the4v3ry

Hi all, I poked around but couldn't find any advice on this, so please share your experience.

I bought a used 2004 RX-8 MT that has had all the recalls done, but I'm not sure which TSBs were done. I asked them if I could just have them do all the TSBs and they said "no, we only do a TSB if there's a problem". My warranty is up in 9 months and I want to make sure I don't get screwed, so what do I do?

What TSB's are most important to get? How do you get your dealer to do them?

For instance, I have to have the car towed in on a dead battery or perhaps a wierdo flood (should be free through roadside assist), and I think now's the time to get an upgrade to the starter.

To do tomorrow?
IGNITION COIL INSPECTION
BATTERY REPLACEMENT
The dealer already said he normally puts in a better starter too, but that's not on the TSB list I don't think

Already done by previous owner
WATER IN REAR COMBINATION LIGHT

Old Rotor

Mazda will print out all your history if you ask them too(dealer or Mazda America). I looked at the "TSB's" and then looked at my car to see if they were done. I looked and saw the new P# on the starter that is listed in the "TSB"(battery and new spark plugs too). Get a print out they are all important...and bring in a printout of it when you bring it in.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The key is to use the proper language/wording in discussing your "concern" as they are called in the industry. Loss of power, hard starting, and CELs are pretty good starts. However, the first step for the tech is to "verify the concern".

the4v3ry

Good tips guys! Sadly, I'm the kid who never took auto shop. What is a CEL? Is hard starting just when it takes a while of cranking to get started? What are the most important problems to get checked out before the warranty is up? (thank god the previous owner got the taillights fixed because I may not have noticed in time)

User24

iTrader: (1)

Just verify to make sure they performed MSP16 today along with your other repairs.

Docj78

I too just bought an 05 with warranty that expires in about 11 months. I had the car at the dealer today for the msp-16, and asked the service writer about a few various issues--in particular the battery/starter/plugs TSB.

He told me that "The shinkas have not been a problem with that and it has not been needed b/c they have upgraded parts to begin with blah blah"

Anyway, is it appropriate to get copies of the TSB's, take them to the dealer and request(politely demand) that the TSB's are performed???

I don't want to wait until a problem occurs and I'm out of warranty for something that should have been done per Mazda's own advice.

Triperformance

If they wont do it with you in front of them the just be like " O yeah my car runs rough at idle" say something to get your car looked at related to the new tsb's. Honestly it seems like Mazda technicians are nothing like Toyota technicians.....If theres a concern were required to look up tsb's and perform them before any necessary diagnosing is to be performed....its a no brainier to do it and take a whopping twenty seconds to plug in the year, make, and model into the computer and check if the customers VIN and determine if it is in or out of the available tsb's.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

step 1: don't mention the TSB's. Just read them and when you go to the dealership, follow CRH's advice.

step 2: you don't need ot have them all done, just be honest about your car.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Here is what you need to do :

Oh wait, first off, CEL means Check Engine Light.

Hmm, Walk in there, tell them this :

"My car is weird, its hard to start in both Cold & Hot, its like when the car has been sitting in my garage overnight, it takes like at least 4-5 seconds b4 it will start. Then after a long range driving, say 10 miles, stop for gas, then when I try to start it, its really hard.

When im going high way speed, the sunroof is rattleing like nutz(say this if u have sunroof).

When I turn my A/C on, my car shakes like crazy, and the idle is rough.

oh also I've heard of the latest recall for engine, can u update the ECU as well?"

Docj78

Wow. It sure sucks that stealership service centers have to be "conned" into performing TSB's. Jedi, you state that they don't all need to be done, but even if my car has not had floodong issues YET--wouldn't it make sense to have the new plugs/battery/starter installed pre-emptively???

