Attention! - AT Owners Must Rev Their Engines to at Least 6,000RPM Every Other Day
01-29-2010, 07:50 PM
#126
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What's the minimum speed to hit 6k+ rpm if you hold it on 2nd gear? Wondering if it's possible to do so without going way over posted speed limit everyday. Can you do this without load, i.e. while the car is sitting idle in P or Neutral after the engine is fully warmed up?
Last edited by nsu; 01-29-2010 at 07:54 PM.
01-30-2010, 08:08 AM
#127
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Do it on an onramp to a highway - 7.5k rpm is 60 mph in 2nd gear, so you wouldn't be breaking any speed limits. Do it with load - doing it while in P or Neutral is useless.
01-30-2010, 05:50 PM
#128
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I just have to ask this question, because it's really bugging me. I know that time and time again we're told that reving the engine in neutral does no good - that there must be a load on the engine. But why is that? If you want to blow the carbon out, why does it blow out better with a load than with no load? Has this been verified - or is it just an urban legend?
01-30-2010, 11:00 PM
#129
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If you had the Accessport, it's a simple thing to check. When you car is standing still, you have little to no airflow going into the engine beyond the suction of your engine. So you move very little air, which doesn't really do anything for "pushing carbon out". If you are driving, there is a LOT more air going into the engine.
Also, several of the ports do not open unless you are under load (which can be seen in the AP configurations).
Also, several of the ports do not open unless you are under load (which can be seen in the AP configurations).
01-31-2010, 12:30 AM
#130
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If you had the Accessport, it's a simple thing to check. When you car is standing still, you have little to no airflow going into the engine beyond the suction of your engine. So you move very little air, which doesn't really do anything for "pushing carbon out". If you are driving, there is a LOT more air going into the engine.
Also, several of the ports do not open unless you are under load (which can be seen in the AP configurations).
Also, several of the ports do not open unless you are under load (which can be seen in the AP configurations).
01-31-2010, 09:27 AM
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That's where our engine management system comes in. It monitors the airflow via the MAF located in the intake. It varies the fuel mixture based on the airflow coming in. Again, this is where the AP would explain a lot, as you would be able to see the changes occuring in realtime.
no worries
02-09-2010, 08:58 PM
#135
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I just got a new RX8 AT a few weeks ago and the owners handbook says don't rev above 7000 during the first 1000km, and don't "race" the engine. Where did you get the 4000 limit from?
Mazda says the engine doesn't need any "breaking in", just don't go crazy. That art of breaking in engines and transmission died off about 30 years ago as far as I know.
Mazda says the engine doesn't need any "breaking in", just don't go crazy. That art of breaking in engines and transmission died off about 30 years ago as far as I know.
02-09-2010, 09:01 PM
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I don't see how this is so, the air is not forced into the engine from outside air movement but sucked in by the action of the rotors.
That's where our engine management system comes in. It monitors the airflow via the MAF located in the intake. It varies the fuel mixture based on the airflow coming in. Again, this is where the AP would explain a lot, as you would be able to see the changes occuring in realtime.
02-10-2010, 09:58 PM
#137
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.......unfortunately my dealer did a lot of the "breaking in" for me! Prior to the pdi, the guys were giving the car some stick, the mechanics had their fun, and then finally the delivery salesman!
Not this again....... will post the procedure later.
As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.
During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.
For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.
After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.
As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.
During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.
For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.
After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.
02-11-2010, 09:32 AM
#138
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Not this again....... will post the procedure later.
As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.
During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.
For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.
After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.
As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.
During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.
For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.
After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.
And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?
02-11-2010, 09:44 PM
#139
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sorry dude, have to shoot you down on this one...maybe you need to check your internet "facts" more carefully.
The first link you are referring to covers "breaking in" of a 13B engine rebuild! The 13B rotary, as found in the defunct RX7, ceased production in 1996. These are not breaking in procedures for a new car, but an engine rebuild, and this engine has been superseded by the far more advanced Renesis motor which is the topic of debate!!
The second link you gave also refers to nothing on running in new cars!
I won't comment on your carbon clearing techniques or the technical explanations for them, other than noting again you are not referring to the new Renesis motor.
Are you running an old RX7??
