Mods for AT
09-30-2007, 12:34 PM
#51
Destroying Threads
maintainance is pretty much.........everything in an automotive sense, any car, I think we all know that already though, but ofcourse, when it comes to people, I am never right
09-30-2007, 06:09 PM
#52
ey man, honestly, go to youtube, theres a vid of two bone stock 8's, one auto and the other stick, tell me wat you think? the manual is A LOT faster than the auto. ATs might get off the line a tick quicker because of the torque but other than that, nothing. and question, does turning the DSC off do ANYTHING other than let your car go nuts in a turn? i mean i topped out t 125 in 3rd and 4th... gr gr gr
09-30-2007, 06:32 PM
#53
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ok, is this coming from experience or just a thought (i "believe" you also have TCS) and saying its a perfect day on a perfect straight, will that help top speed? but not getting off topic, do you think if i cool everything down without FI, would the car still run smoothly? (i.e. would they get damaged in anyway by running at a constantly lower temperature?) i want to do this sumtime in the near future.
09-30-2007, 07:06 PM
#55
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yay! now i just hope the main things are covered under warranty after the mods. im going to keep sum of the stock stuff at home if they ever need replacing :-P and i think im going to try and turn the dsc and tcs off tomorrow on the way to work if its a nice day, so i can see wats the difference.
09-30-2007, 07:14 PM
#56
'03 Dodge Viper
As said before, FI is your only option to make decent power. However, if you are ABSOLUTELY sure you won't want more power down the road, look into nitrous. Read Charles R. Hill's threads about it, etc. Nitrous is cheaper than FI, but won't net you the same power on a stock Renesis as FI will. I've seen people running 75 shots (in case you didn't know, that means 75hp increase).
Also, if you wanted speed, you got the wrong car with the wrong transmission. No offense, but you'll be wasting a good bit of money.
Also, if you wanted speed, you got the wrong car with the wrong transmission. No offense, but you'll be wasting a good bit of money.
09-30-2007, 08:00 PM
#58
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yuppers. i just want to get that damn governor off. i kno that there are much faster cars out there for the price. i mean for the 20g's i bought the car for, i coulda got a modded integra or eclipse spyder (older body style with the tail lamps that stretch all the way accross, my original plan) but the 8 is something special mang. and yes i was thinkin nitrous, but thats only temporary man
09-30-2007, 08:45 PM
#59
jkFrom our last Dozer "Cruise" I learned my 6spd 8 in manual mode isn't nearly as bad as that vid on youtube portrayed...from a light to light scenario with a good take off that gap is no where near that bad - matter a fact i didn't even really see a gap til about the end of my 3rd gear...and my 8 is completely bone stock.
Taj had a different result ofcourse because of some of his 'enhancements'
haha-
09-30-2007, 09:21 PM
#62
Destroying Threads
that doesn't help anything, and you have a stock intake, you cant "foil" anything
you should foil the underside of that hideous sock tranny though, before the heat gets to ya
you should foil the underside of that hideous sock tranny though, before the heat gets to ya
09-30-2007, 11:30 PM
#64
'03 Dodge Viper
09-30-2007, 11:53 PM
#65
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
Taj, man you post up some of the funniest stuff. To bad I didn't meet you @ SSX.
BTW the below is a lot of common knowledge, and not aimed at any one particular member.
Anyway AT 's + parts = more Hp/Tq. Well we would like to think so!
AS we all know No2 gives the most Hp for the buck. Any form of FI takes some money and more importantly someone to tune that know their head from a hole in the ground. FI + unskilled tune/improper tune = 2-4 k to rebuild/replace the RE.
Two years ago I had the CZ installed. I tuned it and then did a dyno run. I picked up 21hp. I would post the sheet but I never scanned it to make a digital copy. I know someone will call BS on this statement, So what. I know what it did.
I was happy with this easy 21 hp gain. nothing to scoff at for $400.
$19 for each horse. This was with the factory cat. I know i could have gotten more out of it with a hi-flo cat.
intakes. Don't mess with one that draws air in from the engine bay. The charge air is to hot. 107 degree day in Phx equals 197 degree intake temp. Rotaries like cold dense air. the MazdaSpeed/Aem is a nice setup. So is the stock system and it come with the car !
