newport8

My rotary engine just failed. I was idling at a light when the engine began to show symptoms of stalling. Then all of a sudden there was a lot of shuddering, rattling, sputtering and knocking in the engine, and hardly any power was being put to the wheels. I stopped the engine, but then couldn't get it started again. After a day, I was able to get it started again, and it would sound normal, but as soon as I tried to drive it, the rattling and knocking would start again.

I think this is a core engine problem, so it's been towed to the dealership (Galpin Mazda in Van Nuys near Los Angeles). I'm awaiting their diagnosis. I'm thinking it'll be covered by the extended engine warranty. But frankly, I'm just as afraid that they will "find" other things wrong with it that are not covered by the warranty, but that have to be fixed, and at no small cost to me. The service guy made brief mention of this over the phone when I was talking to him. (Why mention something like that? It was odd.)

I'm supposed to get the call back soon, so we'll see. I just wanted to post this here before it happens, so that if it does, I can vent to someone. Ha!

And by the way, I felt like I kept this car very well maintained. I had a major service over the summer at 43k mi, and because I don't drive it that much, had another major service two years prior at 38k mi. If they come back to me and tell me that I didn't properly care for the car, I'll be pissed.

Silverisk8

iTrader: (1)

you have no compresion.... wait and see what the dealer says about the diagnostic, allthough they will hammer you on some parts that are not required.... search the forum about those who have had their engine replaced and be on the lookout for scams by the dealer... i got my motor replaced and mazda tried to invoice me for a new updated starter ( $1000) I told them no and bought a updated starter for $400... there are a lot of parts you can save if you actually know your vehicle...

Old Rotor

Please give us the history on your car. The service it's had parts replaced. Type of driving it gets(short trip), fuel used(reg or prem), ever flooded. Just any thing that you can add. What mods? Did you buy new? Do you have proof of service?

newport8

Bought this car new in September 2003. For the first year of its life, drove it a lot over long distances. But then I moved and haven't driven it nearly as much because I either walked to work or took the bus. So for much of it's life it's been used over short distances. In the first few months I tried putting 89 octane in the tank, but since then, I've always used 91.

I've never had any problems, although in the fall I noticed the coolant light come on, and I had to put more coolant into the car. I was surprised at how low it was.

I have all service records. I've changed the oil at a dealership every 5,000 miles, and of course, I had to top off the oil myself usually at least once between changes. At 15,000 miles I had an intermediate service. At 38,000 miles I had a major service, and then two years later, at 43,300 miles, I had another major service done. I have all the records.

No modifications to the car. Everything is stock.

Like I said, no problems until now.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like it started as a failing coolant seal....was it blowing white smoke at startup?

That should be covered by the core warranty....

Don't let them rape you for the coils/wires/plugs...if they must change them tell them you will buy them online if they won't give you the same pricing structure...and the install should be free...they have to re/re all of them off the old engine anyway

2tone

iTrader: (3)

There's your problem

newport8

Yeah, I saw white smoke coming out of the exhaust at startup.

What's a failing coolant seal?

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear about your misfourtune. My '04 only has a few thousand miles more than yours and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Wasn't this part of the failure mode for the early cars, before they increased the OMP delivery? I seem to recall that the worst case scenario was long freeeway drives in hot climates. Something about the oil delivery being inadequate at cruising rpms.

[edit] But yes, the white smoke would indicate another kind of failure.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

In between the irons and the rotor housings there are o-ring seals that seal the engine parts to make it into the shortblock......they can fail and leak coolant into the combustion chamber...and you get white smoke Kinda like a head gasket on a piston engine...

Small leak will result in lowering coolant levels and not much else...till it gets worse, and the engine quits

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

So, slow coolant leak + an engine that is not used daily = corrosion, I suppose.

newport8

So here's what Galpin Mazda said. They are required by Mazda to bring the car up to "best" working ability before Mazda technicians come in to run a test on the engine. As a result, they need to replace the cam sensor and the ignition coils and wires.

The cam sensor will cost $171.76 parts plus $230 labor.

The ignition coils cost 4x $53.69 = $214.76. The wires cost $91.54. Labor is $115.

Once these are "repaired" the car will be in best working condition, then the guys from Mazda can come in and do a compression test on it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

That's bullshit, your eating coolant how can they get it to "best working ability"? Cam shaft sensor? No such thing, E shaft sensor?

