therm8

from a different site:

Rotary engines are fairly heavy for their size, and the LS1 is fairly light being made mostly of aluminum and being OHV.

cretinx

You guys need to do your homework on RX7club.com

The LS1 weighs less than the 13b . . . why? ALUMINUM
The LS1 makes 525 hp with a cam and head package

RX-7s powered by LS1s handle EXACTLY THE SAME as when powered by the 13b - the owners cannot tell the difference
Why? Again, because the engine is lighter, so even though its not quite as far back and compact as a rotary, the lessened weight makes up for the weight distribution.

LS1s have an INSANE torque curve
LS1s are typically installed in the Datsun Z cars and RX-7s with a Tremec T-56 transmission that can take all the abuse you can throw at it

The LS1 is not your typical American shitbox motor - its a Chevy shortblock built with performance in mind, hence, costs are not typically cut.

You can also get an LS2 (6.0L v 5.7L, more power, heavier), an LS6 from the Z06 (more expensive but lighter, an LS1 with heads/cams makes way more power though) and maybe if you have a ton of money an 427 CID (7.0 LITERS!) LS7 from the new Z06

Again, DO YOUR RESEARCH before making broad statements that are wrong.

cretinx

oh, btw, RX-7s running LS1s typically dip into the high 10s with the same or better handling as 13b equipped RX-7s

rotarygod

An LS1 isn't a rotary and doesn't come in the RX-8. Not too much more to say than that. It wasn't intended for this car anymore than a rotary was intended for the C6 Corvette. Let's keep it that way. Although a supercharged 3 rotor in a C6 would actually make me want one of those cars. God forbid that should happen. The LS series engines are great. Can't argue with that. They aren't rotaries though and aren't unique. The heart and soul of this car that make is so special would be gone without a rotary. Who cares about ultimate power? A rotary is a rotary. That's they way they should stay.

StealthFox

bah ultimate power in the rotorheads mind is a t88'd ported 20b

rotarygod

If I wanted as much power as I could possibly get, I'd go buy a surplus military jet engine off of eBay and strap it to my roof.

StealthFox

dang you RG, now ya got me thinkin

Red Devil

A lot of cast iron in the 13B's...although cost prohibitive, going to AL housings, http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda3.htm can reduce the weight and help to get you back on par. As for the power, that's another story.

cretinx

to me LS1/RX-7 is the best of both worlds. You get the awesome handling, keep the perfect weight distribution, and get god's own personal torque curve.

I've seen it in person a few times - the engine looks like it belongs in there. It fits perfectly.

Luftwaffle

PX-7. :p

Psylence

Bet the LS engined cars have superior fuel economy to the 13B as well...

mike1324a

Exactly what i was saying. Dear God why would you take away what makes it so special!?!? It destroys the cars magic!

Dragonrider

Now that the topic has turned to installing basically a Corvette engine, have I missed the point why we have a Mazda RX car?



There are a lot of cars out there that are great. If I wanted a Corvette I would get a Corvette.



I thought the reason we all have a rotary powered car is because it is rotary powered.



I know this may be rhetorical, but if you don't want a rotary powered car, why purchase one to begin with.



Off the shelf the RX8 is a high performance road car not a dragster. Mussel cars are basically straight line dragsters not mussel road cars.



But back to the point. I got the RX8 because it has a rotary engine. If I wanted a car with a big piston engine I would get a Corvette, or better yet, I would drive my Mercedes SL600 with a V-12. Now that is a rocket sled if there ever was one right from the factory. The SL 600 is a real autobahn car. However, I sure would not use it on the track. While a beautiful car, it is not unique.



The RX8 to be is not only a beautiful car, but a car one can customize to really make it personal. With the rotary engine, the RX8 like the RX7 is unique, and with all the after market modifications available and more to come, the RX8 is car one can really personalize.



If we take out the rotary engine, it will no longer be unique. It will just another piston driven mussel car, nothing at all special.



I really feel sorry for those who don’t seem to appreciate how special and unique a rotary powered car is.



I realize that the fact that a rotary engine being unique presents a challenge to boost its power curve for the straight line, but that too makes it special.



If all everyone does when faced with the new and the unique retreat to the familiar, little to no progress will be achieved.



I guess that is why I enjoy watching the Pro Formula Mazda Star races. These cars are rotary powered. Basically the RX8 without the weight.



I guess for those who can only handle the car in a straight line, and measure cars mussel only on Dynos, that it is frustrating trying to compare the ability of a road car to a dragster. Well, if all you want is a straight line ¼ car, and are not interested in being unique, like RG said, strap and jet engine to you car and go for it. By the way, have seen a jet engine power dragster. Don’t think it would handle the road track real well, but boy does it run the ¼ quick.

therm8

But that's just it, an LS1 equipped FD, maintains the same handling characteristics as a 13b-rew equipped FD. You shift the weight forward approximately 1%. The rotary engine doesn't have the same "magic" for everyone. If your going to swap out the stock engine, you might as well consider the LS1. It's light, very strong, extremely reliable, and has one of the most beautiful torque curves available from a factory engine. It's a hell of a lot easier to tune also. But if you're a rotary nut, I guess it's not for you.