The first link you are referring to covers "breaking in" of a 13B engine rebuild! The 13B rotary, as found in the defunct RX7, ceased production in 1996. These are not breaking in procedures for a new car, but an engine rebuild, and this engine has been superseded by the far more advanced Renesis motor which is the topic of debate!!
The second link you gave also refers to nothing on running in new cars!
I won't comment on your carbon clearing techniques or the technical explanations for them, other than noting again you are not referring to the new Renesis motor.
Are you running an old RX7??
1) This procedure has nothing to do with a piston engine. Here are some links for you to see where I got this from.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FAQ/breakin.html
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
Learn about the rotary engine before making snide comments about piston engines.
2) To effectively clear carbon out of your engine, you must be under load. This has nothing to do with air, well it may, but it is not why you need to be under load.
Under load at 6K+ RPM, ALL PORTS will be open clearing carbon from all ports.
In Neutral, the secondary ports will NOT be open causing a buildup of carbon over these ports.
Get it now?
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FAQ/breakin.html
http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
Learn about the rotary engine before making snide comments about piston engines.
2) To effectively clear carbon out of your engine, you must be under load. This has nothing to do with air, well it may, but it is not why you need to be under load.
Under load at 6K+ RPM, ALL PORTS will be open clearing carbon from all ports.
In Neutral, the secondary ports will NOT be open causing a buildup of carbon over these ports.
Get it now?
02-11-2010, 09:46 PM
#140
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you are absolutely correct!
load or no load on the engine makes no difference to what the ports are doing!
load or no load on the engine makes no difference to what the ports are doing!
I have two points: first, most of the procedures you mention have to with setting piston rings in place to create a better seal. I was not aware that rotary engines had pistons!
And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?
And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?
02-11-2010, 10:23 PM
#141
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And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?
02-11-2010, 11:41 PM
#142
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technically u are correctly, practically makes no difference!
No. the amount of air going into the engine is controlled by the throttle plate, which is electronically activated via the accelerator pedal. The MAF senses the amount of air induction, and sends a signal to the computer to control the appropriate fuel injection. If you are only revving the engine with no load on it, there is much less air/fuel going through the engine than if it is under load. More throttle = more air/fuel = more explosion = more carbon blow out. Just turning the engine fast with no load does not optimize blow out.
02-12-2010, 12:01 AM
#143
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I did indeed do "research" on how rotaries work, and from what I can tell, there are no valves in a rotary, and the intake and exhaust ports are connected directly to the manifolds. So that means that all the ports are always open, and when the rotor gets to those ports it will find them all open regardless of RPM, or whether or not the car is under load or no load. I also read that in the newer Renesis version the exhaust ports were repositioned to reduce the amount of carbon buildup.
Also, I did look at that rebuild link, and if you look at the date, it was posted in June 2004. The Renesis had not even been out a year, and so how much experience could they have had in rebuilding those engines? And besides, they are referring to the RX-7 engines.
Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.
Also, I did look at that rebuild link, and if you look at the date, it was posted in June 2004. The Renesis had not even been out a year, and so how much experience could they have had in rebuilding those engines? And besides, they are referring to the RX-7 engines.
Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.
02-14-2010, 01:29 AM
#144
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depends on what you mean by open! May we just say they are just holes in the side of the rotor housing? There are no valves opening and closing, just the effect of the rotor blocking them or not? Am I missing something here? RPM doesn't have much to do with it, not as much as engine temperature, which is why highway driving is cleaner running than zoom zoom!!
Anyhow the 13B MSP eliminated the carbon build ups in my opinion.
Anyhow the 13B MSP eliminated the carbon build ups in my opinion.
02-14-2010, 05:33 AM
#145
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I think this one is from Racing Beat's website?
Not this again....... will post the procedure later.
As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.
During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.
For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.
After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.
As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.
During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.
For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.
For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.
After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.