You can get coils and wires for under $180.00 and do it your self in 30 minutes. The e shaft sensor is easy too.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

cam sensor????

newport8

camshaft position sensor maybe? that's all I know.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

The point is - there is no camshaft in a rotary...

newport8

I was able to negotiate a 15% discount on the parts (had a competing dealership's coupon), but otherwise, I pretty much have to get shafted on the labor. I wish I could take the car and drive it somewhere else to get repaired, but (1) the car barely drives, (2) if I towed it somewhere else, the cost of towing probably wouldn't make it worth it, (3) if I went somewhere else, the dealership would charge me for the diagnostic test ($115), (4) I don't have all the time in the world to deal with this myself.

They pretty much had me over a barrel, and I just had to take it and like it.

Detrich

ack, that sucks... i've been to galpin in van nuys for service before, and they seemed pretty good...

to me, it seems that if a car is under warranty and has specific issues or symptoms related to what the warranty covers, it seems to me like diagnosing it should be part of the warranty- unless the end result comes back to be completely un-related, which in this case is most likely not.

i think that after they do a compression test and find that your motor is bad or what not, that you then have a very arguable case to mazda in having them refund the bullshit "best working" state fees the dealer is shafting you with...

don't take it laying down, and make a stink about it at the right time.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

This is standard operating procedure unfortunately. I would have changed the stuff on the lot.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

There is no way I would pay $230 for them to replace the Eccentric shaft sensor...it's held on by one bolt..and is accessible without removing anything....would take about 5 minutes with a one handed monkey doing the work.....

The coil labor isn't bad...but if your car is eating coolant...there is no way that coils/plugs/wires will do ****...

I would call MNAO and talk to someone about this before you get hosed......

newport8

Too late, already approved the job. I will be calling MNAO tomorrow though, just to confirm that they really do require bringing the vehicle up to "best operating ability" before running a compression test on the engine.

Tamas

iTrader: (1)

If they conclude that your engine has to be replaced, you must get back the money for installing unnecessary parts that did not fix the issue. In other words, in that case ask for 100% reimbursement. In case they say that you have new parts, tell them that you want your old parts to be reinstalled and your money back.

newport8

Just got the call from Galpin Mazda today. The ignition coils and wires were replaced and the cam sensor as well (whatever that is, I'm going to report back with the part number when I get it), and now the car runs fine, according to the dealership.

Huh? Really? I asked about the CEL code, and he said it was a P0300. Could my "faulty" ignition coils and wires have really produced a misfire that would cause that sort of engine failure mid-drive? Where the power is drastically reduced and I can barely move forward? And the engine is shuddering and sputtering? And where I can't start it again afterwards? And the next day when I manage to get it started it sounds like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-fGipa25Lg (This is not my car.)

Also, I told them about the coolant issue, and they found a leak in the hoses, but not in the o-rings that would leak coolant into the engine. So the white smoke that I saw coming out of the exhaust was just coincidence. Maybe it was water vapor condensation in the engine from leaving it outside overnight? My car is usually garaged. Of course, the dealership was more than happy to do the repair for $250-$350.

Anyway, that's where it is now. I'm going to go pick up the car and see for myself. In some ways, I'm disappointed that the engine didn't fail. Mostly because now I have to pay the dealership about $800 in repairs. I guess I would have had to pay it anyway, even if the engine had failed, but if I didn't think it was an engine failure problem, I wouldn't have taken it to a dealership.

newport8

So I got my car back today, and everything does seem to be running fine. It's just like it was running before this ordeal.

Here are the actual part numbers that got replaced:

N3A1-18-221A Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor
N3H1-18-100B-9U Ignition Coil
N3H1-18-140B Ignition Wires

Anyone know the list prices on these so that I can confirm what they charged me with what list prices actually were?

xsnipersgox

you will always get ripped off at a dealership, that being said, they just threw a bunch of parts at the problem and pray it fix, this time, it did.

marineusemperfi

i have a question i am having the same difficulties with my 2004, so what all did u have done to your 8? i am really stressin that it is bigger than all this, my car is sputtering to no end and it just happened all of a sudden i am a second owner and i believe the plugs have never been changed, a mazda tech is soppose to be looking over my car tommorow.