Sapphonica

We're starting to see some big numbers now, which is great news!

For us poor unfortunate folks here in California, where the highest regular pump octane is 91, it doesn't seem likely we'll break the 300 WHP barrier without race gas.

It would be useful to find out what octane gas was used to get these dyno numbers so we can make more accurate comparisons of turbos, EMS, fuel mods, etc.

Fanman

Wasn't it Moostafa who had a similar setup to the person above (who got 310 whp) but he ran about 275 whp. Said he had to alter the settings/timing to where even though it was 91 in Cali., it runs like 89 everywhere else.

rkostolni

You an always add octane booster. Toluene is suppose to be pretty effective at raising the octane rating. I believe Jeff mentioned he would be stocking a drum of it at his house to use in his 8. Not sure if he was serious though.

Moostafa29

The people you see with these high numbers are more than likely using 93-94 octane gas. Just to make a comparison, like fanman said, the 91 we see here in CA is comparable to 89 in other states. That being said, unless you want to get some 100 octane gas and just tune for bragging rights, you more than likely won't break 300whp here in CA. Also I'd recommend getting a true 3in exhaust and race pipe. That seems to make the biggest difference so far.

MadDog

^Yeah! I'm getting fitted for a custom 3" system today. Hopefully installed in a week or less.

Moostafa29

Nice. I'll have my TurboXS sometime next week, and hopefully install it next weekend. I am trying to decide whether I want to pay to get it tuned again, or buy the wideband adapter for the interceptor and fine tune it myself.

rkostolni

I thought about tuning it myself, but what I decided is, I've spent way to much money on parts to get suboptimal performance out of them. I want to get every last HP my parts can provide. It would be very difficult to properly wring things out without a dyno.

Hybrid-RX8

I did my 310 whp and 252 tq.. on 94 octane fuel... no fuel system upgrades... and the Interceptor EMS... tuned by Scott the Man

I notice everyone keeps shooting for big HP numbers...... but a big difference I feel with the car speed wise that isn't being noted is the huge jump in tq down low.......which I couldn't hit with the emanage because it does not control the variable intake.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yes it can, but it isn't the secret to big numbers.
The OEM intake valving is satisfactory for this application. It is the fueling (and its relationship to the valving) that is suspect.

MadDog

This is the first time I've hear that Scott is controlling one of the intake runners. But, I seriously doubt that has anything to do with making more power.

I did a dyno test a while back (posted results on the forum) that showed that the tertiary runners have minimal effect on power production under FI. Keeping them closed kept boost pressure up, but at the expense of a few ponies. The biggest advantage to keeping them closed was the absence of that damn lean spike when all the fresh, un-fueled air hits the combustion chambers.

I mean, the whole system was designed for acoustic resonance - which goes out the window with FI. I'm skeptical that additional control of either the secondary or tertiary runners would do much for a FI 8. I want to know more about exactly how Scott controls them and see some data backing it up. I'm all for making more power, but I'm not going to spend the dinero for things toys that don't add value.

MD

rkostolni

He also controls the VDI. I suspect this is the system that he's refering to.

Hybrid-RX8

thanks for the correct rkostolni...

Sapphonica

For a turbo 8, I don't know that anyone has tested opening the tertiary runners/ports at lower rpms than stock. Ditto for the secondaries.

Might make a positive difference, maybe not...it would be interesting to test it.

evilbada1

Would alcohol/methanol injection work on rotary? If so, someone needs to develop this!
By running alcohol, you will be able to turn up boost using pump gas.

Moostafa29

There are a few that are against this, but for $250, I plan on doing this soon. I don't plan on tuning around it, but it will allow me to get a few extra ponies.

Hybrid-RX8

I already have the 150psi single nozzle setup installed from Coolingmist. I installed it unfortunately right after the dyno... I'm not going with methanol injection..only water for cooling


Hopefully sometime in the near future i'll jump back on the dyno and see if it makes a diff

Moostafa29

How difficult was the install? I'll probably pick up a kit early summer.

adrian-1

I'd like to see those results when you get them. I've heard it increases your peak hp and keeps it from detonating.

Hybrid-RX8

Install wasn't too difficult........ I routed the tank to the trunk to keep cool and the motor just behind my front bumper.

It will not help with detonation unless you do methanol (alcohol mixed with water) injection. In essence, doing methanol injection will increase the octane and help prevent detonation. It is a band aid solution in that sense if your using it for that. Injecting water alone will only cool the intake charge.

MadDog

cooling the intake charge DOES help prevent detonation. That's what the methanol does, too. Methanol has a higher heat of vaporization, meaning that it can cool the charge more effectively than the water alone.

Hybrid-RX8

From my understanding ... the addition of methanol (alcohol) is different from the addition of water because when combined with gas it tends to increase the octane rating....hence reducing any chances for detonation.

This is not the case with water.

coolingmist

actually no. Methanol does burn, but it burns far cooler than pump gas which greatly reduces your chance of detonation. Compared to water, water evaporates (does not burn), this slow evaporation soaks up the heat leading to cold combustion temps. Choosing between water and methanol I would prefer water, however a 50/50 Mix of water/meth tends to work well in alot of vehicles.

Jason is running a group buy (going to end soon) at the rx7store.net on our new digital programable methanol/water injection controller. Its also just been installed on an RX-8 with 380 RWHP that is detonating. The install should be finished this week shortly and they will see how well the system stops the detonation and any power gains on a motor that is obviously pretty well stressed at this point.

rkostolni

Methanol or water injection is only to your benefit though if you would be detonating without it. If you can put down X hp without injecting anything, you will loose hp by adding it. You will only gain hp if you are operating in an area where you would otherwise be experiencing detonation. Risky in my opinion. I would much rather spray something on the intercooler to increase its efficiency, rather than into the air stream.

coolingmist

That is absolutely un true. We have countless cars, SRT's, EVO's, 350Z Turbos, DSMs, etc that all gain HP just from putting the kit on. We have 3 EVOS that gained over 80 HP with our kit. While people are entited to an opinion you are speaking as if you are experienced in the subject. We sell 1000's of cars and have real conversations with people and shops who have installed our kits. And its not just our kits, water/methanol injection works. I should point out, that every car is not going to gain power from just bolt on, but most do.

spraying "ON" to an intercooler is almost useless.

MadDog

^ can you explain the science behind the assertion that adding water to the combustion cycle will add HP? IF that's true, I'm going to start adding a pint of water to my gas tank when I fill-up.