Ike

It may be easier but still requires many hours of work and custom fabrication. I'd be shocked if you can find anyone in the US to do it for less than 25k, doing it yourself you could probably do it for about 10k. Either way you had better have another car, or be able to walk everywhere you want to go for a while...

rx8wannahave

^and that is one of my main problems with stuff like this. First, if my 8 is a near brand new car and I just could not give it over to be wacked at....GOD HELP ME if they couldn't build it back the way it was. 2nd....what in the world would I be driving to get to and from work?

Other than that...I would love to turn my 8 over to these guys since it's well known how much I would want such a engine.

drivelikejehu

sacrifices have to be made somewhere...

but this gave me a sweet idea. what if instead of selling them to normal people... i build one into an rx8, then drive that damn thing to mazda headquarters and be like "look ****, the **** is possible, now DO IT! and give me a job..." then we will have 3 rotors out of the factory... again.

hondasr4kids

Ike that is a good point but if some one was going to do this trust me, they will have another car. This is not your weekend motor swap. I think most of us know this.


When i was looking into doing this, I already had the motor from my FD that I was planning putting into it. The engine mounts, turbo manifold, fuel rails with injectors (1000 cc x 3 and 1600cc x 3) with FPR and s/s lines, was going to run me $1800 from Rgonza . The sub frame mods are minimal, just some triming but it doesn't required to be replaced or hacked which is cool because is reversible.

I wish you were on my side of the continent, I be the first one to volunteer.

05whiterx8

i would be interested...not for 15 grand though

rx8wannahave

Yeah I know…if I was single it would be easier for me to do, I hurt only myself but with family (and a new baby) I can’t make such an irresponsible decision that impacts my family in general.

If you never end up doing this, once my 8 is paid for I’ll be knocking at your door.

By the way, how far along are you and what’s your companies’ background/history? Any links? Any previous projects you could give us more information on?

Again…I’d love to be Guinea pig #1, but I just cant’ afford to be. Maybe some of our “well off” members wouldn’t mind turning over their 8’s???

I’m probably dreaming…but wouldn’t it be cool to build a 3-rotor Renesis (change the gearing to 4.11’s or 3.90 instead of 4.44) making 300whp drive to Mazda’s HQ and tell them that you still got 18/24 so they have no excuse on not building a 3-rotor.

I’m such a dreamer…

By the way, where are you located?

hondasr4kids

I can see how this can be done but not sure if it will work. Parts that are needed is another housing, middle plate, new header, rotor and a 20b e-shaft. Then the hard part of making the intake manifold. I haven't looked at the stock one but I know it is plastic. I wonder if it can be slipt it in half the make a custom upper intake manifold (where they all merge at). then ECU the ECU is anothe issue on its own.

Marquis

I think that 15k is a little steep for the returns. However, a little decrease in the price gains a disproportionate amount of interest in a 3-rotor Renesis.

zoom44

he mentioned all the other bits. and of course an intake manifold would be part of the "kit"

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

.....and if you complete it and show it off at Mazda HQ, you should probably drop the "Hey ****...." opening from your presentation - may rub them the wrong way (no pun intended, of course.)

S

hondasr4kids

But I don't see it adding to 12k

rx8wannahave

^yeah, that's what I want to know...how does the custom parts come to 15K in price? If you use most of your current 2-rotor Renesis that should cut cost down significantly.

Red Devil

Not for 15K. Basically, I'd need justification why it's more worthwhile to spend money on more displacement when I can keep my current displacement, spend the same amount of money and produce more power.

I'm curious how you would solve the exhaust port configuration issue with fitting an extra rotor. I'm sure it's possible, but that's a lot of trial and error and custom machining.

edit: I do think it would be very cool and worth considering if it was offered, though.

strokercharged95gt

15k for 300 hp lol... give me 1k and i'll fly to your hometown and punch you in the mouth. That way you'll save 14k and the embarassment for spending 15k for 300 hp.

Aseras

For 15 grand I'd go with either a ls7 conversion to 500 hp NA or do a 3 rotor 20b turbo setup.. If it was closer to 5-6K i'd consider it... You can grab a rebuilt 20b for about 4k. The rest of the cost is labor and custom work.

xeony2k

In short, no I personally would not pay 12K or 15K for parts alone to do this.

Krankor

I'm happy enough with my 8 the way it is, no desire at all to pay that kind of money. I'm not sure I would've even paid an extra 15K to have had it as an original, installed factory option. Maybe $10K.

rx8wannahave

So, as you can tell the 15K price tag is way too high.

A kit for 5-6K seems to be the sweet spot for such a product. Of course, initial price would be higher since you all would try and recoup the R&D.

