2004 RX-8 MT - Dead after 145k Miles - Replace the Engine?
11-03-2009, 01:14 PM
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2004 RX-8 MT - Dead after 145k Miles - Replace the Engine?
Well, after 145,000 miles, my 2004 RX-8 MT is dead. I hope you don’t mind the long post, but I know there are a lot of questions about the longevity of our cars, so I thought I’d give some details about mine. I bought the car in January 2005 with only 6k miles on it just before taking a new job that required driving long distances. I basically drove it 35k miles a year with a lot of highway miles.
I did my best to take good care of the car. I used only premium 93 octane gas and I changed the oil regularly every 3,000 miles using only conventional 5W 20 oil (Castrol GTX mostly) for the first 80k miles and then switched to 5w 20 synthetic (Mobil 1) the rest of the way. I also changed the plugs and wires every 40k miles. The only modification I made to the car was adding a Revi intake at the 80k mile mark.
At about the 120k mile mark I started having problems with the car. The car began slowly leaking oil and antifreeze and it became necessary to refill the antifreeze even though I never previously lost a drop. The care became more and more difficult to start and after getting the car started it would have a very rough idle until the engine warmed up and I noticed the smell of exhaust in the cabin. I assumed I had a clogged cat since it had never been changed.
I first tried replacing the plugs, wires, and coils hoping that all it needed was a tune up, but I wasn’t so lucky. I found oil in the intake which I later learned in the forum could be due to the secondary shutter valve (SSV) in the intake manifold becoming stuck open due to carbon build up. I never drove the car hard and usually shifted at the 4-5k RPM mark, so without revving the car often along the way it is very possible I had a lot of carbon build up. I bought some Seafoam and wanted to try taking the intake manifold apart to unclog the SSV, but I never made it that far.
After numerous attempts spread out between many days, the car now refuses to start and I have a good puddle of oil and antifreeze on the driveway. It’s probably safe to assume that the seals are gone and I don’t have enough compression left to even get the car started.
So now the question becomes, what do I do now? Even though I haven’t added much to conversation, I’ve been a member of this forum ever since 2004. I read it all the time and I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and information available to the non-mechanics such as me. I would appreciate some input on what my next step should be.
1. Should I bother having the engine rebuilt or should I buy a new replacement engine?
2. Were there improvements made to the engine between the 2006-2008 model year?
3. Would an engine made between 2006-08 fit into my 2004 without any significant modification?
4. Should I buy a new engine or an engine that has been rebuilt?
5. Any suggestions as to where I should buy a replacement engine?
I am willing to keep the car if I can replace the engine at a reasonable cost. I suppose the other option would be to sell the car as-is to someone willing to work on the car. I am located in the Delaware/South Jersey area in case anyone is interested in taking that option.
Thank you in advance for your advice and suggestions. As I said, I think the knowledge available within this forum fantastic and I will make my next move based on your responses.
I did my best to take good care of the car. I used only premium 93 octane gas and I changed the oil regularly every 3,000 miles using only conventional 5W 20 oil (Castrol GTX mostly) for the first 80k miles and then switched to 5w 20 synthetic (Mobil 1) the rest of the way. I also changed the plugs and wires every 40k miles. The only modification I made to the car was adding a Revi intake at the 80k mile mark.
At about the 120k mile mark I started having problems with the car. The car began slowly leaking oil and antifreeze and it became necessary to refill the antifreeze even though I never previously lost a drop. The care became more and more difficult to start and after getting the car started it would have a very rough idle until the engine warmed up and I noticed the smell of exhaust in the cabin. I assumed I had a clogged cat since it had never been changed.
I first tried replacing the plugs, wires, and coils hoping that all it needed was a tune up, but I wasn’t so lucky. I found oil in the intake which I later learned in the forum could be due to the secondary shutter valve (SSV) in the intake manifold becoming stuck open due to carbon build up. I never drove the car hard and usually shifted at the 4-5k RPM mark, so without revving the car often along the way it is very possible I had a lot of carbon build up. I bought some Seafoam and wanted to try taking the intake manifold apart to unclog the SSV, but I never made it that far.
After numerous attempts spread out between many days, the car now refuses to start and I have a good puddle of oil and antifreeze on the driveway. It’s probably safe to assume that the seals are gone and I don’t have enough compression left to even get the car started.
So now the question becomes, what do I do now? Even though I haven’t added much to conversation, I’ve been a member of this forum ever since 2004. I read it all the time and I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and information available to the non-mechanics such as me. I would appreciate some input on what my next step should be.
