortage of supplies...lol