Pullies. yea ok they do "give" back some Hp to use, but has anyone on the forum really proved any worthwhile gains?
Also why would you want to under drive cooling pump? As it is now the current design of our water pump takes more power in the higher rpm (4.5-redline at/mt) band to spin it.
Why? Cavitation.
Don't believe me Talk to Paul and Rick Engman at Mazmart.
Ricks design will still flow at 10k with no Cavitation. No Cavitation = no drag on the motor. This in turn Equals freed up HP.
More power through a AT.
Have to add some sort of cooling. Peroid. I have a DIY on this. Go look in the DIY section. And swap out the mediocre OEM AT fluid. That makes a big difference.
If someone here bought an At as a light to light car.......... Just didn't do their reaserch. However, level10 transmission has a valve body, pump and TQ for close to 4k that will help shave some time off getting to that next red light.
Is the 4k worth it? IDK, not to me, but I don't feel I have to prove myself to anyone on the strip.
Ingition system.
now here is a good topic. The stock system is weak. on NA setups misfires would happen. Some it was caused by faulty coils. Other times the flame would just be blown out. Go read MM'S Twin fire thread. for High HP applications example: MazSport turbo kits, the limiting factor is fuel and spark.
Fuel is easy. higher flowing pump and bigger injectors.
Getting the spark to stay lit, i'm not sure if there is a plug and play kit that works right out of the box.
It already has the air.
AS for the difference between the 4 port and 6 port RE motors.
Go read some of RG's older mini novels about air flow and intake paths. i'm not going to attempt to re-create any of that here. It will take about 1-3 hours of your time. And you will have a better understanding the fundamental differences of the 2 motors.
Gearing
The rear end can be changed out to a 4.77 gear form the stock 4.44 gear.
You will lose some top end speed but will gain some low end Tq.
Cost around 1k.
FI.
Any turbo kit will physically mount on the Rx-8. 4 port or 6 port. Auto or manual.
Now how much do you want to spend? Do forget the supporting telemetry. Boost gauge, AFR gauge, water/oil/tranny temp gauges. No cat or a hi-flow. the sest exhaust is no exhaust. That would work on a track but not on the street. better flowing exhaust is a great idea.
How about CH3OH injection? Methanol for the non-chemistry minded.
Remember we are dealing with a compressed mass of air that is being forced into a 10:1 compression chamber. Any time you compress air, it will heat up. This is true of any gas. Methanol will cool the intake charge, which will help with pre-ignition issues. Pre-ignition, is NOT you friend.
Uber- chargers
most current production models will fit the AT 4 port. just block off the 5th and 6th port runners and it will work. Now they may be a pressure wave that forms within the 2 blocked off port runners that causes a decrease in performance.. I'm not a fluid dynamics guy so I can be wrong about the pressure wave.
And don't forget about tuning. The 8 was tuned for the stock OEM parts.
Start adding aftermarket parts and the tune changes.
most if not all of the answers to a lot of the question in this thread are on this forum somewhere. Knowledge is power. To gain knowledge one must read and use the search button.
BTW the below is a lot of common knowledge, and not aimed at any one particular member.
Anyway AT 's + parts = more Hp/Tq. Well we would like to think so!
AS we all know No2 gives the most Hp for the buck. Any form of FI takes some money and more importantly someone to tune that know their head from a hole in the ground. FI + unskilled tune/improper tune = 2-4 k to rebuild/replace the RE.
Two years ago I had the CZ installed. I tuned it and then did a dyno run. I picked up 21hp. I would post the sheet but I never scanned it to make a digital copy. I know someone will call BS on this statement, So what. I know what it did.
I was happy with this easy 21 hp gain. nothing to scoff at for $400.
$19 for each horse. This was with the factory cat. I know i could have gotten more out of it with a hi-flo cat.
intakes. Don't mess with one that draws air in from the engine bay. The charge air is to hot. 107 degree day in Phx equals 197 degree intake temp. Rotaries like cold dense air. the MazdaSpeed/Aem is a nice setup. So is the stock system and it come with the car !
Pullies. yea ok they do "give" back some Hp to use, but has anyone on the forum really proved any worthwhile gains?
Also why would you want to under drive cooling pump? As it is now the current design of our water pump takes more power in the higher rpm (4.5-redline at/mt) band to spin it.
Why? Cavitation.
