Turbocharging auto RX8
RotoRocks Powered
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 6
From: Delray Beach, FL
RR - are you saying a map based on 6 injectors is ok to try and run on a 4 injector engine? I personally, would not expect a tuned turbo map to run well on a sc engine. The volumetric efficiencies and fuel requirements would be different.
The expectations for a base map are generally that the car runs, but probably, if anything, runs rich. For that purpose, best guessing based calculations is a reasonable approach. Running a tune from an identical system is also valid. Running a tune from a different system be it Greddy kit to PTP kit or anything else, I don't find that to be a great idea. If the 6 port and 4 port engines ran the same, they'd have the same torque curves till 6250.
Then again, I don't think it would be hard to track down base maps for AT greddy installs.
The expectations for a base map are generally that the car runs, but probably, if anything, runs rich. For that purpose, best guessing based calculations is a reasonable approach. Running a tune from an identical system is also valid. Running a tune from a different system be it Greddy kit to PTP kit or anything else, I don't find that to be a great idea. If the 6 port and 4 port engines ran the same, they'd have the same torque curves till 6250.
Then again, I don't think it would be hard to track down base maps for AT greddy installs.
RotoRocks Powered
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 6
From: Delray Beach, FL
RR you may be confusing the APV with the VDIE. I set the VDIE to 9500rpm which is above the user definable rev_cut (9250rpm as shipped) in the base maps for F/I because using it causes a loss in power. The APV turns the motor from a 4 port into a 6 port at 6250rpm. Scott
Thanks.
What do I use to control the APV in the Int-X? I want to play with those too.
RotoRocks Powered
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 6
From: Delray Beach, FL
Supercharger over turbo, how is the volume of air going to be different here?
And if the volume is the same why should the fuel requirement be different?
EMU upgrade, as shipped, will not work on the 4 port. The injector wiring is wrong. You'll run lean.
The Int-X tuned for the 6 port will be similarly lean because the injector PW is setup for ~800cc of aux volume, not ~500cc.
Neither system cares about the APV and both control the secondary, so electrically they are equivalent in that regard on both platforms.
All other arguments aside, this is all that really matters.
The Int-X tuned for the 6 port will be similarly lean because the injector PW is setup for ~800cc of aux volume, not ~500cc.
Neither system cares about the APV and both control the secondary, so electrically they are equivalent in that regard on both platforms.
All other arguments aside, this is all that really matters.
RotoRocks Powered
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 6
From: Delray Beach, FL
EMU upgrade, as shipped, will not work on the 4 port. The injector wiring is wrong. You'll run lean.
The Int-X tuned for the 6 port will be similarly lean because the injector PW is setup for ~800cc of aux volume, not ~500cc.
Neither system cares about the APV and both control the secondary, so electrically they are equivalent in that regard on both platforms.
All other arguments aside, this is all that really matters.
The Int-X tuned for the 6 port will be similarly lean because the injector PW is setup for ~800cc of aux volume, not ~500cc.
Neither system cares about the APV and both control the secondary, so electrically they are equivalent in that regard on both platforms.
All other arguments aside, this is all that really matters.
After I started that, I did think about the third pair of injectors, and how they are wired and stuff, but being not entirely sure and seeing that no one else mentioned it, but kept on pushing the flow/volume/fuel I figured that I'll just stand my ground
So I agree, though for all the wrong reasons Mysql was right (pure luck
). You won't be able to safely use the MT maps on AT. Nevertheless, you must admit that conceptually my logic is undeniable. 
Just one last bark at the moon...
Never mind, I am to drunk to even bark at this point.
Last edited by rotorocks; Jul 18, 2007 at 10:20 PM.
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,823
Likes: 2
From: Vegas Baby!
I might hold off on the SC till the other one comes out thats not a screw and dont have a cooler like the 350z guys have so can you think of what it would be like to run a cooler on the other SC! dam no more over heating!