It's as if these cars with the given understood flaws actually MUST fail within warranty coverage to get the PROPER parts installed and service done. Does the MSP-16 "supercede" all previous TSB's/attempts to address any engine related issue?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Go to the dealership, tell them your car hesitates, hard-starts when hot, and that you understand there is a new CAMPAIGN(key industry word) that will ensure your car will not fall out of emissions-compliance. A "campaign" in an in-process update or modification that is intended to bring a given vehicle(or series of vehicles) into safety, emissions, quality, or regulatory compliance to the satisfaction of the OEM. This happens all the time before the cars even leave the factory. You name it, I ended up in the shipping yard checking vehicles for compliance. Nice gig to have in the summer here in MI.

teknics

I'm going to fix some misinformation out here, especially since I work at a dealership. You will see in almost all of my posting here I use my knowledge to help people solve problems and give them advise about how to talk to the dealer to assist them in finding the problems they are having, almost like internet diagnosing but more or less steering the less rotor-abled towards the most likely culprits.

This being said I need to address people and their reactions to TSBs.

TSB's are not really meant for the general consumer to see, however they must legally be made available.

The most common misconception is that a TSB for one thing means every car has that problem and needs it replaced.

That is NOT what a TSB is. A TSB is a diagnostic aid for technicians working on your vehicle. It is there to enable us to find and repair your vehicle quickly by showing us what the most common causes are.

If you come in for a knocking noise, we look up TSB's (it's is step #2 in mazda's diagnostic procedure, after "Verify Concern") and find all and any that match the symptoms.

We then use the TSB's to assist us in reaching our final diagnosis. If things outlined in the TSB matchup to what we see, we know then that the information contained in the TSB will lead to a proper fix.

That doesnt mean that every TSB out there needs to be applied to your vehicle, it just means that if you ever DO run into the problem, it can be easily and quickly diagnosed.

To be completely honest it's rather frustrating to have people come in and want TSB's performed on there car because the consumer has diagnosed it or "just because". Doing this is how you get people to not want to "work with you" when future problems do arise. What everyone out there seems to forget is that the TECH is held responsible for everything he does. If we replace a part that is currently in perfect working order with a new part just because YOU want the TSB done it results in a long chain of people losing money, and in certain situations your car could be effected as well as the tech losing money as well. I'd love to replace every part on your car everytime it comes in, i get paid based on the amount of hours of work i perform on your car so why wouldnt i want to install 28 hours worth of stuff, and THAT is why mazda takes all the parts we replaced on your car and test and checks them to make sure we werent lying and giving away stuff just to make our own paychecks fatter.

So take it from me, enjoy your car being problem free, and relax knowing when/if you run into a problem the techs have the information they need to properly repair your vehicle in a timely fashion.

As far as the battery/starter/plugs thing, we are generally advised to replace all OLD style starters with the new versions, once you have a new version it is rare for us to re-replace them unless you truly manage to fry them out. The battery must be tested, as per mazda, and we must send them the computer-printed battery test slip to prove your battery is bad when we replace them. The plugs are basically automatically replaced cause flooding the motor is obviously the worst way to foul your plugs.

Now with all that said, do not feel/act like you have to "con" anyone, because in reality we're following procedure, TSBs are not blanket solutions in fact you may have problems that Match a TSB yet are caused by something other then what the TSB solves, I run into that all the time.

Just have a good attitude when you go to the dealer, do not be demanding, do not try to "fool" anyone and everything will work out fine. If not, then your dealer probably just sucks or isnt following the rules. Either that or find a dealership like mine, that has rotorheads like me working on rx8s, who know the problems of these cars and are willing and able to fix them at the first sign of trouble. Hell I've solved problems on peoples cars that they dont even notice as a problem until its fixed and theyre like "wow, i just thought the car was getting older or something"

kevin.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

That is true IF you have a later 05 model.

For earlier 05 Shinka, like mine, and most of the early 05 rx8. have/had the older starter and battery. of WHICH, they SHOULD replace it for free if you're still under warranty.

Most dealerships think customers are morons and if you tell them to do this tsb and that tsb, they will consider you as *trouble maker* and giving you ****. Cuz you know more than them, Great Neck Mazda hate me because I know more than them. Theres only a few dealerships out there will treat customer with all respect.

You dont really have to do all TSBs, For example : my Sun visor never broke, so why bother ?

but some important ones like Engine No Start & Engine Lack of power should be perform even if your car never had a problem.

Oh for Engine No Start TSB (Battery, Starter) you can check your VIN to see if its in range. or just tell your dealership to give you a copy of your service records. It tells you a complete list of TSB/RECALL that they've done(or whoever dealership) to your car.