Don't believe me Talk to Paul and Rick Engman at Mazmart.
Ricks design will still flow at 10k with no Cavitation. No Cavitation = no drag on the motor. This in turn Equals freed up HP.
More power through a AT.
Have to add some sort of cooling. Peroid. I have a DIY on this. Go look in the DIY section. And swap out the mediocre OEM AT fluid. That makes a big difference.
If someone here bought an At as a light to light car.......... Just didn't do their reaserch. However, level10 transmission has a valve body, pump and TQ for close to 4k that will help shave some time off getting to that next red light.
Is the 4k worth it? IDK, not to me, but I don't feel I have to prove myself to anyone on the strip.
Ingition system.
now here is a good topic. The stock system is weak. on NA setups misfires would happen. Some it was caused by faulty coils. Other times the flame would just be blown out. Go read MM'S Twin fire thread. for High HP applications example: MazSport turbo kits, the limiting factor is fuel and spark.
Fuel is easy. higher flowing pump and bigger injectors.
Getting the spark to stay lit, i'm not sure if there is a plug and play kit that works right out of the box.
It already has the air.
AS for the difference between the 4 port and 6 port RE motors.
Go read some of RG's older mini novels about air flow and intake paths. i'm not going to attempt to re-create any of that here. It will take about 1-3 hours of your time. And you will have a better understanding the fundamental differences of the 2 motors.
Gearing
The rear end can be changed out to a 4.77 gear form the stock 4.44 gear.
You will lose some top end speed but will gain some low end Tq.
Cost around 1k.
FI.
Any turbo kit will physically mount on the Rx-8. 4 port or 6 port. Auto or manual.
Now how much do you want to spend? Do forget the supporting telemetry. Boost gauge, AFR gauge, water/oil/tranny temp gauges. No cat or a hi-flow. the sest exhaust is no exhaust. That would work on a track but not on the street. better flowing exhaust is a great idea.
How about CH3OH injection? Methanol for the non-chemistry minded.
Remember we are dealing with a compressed mass of air that is being forced into a 10:1 compression chamber. Any time you compress air, it will heat up. This is true of any gas. Methanol will cool the intake charge, which will help with pre-ignition issues. Pre-ignition, is NOT you friend.
Uber- chargers
most current production models will fit the AT 4 port. just block off the 5th and 6th port runners and it will work. Now they may be a pressure wave that forms within the 2 blocked off port runners that causes a decrease in performance.. I'm not a fluid dynamics guy so I can be wrong about the pressure wave.
And don't forget about tuning. The 8 was tuned for the stock OEM parts.
Start adding aftermarket parts and the tune changes.
most if not all of the answers to a lot of the question in this thread are on this forum somewhere. Knowledge is power. To gain knowledge one must read and use the search button.
Last edited by 09Factor; 10-01-2007 at 12:58 AM.
10-01-2007, 02:45 AM
#67
yuppers. i just want to get that damn governor off. i kno that there are much faster cars out there for the price. i mean for the 20g's i bought the car for, i coulda got a modded integra or eclipse spyder (older body style with the tail lamps that stretch all the way accross, my original plan) but the 8 is something special mang. and yes i was thinkin nitrous, but thats only temporary man
Me too! The dealership I work at is picking up the Mazda line next month! If I can find a way to delete the gov. I'll post it later.
10-01-2007, 06:58 AM
#68
Hay 09Factor, that's the most I've ever seen you post. Could not agree more. Most of these young men are of the "new generation" of owners that would like instant gratification, instant bolt on power and fire breathing straight line speed. I have noticed a couple among them that show some understanding that engine and drive train mods need to be a means to an end.
Chillboy: Mazda made a few packages that do not include all options. Not knowing what your option package is, I was only trying to point out that most cars with DSC have TCS. If you would have bothered to do any searching for previous postings you would have seen that rasing your RPM shift points and removing the top end speed limiter have already been discussed many times and a solution is already out there.
Chillboy: Mazda made a few packages that do not include all options. Not knowing what your option package is, I was only trying to point out that most cars with DSC have TCS. If you would have bothered to do any searching for previous postings you would have seen that rasing your RPM shift points and removing the top end speed limiter have already been discussed many times and a solution is already out there.