The inner-cooler does not cool the car just the compressed air. It's not the s/c that directly causes overheating it's your driving habits that will cause the over heating. You'll spend more time in boost thus causing our already hot engine to just generate more heat. Yes heat is generated by compressing the air that will add to the problem. Since we elect to live in Las Vegas we need to be specially diligent about cooling. I think that Richard Paul is working on a s/c he says will not require an after cooler. I guess there might be a way to beat mother nature. Your just going to have to move to a cooler climate or invest in a better radiator.
The Int-X tuned for the 6 port will be similarly lean because the injector PW is setup for ~800cc of aux volume, not ~500cc.
Either way tho - i believe if you decide to go greddy, the base map will need to be tuned anyways.
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,823
Likes: 2
From: Vegas Baby!
I feel the cooling has to come from all angles to work.
The inner-cooler does not cool the car just the compressed air. It's not the s/c that directly causes overheating it's your driving habits that will cause the over heating. You'll spend more time in boost thus causing our already hot engine to just generate more heat. Yes heat is generated by compressing the air that will add to the problem. Since we elect to live in Las Vegas we need to be specially diligent about cooling. I think that Richard Paul is working on a s/c he says will not require an after cooler. I guess there might be a way to beat mother nature. Your just going to have to move to a cooler climate or invest in a better radiator.
Last edited by DOMINION; Aug 19, 2007 at 12:05 AM.
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,823
Likes: 2
From: Vegas Baby!
lol
Dave (09Factor) has the regular GReddy kit with an EMU that I setup and tuned.
He still has some power left on the table, but we'll go for that later in the season when it cools off a bit.
He still has some power left on the table, but we'll go for that later in the season when it cools off a bit.
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 5
From: Surprise, Arizona
Hey Phil. You're not wrong. I'll be a SSX. Well I had better be or i paid for a hotel room for nothing.
MM and I felt that right now it's just too hot to be aggressively tuning my car.
just for peoples enlightenment:
The placement of the Greddy air intake as we know sucks. This is had bad it sucks.
The intake temp were between 147 - 197 degrees! This is Really conducive to a good tunning session.
After moving the intake Outside of the engine bay intake temps are ambient temp now. Mucho better for making power..
I plan to rebuild it after the first of next year anyway. Why? just because I feel like it.
MM and I felt that right now it's just too hot to be aggressively tuning my car.
just for peoples enlightenment:
The placement of the Greddy air intake as we know sucks. This is had bad it sucks.
The intake temp were between 147 - 197 degrees! This is Really conducive to a good tunning session.
After moving the intake Outside of the engine bay intake temps are ambient temp now. Mucho better for making power..
I plan to rebuild it after the first of next year anyway. Why? just because I feel like it.
Hey Phil. You're not wrong. I'll be a SSX. Well I had better be or i paid for a hotel room for nothing.
MM and I felt that right now it's just too hot to be aggressively tuning my car.
just for peoples enlightenment:
The placement of the Greddy air intake as we know sucks. This is had bad it sucks.
The intake temp were between 147 - 197 degrees! This is Really conducive to a good tunning session.
After moving the intake Outside of the engine bay intake temps are ambient temp now. Mucho better for making power..
I plan to rebuild it after the first of next year anyway. Why? just because I feel like it.
MM and I felt that right now it's just too hot to be aggressively tuning my car.
just for peoples enlightenment:
The placement of the Greddy air intake as we know sucks. This is had bad it sucks.
The intake temp were between 147 - 197 degrees! This is Really conducive to a good tunning session.
After moving the intake Outside of the engine bay intake temps are ambient temp now. Mucho better for making power..
I plan to rebuild it after the first of next year anyway. Why? just because I feel like it.
I'll be giving all the SC fanbois at SSX ride-a-longs!
However Phil, you are the only one that doesn't have to pay a fee!
I may actually come up Saturday night instead of Sunday morning. That means we can get started pretty early on Sunday if you are up to it.
However Phil, you are the only one that doesn't have to pay a fee!
I may actually come up Saturday night instead of Sunday morning. That means we can get started pretty early on Sunday if you are up to it.