Docj78

That was one of the most informative and enlightening posts I've read on this forum. Thanks.

Of course the thing that stands out to me the most in your post, is that which pertains to my situation. That is the legitimate request that the new spark plugs be installed (wires too?).

The LAST thing I want to do is create a negative relationship with my dealer--especially since the next closest is 70 miles away. I do not wish to seem over zealous, or worse, demanding. However, I do want what is best for my investment, and if part of that includes Mazda installing the upgraded plugs with or without prior flooding history, then that is what I expect to have happen.

Short of being a dick, how do you suggest I get that point across, and get the plugs replaced?

Docj78

Upon re-reading your post, it seems as though I would be within reason to request the newer starter as well. Correct?

teknics

Well as long as you have the old starter (it says N3H1 on top of the starter) and such just explain that you're experiencing hard starting or long starts. With the old style starter you definitely are experiencing it even if you arent aware, seriously the updated one is leaps and bounds above the old one.

Also on a '04 if the plugs have never been done theres a chance that you have the old style leading plugs, which suck, and could contribute to a loss of power/hard start that again you may not even notice.

I might try just asking them to inspect and make sure you have all the updated parts for your starting and ignition system as youve been experiencing intermittent problems that only driving the car everyday would be easy to be recognized. Or something along those lines, if you were in NJ I'd just say stop by me lol.

kevin.

Docj78

Thanks for he advice. One thing though--my car is an 05. I need to check the manufacture date, but the car went into service on 4/14/05--so it sounds like an earlier model year build. Just checked--looks like the manufacture date was 12/04...

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Listen to Kevin, You'll need the starter, its like night & day differents

Just tell your dealer that it takes a year b4 your car will start, they will do it.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

That's actually true, at least for my March '05-built Shinka. The new battery and starter were already on it.

I got my plugs swapped out as part of the 'voluntary emission recall' last year as well.

Just had the MSP16 done, reflash only as my '8 runs great.

I generally do bring in a hard copy of the TSB and clearly express my 'concern.' Just makes things easier.

Docj78

Well, I'll be checking my starter as soon as I get a second to see if I have the right starter. My car starts relatively-- quickly 1-3 seconds. But I'm more concerned about the long term, post warranty issues.

Was/is replacing plugs actually part of the INSTRUCTIONS in the recall, or something that was done as a courtesy or pre emptive step?

FWIW, what is the reference number(or whatever it's called) for this TSB?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

They will replace your LEADING plugs if they never did either Engine-No-Start or 4206f recall.

Dont count on that, just let them do whatever they need to do, if they dont replace your plugs just replace it yourself. its 20 bux a pop. Not that bad IMO.

Docj78

Yea, I can see myself doing them myself--along with most other minor stuff.

I bought this car w/ the intentions of "keeping it up" on my own as much as possible. This is what I do with my truck as well. It's like I said in one of my first few posts-- I feel like this is an enthusiasts car, and that's how I intend to own it.

These first few weeks though, I am very apprehensive and a bit overwhelmed. That is why I have basically lived on this site for the last 2 days. Trying to ask and read as much as I can, while trying not to clutter the forum too bad!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Make sure to read the stickies, do searches, and keep a list of names that keep popping up. Several of us have specific areas of interest that have lead us to also having particular knowledge on a given subject. Although I try to stay on top of as much as I can, you'll find I am most known for nitrous use, for example.

kristopher_d

the4v3ry, I've had great success with Lee Johnson, but do keep in mind teknics' post about TSB's not being recalls. I have a good raport with Scott Trail, one of the service writers there. Hit me up and I'll meet you there and we can talk with Scott about your concerns.

the4v3ry

Wow, you guys have all been awesome on this post. Thank you so much!

Now that I know a TSB isn't a recall, I feel much different. My dealership just replaced by starter, battery, plugs and PCM (to MSP16), and did it all when they saw my dead-battery car sitting in their lot Monday morning. Boom.

It seems to me (so far) that the only TSBs you REALLY need to try to watch out for before your warranty is up on an '04 are the following:
-Starter, Battery, Plugs
-PCM Flash
-Condensation in lights

Missing anything major?