And btw, 98+ LS1 equipped F-body's are very strong on most road courses. The super tight ones will obviously give it a disadvantage, as it is a 3300-3400 pound car, stock. But give it a little wider turns, and one long straight.... They're not just for the drag strip.

gh0st

hahaha.. this thread has taken quite a few turns since the last time i was here. i pwersonally bought the 8 because ive always wanted a rotary. now that ive got one i would never think about puting anything else into. for me its not about max power or torque. its about the whole pakage and how well everything flows together.
but if i had unlimited bank roll.... sure, id have a ls1 powered fd but it would be after i already have my 13b single snail fd and my 20b fd. if only i had an unlimited bank roll...

denward

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

they were also at our monthly TexasRxs meeting laptop in tow with dynos and everything, just the mere fact that thing drove up to the meeting is a pretty major accomplishment and you could tell from looking under the hood those guys have put some serious hours in, there's also Petit Racing's suercharger and several other options lingering out there so it will only be a matter of time before we see the renesis putting out close to 400 or whatever

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

oh geesh, another one of these guys, I have respect for the LS1 and all that, but it defeats the purpose of owning an RX when you slap a generic piston pwoered motor in it, sure it gets better mileage and is easier to tune blah blah blah, so does a frickin' Honda motor, does that make it right to swap it for a v-tec too? honestly, this is a tired, dead topic, they're called "RX" for a reason.

therm8

oh geesh another one of these guys... :p

I was just saying that not everyone thinks like you. And V-tec is nothing special :D

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

neither is an LS1 :D

Glyphon

not that its been done, but how much different would this be on an 8? the renesis is already further back and lower in the car than the 13b-rew was in the fd, so it would only stand to reason that dropping an ls1 in an 8 would have a more pronounced effect to its handling.

just speculation.

funny thing is, there is a thread at the 7club talking about swapping a 13b-rew for a renesis.

Dragonrider

You have made my point. Why on earth did you get a rotary powered car in the first place. You want a piston power car great. But why then wast the money on a car with a rotary engine.

Can you explain that one?

BaronVonBigmeat

Why do you assume he wanted a rotary powered car to begin with? Maybe the engine wasn't a factor, and he wanted a slick, lightweight* coupe and there wasn't much else in the price range. G35 is an expensive fat pig, GTO is a dull fat pig, 350Z and S2000 are 2-doors, Mustang is a trucklike retro-sled, the Eclipse is a FWD joke, etc. You can say "just get a corvette"--which is a valid point, but you could say the same for the guy spending $7k+ for a turbo setup done really right. And don't dismiss a car's handling just because it has a "big" V8, the C6 is pretty capable.


*lightweight, as far as modern coupes go

Dragonrider

Interesting, you abruptly shifted from type of power plant to modifying the Rotary. Everyone wants to boost the engine they have if they are into performance, whether piston or rotary. Boost is one thing, replacing a perfectly good engine is another issue altogether.



The point of having a car that can be modified based on its original platform is to tailor it so that it is unique. Whether one gets a Corvette and installs a turbo or gets the RX and installs a turbo, the point is making the base platform what you want not turning the base platform of a Mazda RX car to a Corvette or a Corvette to and Mazda RX.



I guess my question is why not start with a platform you want to build on that rather that invest the money in one platform and completely change it to the neighbors platform.



With that logic, the grass is always greener on the other platform.



I suppose I am witnessing the ultimate in indecision.



Oh yes, since there is a reference to the term Rotor head. I guess that would be accurate to describe those who got the RX8 mainly because it has a rotary engine.



I am just bit amused at the concept of investing between 26K to 40K to get an RX8 and then several thousand more to convert it to another platform altogether that already exists.



Like I said, it is the grass is greener syndrome that we are witnessing. Interesting.



So you see, you still have not answered the question. Just curious

BaronVonBigmeat

That's the point...to you. Not necessarily to someone else. Other people couldn't care less, they just care about dollars per performance numbers.

There's one glaring problem with your argument though, it's based on the assumption that the platform you really want exists in the first place. If you want a slick, practical, hot-looking, good handling, lightweight coupe that makes astonishing power from a sweet sounding V8 and yet gets 19/28 MPG with rock-solid reliability for $40k or less...umm well, you're out of luck. It simply doesn't exist.

The Mustang and GTO come closest I guess, but their mediocre suspensions, bloated weight and fuddy-duddy styling will need much more work to fix than a motor swap in an RX-8.

therm8

I never said I wanted an LS1 in my car. I said, if you're considering an engine swap, you might as well consider the LS1. I'm perfectly happy with my rotary engine. And though, I of course would like more power, I will buy a supercharger when the right one becomes available, and wouldn't even consider swapping in a 13b-rew, much less a piston engine.