A/T level ten upgrade
02-04-2011, 10:13 AM
#26
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I like the auto tranny ( I actually love it), and this car was not designed for track racing either (4ports)
Turbo or supercharger is out of the question with the high comp renesis for my car I do not want to deal with an FI renesis it's just stupid in my personal opinion and not about the money factor.
Ill just drive my 7 if I want to race... I track race not drag.
thanks for the advice
Turbo or supercharger is out of the question with the high comp renesis for my car I do not want to deal with an FI renesis it's just stupid in my personal opinion and not about the money factor.
Ill just drive my 7 if I want to race... I track race not drag.
thanks for the advice
02-04-2011, 01:05 PM
#27
I like the auto tranny ( I actually love it), and this car was not designed for track racing either (4ports) I think you will find that this car was in fact designed for road type track racing. I know of many 4 ports that whip everything thru the corners - loose a little on the straights but gain in the corners.
Turbo or supercharger is out of the question with the high comp renesis for my car I do not want to deal with an FI renesis it's just stupid in my personal opinion and not about the money factor.
I have owned detroit iron vehicles and foreign vehicles of both high and low compression. The addition of FI only will aid the performance of that vehicle. Granted low compression vehicles gain more than high performance but both benifit.
Ill just drive my 7 if I want to race... I track race not drag.
thanks for the advice
Turbo or supercharger is out of the question with the high comp renesis for my car I do not want to deal with an FI renesis it's just stupid in my personal opinion and not about the money factor.
I have owned detroit iron vehicles and foreign vehicles of both high and low compression. The addition of FI only will aid the performance of that vehicle. Granted low compression vehicles gain more than high performance but both benifit.
Ill just drive my 7 if I want to race... I track race not drag.
thanks for the advice
This may come off mean but here goes- We're trying to get everything we can out of our cars, that's a statement I think you are very familiar with. And honestly FI is just way too expensive for most people. Consider how much you have spent on your car, now do you think the majority of RX owners have that to spend? We aren't trying to use the car for something it's not meant for, any car with the proper mods will do what you want. Maybe we're just looking for a different end result than you are? If the AT is to have any sort of dead stop launch ability the torque converter and stall rate need to be addressed. Even with the TC changed it still won't be a drag strip king and I think we all know that. It's just another one of those mods that will give a slight performance increase if the buyer is willing to justify the cost. We all know how little the intake's provide but seems like we all have them right? My .02 cents
Last edited by Phil's 8; 02-04-2011 at 02:08 PM.
02-04-2011, 02:17 PM
#28
I agree that the stall speed does absolutely nothing other than set the rpm you can launch an automatic tranny at but I don't think you can say it does nothing. A higher stall would only help your initial start unless you stall at such a high rpm that when you launch it just spins the tires but I think we can all agree that's not going to happen with this car. As you agree that most cannot afford what you have and even without seeing your car in person I'm sure your performance is amazing compared to a stock motor. But consider this- If you were to take a stock 4port motor and launch it at 4K there's no doubt the launch would be much more impressive than what it is now and replacing a torque converter is a lot less than FI! I'm certainly not trying to build a drag racing 4port auto but I believe a higher stall would greatly help the 4port autos off the line, and only off the line. Phil- you performance is great I'm sure, but what kind of numbers would you see if you launched YOUR car at twice the rpm from a start!? I do 100% realize that this is more of a drag racing topic but if we could leave that out of the discussion and just discuss off the line performance, I don't think the stall can or should be overlooked. It's not that it's too low either I just think our motors don't put out enough power at that rpm to make it effective and increasing the stall rate would greatly help the 4ports.
Last edited by JTtheDude; 02-04-2011 at 02:42 PM.
02-04-2011, 03:07 PM
#29
I agree that the stall speed does absolutely nothing other than set the rpm you can launch an automatic tranny at but I don't think you can say it does nothing. A higher stall would only help your initial start unless you stall at such a high rpm that when you launch it just spins the tires but I think we can all agree that's not going to happen with this car. As you agree that most cannot afford what you have and even without seeing your car in person I'm sure your performance is amazing compared to a stock motor. But consider this- If you were to take a stock 4port motor and launch it at 4K there's no doubt the launch would be much more impressive than what it is now and replacing a torque converter is a lot less than FI! I'm certainly not trying to build a drag racing 4port auto but I believe a higher stall would greatly help the 4port autos off the line, and only off the line. Phil- you performance is great I'm sure, but what kind of numbers would you see if you launched YOUR car at twice the rpm from a start!? I do 100% realize that this is more of a drag racing topic but if we could leave that out of the discussion and just discuss off the line performance, I don't think the stall can or should be overlooked. It's not that it's too low either I just think our motors don't put out enough power at that rpm to make it effective and increasing the stall rate would greatly help the 4ports.
02-04-2011, 03:15 PM
#30
Keep in mind, my transmission went on me and it needed to be rebuilt. For Level Ten to rebuild it to stock specs would have cost $3,200. For them to make it into one of their performance transmission cost $4,400. I figured it was only $1,200 dollars more to have a woory free transmission. I wish I never had to have my transmission rebuilt, but I did. After all said and done the car drives better with the high stall speed. I know its not a drag car or even a fast car.
02-04-2011, 03:18 PM
#31
The torque converters are no where near that cost Phil. You can send in your existing TC to Level 10 and have it rebuilt for $500, you can have a new TC from them for $900. I think it's something that will always cause discussion and different opinions from different people. It's something the buyer has to want and justify the cost for, it's not for everyone.
Last edited by JTtheDude; 02-04-2011 at 03:41 PM.