1. Should I bother having the engine rebuilt or should I buy a new replacement engine?
2. Were there improvements made to the engine between the 2006-2008 model year?
3. Would an engine made between 2006-08 fit into my 2004 without any significant modification?
4. Should I buy a new engine or an engine that has been rebuilt?
5. Any suggestions as to where I should buy a replacement engine?
I am willing to keep the car if I can replace the engine at a reasonable cost. I suppose the other option would be to sell the car as-is to someone willing to work on the car. I am located in the Delaware/South Jersey area in case anyone is interested in taking that option.
Thank you in advance for your advice and suggestions. As I said, I think the knowledge available within this forum fantastic and I will make my next move based on your responses.
11-03-2009, 02:30 PM
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A rebuild would definitely ensure that you would have the least amount of mileage on your new motor. Also, a reputable rotary engine specialist would build the motor with tighter tolerances. This with the addition of the revised flashes should net you the same amount of mileage as your previous motor.
I know that the guys over at BHR are able to perform this service which is pretty intensive - replace rotors and housings if necessary, replace other auxiliary parts, replace the seals, and etc.
If you're happy with the current power and your car in general, go with a rebuilt Renesis engine from BHR or other reputable rotary shops.
There's really no other "cheap" options for this car. 20b 3 Rotor swaps would cost twice what the car is worth. 13b REW swaps are also on the 20k budget range. LSX engine swaps would be also up there.
I know that the guys over at BHR are able to perform this service which is pretty intensive - replace rotors and housings if necessary, replace other auxiliary parts, replace the seals, and etc.
If you're happy with the current power and your car in general, go with a rebuilt Renesis engine from BHR or other reputable rotary shops.
There's really no other "cheap" options for this car. 20b 3 Rotor swaps would cost twice what the car is worth. 13b REW swaps are also on the 20k budget range. LSX engine swaps would be also up there.
11-03-2009, 03:08 PM
#3
Given your previous ownership tendencies, I would probably shoot for a reman from Mazmart or possibly BHR. I wouldn't go for any fancy bells and whistles - just a stout, clean motor ready to pound some pavement. There may be a couple "low hanging fruit" type improvements to be had. In south Jersey, I'd take the car to JPRImports in Blackwood. Jim's a fine rotary mechanic who I have had do some significant work in my engine bay. It'll take a few weeks to get a reman engine and get it put in, but if you have the time, it might come in for at a reasonable budget. One thing you might want to have done is have the accessories looked at and your intake cleaned out. You may have cracked the keg somewhere causing the coolant leak. 150k isn't a bad lifespan.
11-03-2009, 03:09 PM
#4
go with a rebuilt engine--one can obtained for $3K Mazmart is another good engine builder, Pettit racing also, BHR team etc ---lots of good ones out there and you have choices. the shipping and install will be extra of course.
All o4-o8 engines will fit (not the auto trans one)
New engine would be to expensive.
It was well taken care of and it lasted. Good Luck.
OD
All o4-o8 engines will fit (not the auto trans one)
New engine would be to expensive.
It was well taken care of and it lasted. Good Luck.
OD
11-03-2009, 05:38 PM
#5
Nice report, thanks.
If you have the current motor disassembled, be sure and post pics of the rotor housings and bearings. Would be very interesting to see the insides of a 145k motor that used 5w20 all its life but was rarely revved hard.
Did you ever premix? I'm assuming not?
If you have the current motor disassembled, be sure and post pics of the rotor housings and bearings. Would be very interesting to see the insides of a 145k motor that used 5w20 all its life but was rarely revved hard.
Did you ever premix? I'm assuming not?
11-03-2009, 05:56 PM
#7
If you're going to let Paul/Mazmart do an engine build, leave the engine sealed and ship it to them whole. That way all the little bits stay in place and they can give some really good feedback on high mileage wear. They could probably source another engine to use for the rebuild and then give you back your core charge when your engine gets to them.
11-03-2009, 06:04 PM
#8
If the rest of your car is in good condition, there's no reason not to get a reman. engine, which would be cheaper than buying a new car.
I would minimize risk by going with a Mazmart reman. engine.
I would minimize risk by going with a Mazmart reman. engine.
11-04-2009, 12:54 AM
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I really appreciate everyone's responses. I knew I would be well taken care of.
Maxxdamigz - Thank you for the tip on JPRImports. Blackwood isn't far from me at all. I will definitely look into it.
Paul/Mazmart - Would you anyone else for that matter have any ideas how to get the old engine shipped from NJ to Atlanta? What woud be the estimated cost?
Would a remanufactured engine cost about $3,000.00? I understand if you wouldn't want to quote a price in the forum. Please send a private message or e-mail to davinci74@aol.com.
