Razz1

Note the graph says less than 320HP !

mike1324a

Its not a bad power increase. I think anyway. That is the most **** poor/ misleading graph. But the bottom of the page it says something about stage 2!?! Hopefully over 300whp.

rotarygod

For as much more money as a Z06 is it sure as hell better be faster than an RX-8! Why do people always want to make worthless ridiculous comparisons between cars? This is like saying my Civic is slower than an RX-8 so Honda needs to step up their game to be competitive. They aren't even in the same class. If you like the Z-06 that much, go buy one. Mazda has a niche market with the RX-8. They don't have to do crap. My car will never be as fast as an F-16. I'm not about to trade up.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

centrifugal superchargers suck

Fanman

hmm let me see :

Mazda RX8 = $30,000-$35000
Corvette Z06 = $65000-$70000

Yeah, that's a good comparison.

If you want more hp then swap the Greddy for the upcoming PTP unit. 350+ rwhp.

guy321

RM is only promising 270 - 280 RWHP... the 740 is MAX for the BLOWER.. not on our car.. That's what the article/chart says. It's just a tiny bit misleading.

brillo

Save a few extreme circumstances (and I'm talking Abel's drag car here), there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to upgrade the stock apex seals to ceramic or any larger type of seal.

One of the things we learned at sevenstock, and it was a theme across the board from various shops and rotary experts, (Mazdatrix, Rob Goldman, Rick Engman) is that the stock apex seals are plenty strong.

Mazda has invested 30+ years and God knows how much money in getting the apex seals right. I bet more development $$$ has gone into the apex seals than all other projects combined.

The problem with people popping them is not the seals, its the TUNING. There are people pushing 500+ WHP through stock seals and having no issues what so ever. The key is a properly tuned and managed engine.

Several aftermarket FI folks have even commented that the Renesis is even more durable. Pettit drove around with their car detonating due to a broken air-to-water intercooler pump and didn't blow the engine.

don't waste money trying to upgrade your seals. Take the $2,000+ and get a good ECU and get it properly dyno tuned.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Why not? It has an Axial Flow compressor.
Sure wish I could do it. I'd give all my cars and my first born male child. Hell, you can have the second one too.

rotarygod

It's not so much a matter of wants but a matter of what I can afford. Pretty sure the trade in value on my car(s) wouldn't put much of a dent in the price of an F-16.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

No first borns to offer?

Hey where do I get these new smilies so I can use them in Emails?

Greddyturbo1

Rotarygod,
1.Why do people make worthless ridiculous comparisons
I didnt' make these comparisons, Mazda did when they said this was a true sports car. Should we compare the RX8 to civics then..

2. So I guess your thinking is then, the 350z is not in the corvette's league or can't be competitive with the corvette...

3. They don't have to do crap, well then Mazda shouldn't say it's a true sports car then...

4. Your blowing this all out of proportion.. Bad day hey..

hondasr4kids

Mazda says that about every car pretty much. Not in those words but close enough.

hondasr4kids

Bigger turbo will delivery more air at the same PSI than a small one. That's how you get more CFM without adding more pressure. Then the problem is lag.

rkostolni

I disagree. A bigger turbo will deliver a greater mass of oxygen because it will be operating in a more efficient area. But the volume (or cfm) will be the same for the same psi.

Sephiroth

Who the hell is comparing the RX-8 or the Z to a Z06!?! The new Z06 is a super high performance car bordering on supercar performance. The Z or RX-8 is not in the same league as any new vette period.

AFAIC the RX-8 is NOT a true sports car, more like a sport sedan. The Z coupe is NOT a true sports car either, its a sport coupe, i don't know what to classify the vert. The miata is, the S2k is, Boxster is, and it prety much ends right there. IMO the Z06 is NOT a true sports car, its a beast!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Hehehehe. Funny you say that, as they do sound like vacuum cleaners, from my first hand experience.