10-01-2007, 09:47 AM
#69
Destroying Threads
yea, only sports AT doesn't come with DSC and TSC(thankgod for that) apart from that, all is good
and phil, you're right, I was like that once, but as you spend more time modding your car, the realization will hit you sooner or later, then its that "oh ****" moment where you realize how much work you HAVE to do to get a realiable and godly car, its not just "bolted on and ready"
the reason why I didn't tell him about nitrous is that I completely forgot about it, however, if you want for the long run and have money+ willing to wait, I suggest you do all your mods, finish up and get FI first, then if you really want MORE hp, strap on a nitrous kit, I think this type of sequence would be the safest and most "retard proof" way of modding your car to be both reliable and fast, get the damn car ready first, we have a slushbox, I don't want you to regret doing your mods 6,7,8 months or even a year later when **** starts breaking down on you, then more **** starts breaking down on you, and finally you have to sell your car
and phil, you're right, I was like that once, but as you spend more time modding your car, the realization will hit you sooner or later, then its that "oh ****" moment where you realize how much work you HAVE to do to get a realiable and godly car, its not just "bolted on and ready"
the reason why I didn't tell him about nitrous is that I completely forgot about it, however, if you want for the long run and have money+ willing to wait, I suggest you do all your mods, finish up and get FI first, then if you really want MORE hp, strap on a nitrous kit, I think this type of sequence would be the safest and most "retard proof" way of modding your car to be both reliable and fast, get the damn car ready first, we have a slushbox, I don't want you to regret doing your mods 6,7,8 months or even a year later when **** starts breaking down on you, then more **** starts breaking down on you, and finally you have to sell your car
10-01-2007, 10:02 AM
#70
yea, only sports AT doesn't come with DSC and TSC(thankgod for that) apart from that, all is good
and phil, you're right, I was like that once, but as you spend more time modding your car, the realization will hit you sooner or later, then its that "oh ****" moment where you realize how much work you HAVE to do to get a realiable and godly car, its not just "bolted on and ready"
the reason why I didn't tell him about nitrous is that I completely forgot about it, however, if you want for the long run and have money+ willing to wait, I suggest you do all your mods, finish up and get FI first, then if you really want MORE hp, strap on a nitrous kit, I think this type of sequence would be the safest and most "retard proof" way of modding your car to be both reliable and fast, get the damn car ready first, we have a slushbox, I don't want you to regret doing your mods 6,7,8 months or even a year later when **** starts breaking down on you, then more **** starts breaking down on you, and finally you have to sell your car
and phil, you're right, I was like that once, but as you spend more time modding your car, the realization will hit you sooner or later, then its that "oh ****" moment where you realize how much work you HAVE to do to get a realiable and godly car, its not just "bolted on and ready"
the reason why I didn't tell him about nitrous is that I completely forgot about it, however, if you want for the long run and have money+ willing to wait, I suggest you do all your mods, finish up and get FI first, then if you really want MORE hp, strap on a nitrous kit, I think this type of sequence would be the safest and most "retard proof" way of modding your car to be both reliable and fast, get the damn car ready first, we have a slushbox, I don't want you to regret doing your mods 6,7,8 months or even a year later when **** starts breaking down on you, then more **** starts breaking down on you, and finally you have to sell your car
10-01-2007, 10:35 AM
#71
Destroying Threads
woops, oh well, right now my brain orientation is that everything and anything that is manufactured by mazda is inherently unstable and sucks, but oh well, thats just me, I'm pretty sure alot of their stuff should work,btw thanks phil, but I got most of ray's thread subscribed
NAWSSS FTW!
10-01-2007, 11:48 AM
#74
Had my share of MT's. Trying to have my cake & eat it too. Maybe one day there might be hope for this site. No MT/AT bashing....
10-01-2007, 12:00 PM
#75
I'll snap his neck.
09Factor,
Interesting comment about the water pump freeing up a bit of power. I THINK I've noticed it revving faster in the upper part of the power band since I've installed the Mazmart water pump. Not a significant difference, but somewhat noticeable. Could be placebo effect, but from what I've read it seems like it makes sense.
Interesting comment about the water pump freeing up a bit of power. I THINK I've noticed it revving faster in the upper part of the power band since I've installed the Mazmart water pump. Not a significant difference, but somewhat noticeable. Could be placebo effect, but from what I've read it seems like it makes sense.