Can someone tell me then why Acosta charges arm, leg, internal organs, and future children to make a 20B Turbo? They must sell like 1 per decade at that price.

rotarygod

How is cooling going to be upgraded? How are the oil coolers going to be upgraded? What coils, ecu setup, etc are going to be used? It definitely won't pass inspection anymore. Is traction control going to be gone? (I'll say yes to that one) How is oil metering going to be dealt with? What clutch is going to be included? Is the fuel system going to be upgraded? Is there a battery relocation kit included? Is there a new intake included? How is the exhaust going to be upgraded? What oil pump will be used? I could go on...

I haven't even gotten to the actual engine yet. How much money would be tied up with the above items? How much time would be tied up making thse changes and how much does shop time cost per hour? Let's get to the engine. You will need to have a custom cast and machined front intermediate housing which will cost quite a bit up front. You'll either have to acquire a supply of 20B eccentric shafts and counterweights which would get expensive or machine your own which also wouldn't be cheap or easy. Then you'd have to get it all balanced with the Renesis rotors which again takes time and money.

If this could all be pulled off for $15K, it would be a bargain. However I don't see it happening and even if it could, I don't know many that would pay that much for a 300 hp engine. It would be cool though.

rx8wannahave

RG rx8wannahave

lol

RichardK

I thought the greatest issue with the 20B was the E-shaft. Maybe this project could be made financially viable by using alternative materials for the E-shaft, and making them available as a 20B upgrade as well...

drivelikejehu

^alright thats alot but im going to try and answer as many of those as i can. oh yeah i just to clear up anything, 15k is just a very very rough guesstimate, and would be an entire new motor and everything you would need to install it. we would take your core though.

rotarygod: good questions! many of those questions youve asked are the basics of a conventional 20B, so look there for some of them.

as for the intermediate plate: we solved that issue today in the shop and soon we will begin an aluminum mock up to be molded, then the actual plates can be casted, then the faces machined. no big issues there.

intake: this is actually the largest issue in itself, because it contains alot more than just the routing of air into the housings. the hardest part is controlling everything electronically (new ecu), which isnt my department in this project, but my boss says its doable so ill just leave it at that.

shop time: free, its our shop.

clutch: we dont know yet because we dont know how much power its going to put out. obviously more power needs a stronger clutch.

emissions: something we also have thought about, but we need to first build the engine, then actually test it. this is also up to the person who is going to be using it. if your desire is pure dyno numbers, then im sure your going to have no cats and strait through exhaust, in which case you wont pass. if you are looking for more power without rebuilding every six months or staring at a boost guage 24/7, then im sure you are going to leave some sort of cats on, and you still could pass. who knows.

e-shafts: yes these are expensive and are the majority of the 15k tag. supply is not the issue since there are many aftermarket makers of them. and if we REALLY wanted to spend some time, we COULD make these, but thats not our concern right now.

just keep in mind we arent trying to build a track engine here, but a daily driven engine, with more (maybe much more) power, without sacrificing reliability. N/A 20B's are just as reliable as their 2 rotor counter parts. 300hp is a guesstimate, and as you can see the project is already starting to take wind, so we should know soon.

i think i adressed most things, let me know if missed anything.

rx8wannahave: we are located in the DC area. as for work our shop has done: alot of rollercoster and theme park stuff. the best example of what we've made that you may be able to relate to is a motion base. have you ever gone into one of those 3D movies where you and 20 or so people are strapped in like a roller coaster, and the entire things moves around with the movie? 36 of them were designed and made by my boss in the 90's (before my employment here). they sold for a quarter million each, so im not talking about the cheap ones. these things are HUGE, and could push you at over 6 g's of force in the x y or z plane. i can get some pictures if you want.

mike0615

for that money i would do a low boost turbo and add water cooling system so that it can boost for long periods of time with less heat probs. for track use of course.

rotarygod

If you have access to cheap or free materials and machining, you're way ahead of the curve. That's a big expense. I'd definitely like to see it done. It'll take someone with this knowhow and ability to be able to pull it off. If you do successfully cast a Renesis 20B front intermediate housing, I'll buy one off of you. I'm going to throw a Renesis into my RX-7 but a 3 rotor would be nice.

1 thing: Please, whatever you do, do not siamese the exhaust ports!!! Avoid doing this at all costs!!!

Renesis_8

Sorry for reposting this from the other thread, just thought its the same topic, so why not , copy and pasting:


What about a 4 port per rotor renesis, 2 rotor renesis is 3 ports per rotor

2 end plates would be stock, and the 2 middle plates you'd fab up and have 4 circular intake holes in it and 1 exhaust port, since you are machineing so many parts, you might as well create a new 3-rotor-renesis with 12 ports that can rev even higher!, instead of using what mazda have, why not improve on its design, dont know if more port # is better tho


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