02-04-2011, 08:33 PM
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[QUOTE=Phil's 8;3871642]I think you will find that this car was in fact designed for road type track racing. I know of many 4 ports that whip everything thru the corners - loose a little on the straights but gain in the corners.
Phil again you confuse me.
nope noticed that I mentioned 4 port. I did track my 4 port, twice to be exact. The 6 port auto is better and I am planning on building an rx-8 for track using auto transmission, the car in fact is a lot easier to race and very competitive if setup properly with an auto transmission.
On corners the 4 port or 6 port rx-8 is the same its the same braking and chasis so obviously it is a track car in that sense. The 4 speed auto just plain sucks for anything sporty Phil. It was not designed for anything to do with racing. These models as you know only come with one heat exchanger and overheat very easily, gearing is just bad, you cannot use the power exactly were you need it, and there is a huge rpm gap between gears. The dual radiator deal is easily fixed by installing another one, but gearing is just not right.
on a different subject,
I again personally believe that FI a renesis is not an option but stupid. I believe a complete 13BREW swap is the way to go (working in one with P2000 and single turbo). You know $2500 is peanuts for a well designed turbo system. You mentioned that if the tranny mod is over 2500 its better to turbo. Come on man. You cannot turbo a renesis for that much even doing all the work yourself. Just a decent turbo sets you back over 1500 not including all the electronics to monitor and to properly tune a car. On my seven which is a poormans project I have over 5000 in bolt ons and its still a cheapo setup, using a megasquirt and ebay parts. Engine alone is another couple of grands, but I do the work myself. Dumping all that money in the eight to be worried about overheating, using a Cobb to tune, expecting to run slower than a stock evo?
Phil your project is awesome dont get me wrong, wish I only had my 8 to dump the money in, but I have to choose. The TC upgrade does appeal to me for other reasons than just to be quicker to the intersection. I do feel that my tranny will go out before my engine does and I might be in the same situation than invasion and if that is the case I have really pondered the idea on doing the first 4 port 6 speed auto... but then it would just be easier to swap everything including the engine and ecus-wiring.
Phil again you confuse me.
nope noticed that I mentioned 4 port. I did track my 4 port, twice to be exact. The 6 port auto is better and I am planning on building an rx-8 for track using auto transmission, the car in fact is a lot easier to race and very competitive if setup properly with an auto transmission.
On corners the 4 port or 6 port rx-8 is the same its the same braking and chasis so obviously it is a track car in that sense. The 4 speed auto just plain sucks for anything sporty Phil. It was not designed for anything to do with racing. These models as you know only come with one heat exchanger and overheat very easily, gearing is just bad, you cannot use the power exactly were you need it, and there is a huge rpm gap between gears. The dual radiator deal is easily fixed by installing another one, but gearing is just not right.
on a different subject,
I again personally believe that FI a renesis is not an option but stupid. I believe a complete 13BREW swap is the way to go (working in one with P2000 and single turbo). You know $2500 is peanuts for a well designed turbo system. You mentioned that if the tranny mod is over 2500 its better to turbo. Come on man. You cannot turbo a renesis for that much even doing all the work yourself. Just a decent turbo sets you back over 1500 not including all the electronics to monitor and to properly tune a car. On my seven which is a poormans project I have over 5000 in bolt ons and its still a cheapo setup, using a megasquirt and ebay parts. Engine alone is another couple of grands, but I do the work myself. Dumping all that money in the eight to be worried about overheating, using a Cobb to tune, expecting to run slower than a stock evo?
Phil your project is awesome dont get me wrong, wish I only had my 8 to dump the money in, but I have to choose. The TC upgrade does appeal to me for other reasons than just to be quicker to the intersection. I do feel that my tranny will go out before my engine does and I might be in the same situation than invasion and if that is the case I have really pondered the idea on doing the first 4 port 6 speed auto... but then it would just be easier to swap everything including the engine and ecus-wiring.
Last edited by mperformance; 02-04-2011 at 08:46 PM.
02-04-2011, 08:37 PM
#38
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I think you will see more of a gain in an NA model than expecting to gain something proportionally on a FI setup.
FI a rotary affects a lot the way gearing and launch properties are concerned. You actually have to effectively reduce final drive for drag racing on turbo rotary to get that sweet spot at launch when you run high horsepower engines. I correlate the same to the stall speed unless Im mistaken.
FI a rotary affects a lot the way gearing and launch properties are concerned. You actually have to effectively reduce final drive for drag racing on turbo rotary to get that sweet spot at launch when you run high horsepower engines. I correlate the same to the stall speed unless Im mistaken.
02-04-2011, 09:48 PM
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wow! i think we should calm down we are all on the same team just different mods in mind, yes we do agree that the RX 8 MT or AT is more of a track car than drag, hmmmm well in the US that will be. We also know that to launch the MT all you need is a 6k stall or more and you'll be saying mama miya !! but i also believe that track racing auto-crossing or intersection green light race, that launch is important, careless your N/A or FI. we claim that the car is not a 1/4 mile car but yet we take it to the strip and run in the low 13 to 12 with all our SC and turbo's and im sure with a big smile we post results, at the end of the day we have all drag our 8 from intersection to the next from one light to the other , so if a better TC cn help the $ port is worth looking at.
02-09-2011, 07:34 AM
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02-09-2011, 04:40 PM
#47
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i like the idea of both to be honest it just seems that the both have pro's and con's to me. Turbo higher performance gain lower reliabilty - Torque Converter higher rpm take off but expensive I know i am going to get one just not sure i'm kinda leaning more towards TC because with turbo you also have to have Better exhaust, Acessport, Better fluids and MM tune before turbo can even be installed and i really do not want to blow all my tax money on a turbo setup.....don't bash just my opinon
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