02-14-2010, 04:15 PM
#146
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I noticed that Racing Beat is basically using the same recommended break-in procedure for the RX8's that they used in the June 2004 posting for the old RX7's, saying that not much has changed in the rotaries. Racing Beat may be called "experts", but I question if they know what they're talking about on this issue. The engines are NOT the same! If a Mazda engine needs 2,000 miles to break in, and before "full loads" can be put on the engine, then Mazda deserves to go bankrupt! I don't care how "unique" the Rotaries are, and the "exclusivity" of having such an engine gives us such a great feeling, but I'll be darned, and I bet you would be too, to wait 2,000 miles to run your car to the max!
As someone said, it's our cars to do what we want with, but I think a lot of advice given out is not backed up by any evidence, and is in the same category as "old wives tales".
As someone said, it's our cars to do what we want with, but I think a lot of advice given out is not backed up by any evidence, and is in the same category as "old wives tales".
02-14-2010, 08:47 PM
#147
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I did indeed do "research" on how rotaries work, and from what I can tell, there are no valves in a rotary, and the intake and exhaust ports are connected directly to the manifolds. So that means that all the ports are always open, and when the rotor gets to those ports it will find them all open regardless of RPM, or whether or not the car is under load or no load. I also read that in the newer Renesis version the exhaust ports were repositioned to reduce the amount of carbon buildup.
Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.
Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.
Last edited by PeteInLongBeach; 02-14-2010 at 08:50 PM.
02-14-2010, 10:31 PM
#148
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Did you read and understand the posts about throttle plate and variable induction valves? If the throttle is closed (at idle, under deceleration, etc.) there is almost NO air going into the engine regardless of engine speed and ports exposed. It's called VACUUM. And, if the secondary and auxillery ports are closed, the intake timing and volume are also affected. You need rpm AND load on the motor to completely open up flow in the induction system; you can't do it sitting in the driveway.
02-15-2010, 12:16 AM
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Yes, you are absolutely correct in your assumptions in my opinion and the throttle plate doesn't "work" as some may think.
I'm not a great believer in "blowing out the carbon" as it's a bit of an old wives tale! Prevention of carbon build up is more important in my view, and that means reducing the amount of potential contaminants into the fuel/air mixture and running the engine at optimum temperature. I also noticed some considerable corrosion pitting in various engine combustion chambers, exhaust ports and fuel injectors, (not on the Rotary), in the main caused by various aftermarket fuel and oil additives!
I'm not a great believer in "blowing out the carbon" as it's a bit of an old wives tale! Prevention of carbon build up is more important in my view, and that means reducing the amount of potential contaminants into the fuel/air mixture and running the engine at optimum temperature. I also noticed some considerable corrosion pitting in various engine combustion chambers, exhaust ports and fuel injectors, (not on the Rotary), in the main caused by various aftermarket fuel and oil additives!
Thanks for the reply. I do know about how the throttle plate works, and I may have confused people in a previous post - sorry about that! I am aware that at idle the plate is closed, and so their needs to be another source of air to feed the combustion chamber - the same as in any vehicle. So, my only remaining question is, is it definitely a fact that if you rev the car in neutral to say 6,000 RPM, there is not enough air/fuel mixture to blow out any carbon? The throttle plate will obviously be very open, and I would have to assume tht all of the exhaust ports would be used because they would always be open directly to the exhaust manifold. And, isn't it the exhaust ports that we're concerned about cleaning? Why would there be carbon buildup on the intake ports? I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt, I just really want to know! What is open under "load" that is not open at "no load"? Is there a reference we can be pointed to?
02-15-2010, 05:35 PM
#150
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i have a automatic rx8 and has anyone had a ny elecrical probs?
like my headlights and my gauges start freaking out...
and when it starts blinkin on and off and i hit the gas the car with actually stop.. no matter how fast im going.. and turns back on by itself and im like wtfff!!!
so i have to turn it off and turn it bk on to make it stop.
has anyone had this problem? the battery and alternator tested out good. and i chked all my fuses.. i havent ever touched a wire on the car... so i dont think any of the wires are touching..
any help?
like my headlights and my gauges start freaking out...
and when it starts blinkin on and off and i hit the gas the car with actually stop.. no matter how fast im going.. and turns back on by itself and im like wtfff!!!
so i have to turn it off and turn it bk on to make it stop.
has anyone had this problem? the battery and alternator tested out good. and i chked all my fuses.. i havent ever touched a wire on the car... so i dont think any of the wires are touching..
any help?