I thought I remember reading there were injection and oil flow improvements to the later model engines. Am I mistaken about that?
Thank you everyone for your suggestions.
Maxxdamigz - Thank you for the tip on JPRImports. Blackwood isn't far from me at all. I will definitely look into it.
Paul/Mazmart - Would you anyone else for that matter have any ideas how to get the old engine shipped from NJ to Atlanta? What woud be the estimated cost?
Would a remanufactured engine cost about $3,000.00? I understand if you wouldn't want to quote a price in the forum. Please send a private message or e-mail to davinci74@aol.com.
I thought I remember reading there were injection and oil flow improvements to the later model engines. Am I mistaken about that?
Thank you everyone for your suggestions.
11-04-2009, 07:22 AM
#10
JPR would definitely be my installer of choice in your area with a really strong experience and reputation. I've dealt with Jim on several occasions and find him to be straightforward and honest in addition to his knowledge and experience.
Our present pricing is $2700 plus $1000 core charge. Shipping is additional and I would need to look that up for you. We return $300 for each useable rotor housing.
The only improvements to oil metering for a pre 09 car are flash related. Running a bit of pre mix in your fuel is the only way to extend apex seal life beyond that especially as it can ensure the whole area gets protection.
Paul.
Our present pricing is $2700 plus $1000 core charge. Shipping is additional and I would need to look that up for you. We return $300 for each useable rotor housing.
The only improvements to oil metering for a pre 09 car are flash related. Running a bit of pre mix in your fuel is the only way to extend apex seal life beyond that especially as it can ensure the whole area gets protection.
Paul.
11-04-2009, 07:52 AM
#11
Mazmart telephone # is 1 800-221-5156 give Paul a call --he will take care of you. Like others have said--if the rest of the car is in good shape ---this would be the way to go.
Plus Mazmart dissects the engines and post what they found so the rest of us can see what they have found and maybe learn something.
A Mazmart engine( and I am sure other builders engines also) will run better than the oem.
OD
Plus Mazmart dissects the engines and post what they found so the rest of us can see what they have found and maybe learn something.
A Mazmart engine( and I am sure other builders engines also) will run better than the oem.
OD
11-04-2009, 09:09 AM
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Paul, you come highly recommended. I've followed nycgps throughout the forum, and I respect his opinion, so I know your reputation is solid. I will give you a call within a day or two to discuss the logistics. Thanks again to everyone for their assistance.
11-04-2009, 09:25 AM
#14
He's as bad as Can
Davinci74 I had a Mazmart engine installed by JPR around 110,000 I also recommend going that route. Paul also did an autopsy on my motor and one of his conclusions might also apply to yours. If you do go this route please contact me for some other pointers.
11-04-2009, 09:33 AM
#15
What I would do is stop by Jim's shop (JPR). It's basically a word of mouth shop in an office/storage complex - not hard to get to but don't expect a big sign. Just look for a building that has maybe 10 rx7s around it. Talk to Jim. It's just him and one other guy in the shop so give him a call before you head over to make sure he's not closed for lunch or out working on a car. If you like him/his shop, and you will (and you'll see some awesome rotary goodness inside), have your car towed over and just let him have at it. He can probably arrange a freight pickup for your engine and take delivery of your reman. I had all my turbo gear shipped direct to his shop because shipping to a business is cheaper.
Anyway, after gabbing with Jim for 10 minutes or 2 hours, you should be fairly confident in what you want to do. See if he's still using that busted up laptop with the cracked screen.
Anyway, after gabbing with Jim for 10 minutes or 2 hours, you should be fairly confident in what you want to do. See if he's still using that busted up laptop with the cracked screen.
11-04-2009, 10:01 AM
#16
He's as bad as Can
He was still using that laptop when he did my engine last year. I wonder if he ever got that rotary powered Porsche done?
11-04-2009, 03:30 PM
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Expo - I've read so many of your posts. I'm appreciative of your comments as well.
Maxx - Thanks for the heads up. It sounds like using Jim is a no-brainer.
Maxx - Thanks for the heads up. It sounds like using Jim is a no-brainer.
11-04-2009, 06:55 PM
#18
Stuck in a love triangle
Get a brand new or very low mileage engine (less than 10k miles) and slap on a turbocharger. It'd be like driving a brand new car...except for the suspension, interior, exterior, and shell/frame having 145k miles worth of wear on them.
12-13-2009, 10:10 PM
#19
NO A/C :(
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Well, any updates on the new motor yet or did you opt for a new ride? I'm just above 100,000 miles with no problems. I push my car hard but also keep everything up to date if needed. I know of someone who is not on the forum with just under 200,000 miles so I believe in our cars.
