shaunv74

So...MazdaManiac do you have any opinions or insight on the BorgWarner unit in the new 911 Turbo? Do you think it would be a potential mate for the RX-8? Do you know anyone that would have connections to get a hold of one and install it? I tried contacting them through there website and am still waiting to hear back from the cyberspace void...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No we don't!

Rotarygod was new here, once. Do you think Fred ever offered up something like that without asessing the need first?

Well, having only had one (bad) experience with a VATN, I can't really comment.
It would be nice to over-size on the turbo a bit and still have the low-end spool.
Eventually, these things will come to market. I just can't say that they are really needed in our application since the traditional turbos work so well.

toxin440

Alright -- after a bit of searching and thinking... here we are sitting over 1/2 way thru 2006 and the only FI Kit still readily available is the Greddy. I know PTP is taking desposits, but thats not the same.

I just remember earlier in the year everyone promising its coming really soon... the three I'm eyeballing is

PTPs Turbo
Petit's Supercharger
Axial Flow Supercharger

as I see it still nothing is going on for these units, is this one of those things that just keeps getting pushed back over and over?

truemagellen

don't forget Hymees

toxin440

i havent forgotten about Hymee's however in an email convo I had with him, his work looks fabulous and I would love to have a system like his in my car, but at the price of around $10,000 dollars thats just too much for me.

So the question is still posed, here we are 1/2 way thru 2006 and still only have Greddy's kit for purchase, what gives?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Saying the price like that is a little misrepresentative. That is more like the price with a MoTeC, as we are using in development. But ultimately there are other options, including re-flashing the factory ECU. And since we are working on our own product for that, I can work a cost advantage into the S/C kit by "heavily discounting" the tune up "reflash" when purchased together. Take off the cost of the MoTeC and you might be nearer the ballpark. But it is still too early. Much work to do. But worth the wait if you want the instant boost, instant torque that only a positive displacement supercharger can provide, and the Renesis lacks.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Moostafa29

Speed Force Racing's kit has been out for quite some time now too. If you have the money, that would probably be a great option.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Hymee , what do you see as the advantages of the twin screw vs the cetrifugal "Pro charger" that Rotormaster is using ?
I love the simplicity of their setup but cannot see the justification for the AU$12,000 price tag .

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Because, it is common knowledge that turbos take forever to get into boost. The lag is incredible. There is nothing worse than having to wait more than .8 of a second to go from zero to 8 PSI. What fun is it if you can't outrun your fuel?



Oh my! What happened? Full boost all the way to redline? Full boost before I even got the throttle all the way down (wheel spin can be quite annoying).

I think I'd better switch to a belt-driven solution before I waste another drop of fuel.

BTW - that is with the boost turned down - I normally run 70kPa.
Also note, that is 3rd gear - 8 seconds from 3500 to 8800. You do the math.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Hi MM ,
assuming you were answering my ?
The Procharger is a belt driven centrifugal supercharger - and people who have driven confirm there is no lag whatsoever. Just linear power all the way to the redline.
I'm just guessing but I suspect the twin screw will offer more boost at lower revs than the centrifugal ?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, I was heckling Hymee (and others on that boat).


Any positive displacement solution will be better than a centrifugal (if directly linked to engine RPM as belt driven solutions are). A centrifugal will give you nothing at the low end.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - he was answering your question in a sarcastic sort of way, but trying to put the turbo spin on it. BTW - I have driven the Mazfix Turboed RX-8. I know a little about lag.

The graphs posted for the RM kit show it makes linear boost. Around 8PSI at full RPM. (Or thereabouts. 1/2 the PRM, and the boost halves. Halve the RPM and the boost 1/2 again. So at 2000 RPM, you get about 2 PSI.

The twin screw demonstrated constant boost. As soon as the throttle was opened, full boost came on, and held through the rev range. I think the video I posted was about 12 or 13 PSI from all the way through.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

mm- have you checked out the design of the procharger ? While i believe you are right that centrifugals in general are not so good low down - this one has a unique design that may substantially improve that characteristic.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

come on Hymee - you must have dynoed it - how about a peak

toxin440

I gotcha Hymee -- if its going to be less then 10G's i guess I can put your name back on my list heh

The idea of a supercharger for the RX8 is appealing, for what it seem is the instant boost on tap and much less heat.

At this point all I will say the first person that can get me to 300 horses *at the wheels* reliably and safely will have my huge chunk of money. I wouldnt have a problem spending $4000-5000 for the hardware, $1000 for a GOOD install, and a little more for a professional tune.

sstricker

^ +1

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

MM - now that I've had a chance to figure out what all those lines mean - gotta say thats very impressive .
So - how did you eliminate lag ?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Probably should break out the checkbook...

How do you figure "much less heat"? I'll let you believe "instant boost" because that seems to be the sales pitch (though it is also irrelevant).

It eliminates itself when you have a properly sized turbo and good tuning.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

You feel the instant boost when you drive it. It is easy power, like having a much larger displacement motor, but only when you want it. It isn't marketing, it is fact.

So is the implication then that the turbo RX-8 I drove then either had the wrong sized turbo, or the wrong tune up (or both)? I was hoping a 6.99 @ 201.5 MPH man would know better

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

First of all, I know many tuners with fast cars in their stables that I wouldn't let touch my TV remote, let alone my car. If you throw enough ****, some will stick.

Two, you are confusing the goals. Which do you want - a high power vehicle that is drivable or one that is not?
There are no 11-second <2 liter street cars. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
(I know I am going to regret saying this because everybody and their uncle is going to attack me without any evidence to substanciate their refutations.)
Every car that gets there on a small-displacement motor does so at the cost of creature comfort (which includes drivability). If you want to brag about a big HP number, then you get what you deserve.

My goals are always tempered by reality - I want my car to have the same (or better) manners than it had when it was new.
That said, yes - I think your "201.5 MPH" is living in the "20 minutes ago" as far as tuning tech goes. Have him ring me up sometime so we can find out what is wrong.

None of my turbo cars have had lag. None of them. There is always a time period between when you depress the throttle and when you gt your power - that occurs in a naturally aspirated vehicle, also. It should never be more than 400 to 600 milliseconds. Its called RPM.

As turbo technology progresses, we are able to spin bigger and bigger compressors without penalty. Unfortunately, the tuning market is almost completely dominated by folks that believe the glossy magazines whilst simultaneously thinking the world is still mechanically carburetted.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

The wink in my post means a few things... But I can't go there.

Cheers,
Hymee.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Please do go there - nobody buys into the false drama, anyway.
Otherwise, don't bother.

One of the things, I think, that sets my contributions apart from most others is that I don't pull punches and I don't try to project a sense of mystery.
Do what you do and report on it. Find out what you can and talk about it.
Otherwise, STFU. (Not you, particularly, Hymee. Just in general )

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad the STFU is not for me. However, it is not my "secret" to tell, hence that little bit of mystique.

But please don't try to project the idea I don't bring info to the table. I'm very open, and I bring lots of info and results here. I try to be pretty meticulous about it, as well as present a fair opinion.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Japan8

I think MM was more refering to past threads on porting by a certain member who made huge claims and shared nothing. Wouldn't even take engines/cars at his shop because he claimed he was too busy and then later sold the shop.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Cool... It is all good. I'm not going to get all manic over it

Cheers,
Hymee.