But good on them, they have published a big number, and people like that.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Fanman

1A. You might as well compare the RX8 to a Civic LX. Your comparison with a Corvette is about as ridiculous. You are comparing a $30,000 car to a $70,000 car, and wondering why it is not as fast. Why don't you compare a $15,000 car with a $30,000 car it makes as much sense. An RX8 is a "true" sports car. What is your definition of a sports car ? To many it is an RSX Type S or Civic Si, to some others it is Rx8, 350Z, or S2000, or a Mustang GT, or a Pontiac GTO, etc. If you definition of a "true" sports car is a Z06 and anything underneath that is not a true sportscars then the RX8 might as well get in line behind the other 99.5% of other cars. The Z06 for speed performance/bang for the buck is the top of the mountain, so nothing is going to compare to it. If you bought your RX8 thinking that you were going to compete with Corvettes & get a $20,000 discount then we pretty much know who the fool was.

2A. The 350Z stock to stock will get absolutely massacred by a stock Corvette, let alone a Z06...so yes, you can't compare the 2. Anymore than you can compare an RX8 to a Corvette. To get equal performance would involve a hell of a lot more than simply strapping on a turbo or SC kit.

Fanman

I agree with you about the tuning & fuel delivery. When I made that statement it was when people were quoting the 725 hp figure for this supercharger. At that hp level...I would say that you need major engine strengthening.

hondasr4kids

There is not I disagree or agree, it just how it works. The only way you are going to deliver more oxygen, is if you add a oxygen tank. The compressor gets it's air or Oxygen from the ambient air, so explain how the oxygen level will increase? The bigger the compressor the more CFM it will move even at the same psi.

Let me give you an example using a FD.
a FD with the stock turbo running at 15 psi will make about 350whp with all the bolts on mods and ECU.

take the same FD and put a GT40R run it at 15psi and you will see 400whp.

brillo

I'll give you that, at 725WHP, your going to need some better seals. And about $20K worth of other upgrades.

Roaddemon

That's how I see it too, but that's old fashion thinking. Nowadays all the above mentioned cars are all considered sportscars by the magazine professionals. The Z06 is in a league all by itself but they call it a sportscar too. Seems alot depends on size style and wieght distribution when classifying these as sportscars.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

OK, you have this hole to fill called an engine. It is just so big inside. So you get a compressor that will flow so much air at so much psi.
Now I go out and get a bigger one that flows even more air at a lower psi. Mine has more efficiency then yours or anyone elses. Mine is made by Mother Nature. It's called ambiant pressure. It has all the CFM in all the World. If you can get more CFM in without raising pressure then mine will take all the air in and around the world in. It will take everything with it including you into the engine.

GET IT?


And a Z06 will run within a few tics of a 575 Ferrari. Do we compare the 8 to those next?

Sephiroth

Thanks for the explanation.

rkostolni

CFM is just a measure of volume of air, it does not indicate the actual mass of air molecules in that volume.

The reason you will get more oxygen into the engine with a larger turbo is because at higher boost levels the larger turbo will be operating at a higher efficiency than a smaller turbo. So it will heat the air less and the result will be more dense air, hence more oxygen molecules per cubic foot.

PV-nRT, if you heat a gas (air) up, and keep its pressure the same the volume will increase, -> It becomes less dense. So 1 cu ft. box of air sealed up with the air at 100 degrees has less oxygen in it then then a 1 cu. ft. box that was sealed up at 50 degrees.

Look at a compressor map for a big turbo and a small turbo, you will see that once the boost/cfm passes its sweet spot, the efficiency will go down and heat will go up. With a big turbo that sweet spot is located at higher boost and cfm levels.

rkostolni

The best comparison I can make is its equivalent to a wire with a voltage applied to it. The wire is the engine, it has a certain resistance to current, much like the engine has a resistance to air flow. For a certain voltage (psi), a certain specified current (AIR) will flow determined by I=V/R. In order to move more current (air), you have to increase the force pushing it, or (psi).

So for a given engine, turbo A capable of flowing more cfm than turbo B will not necessarily do so, even though it could, without the turbo applying additional force to the air.

But the advantage of the larger turbo is that it can apply the greater force (PSI) without heating up the air as much.

So a GT30 will flow the same CFM as the T618Z on the Renesis at 10psi, because the Renesis resistance to flow is unchanged, the force applied by the turbo to move the air is the same (10psi). But, the GT30, will have a greater Mass flow rate because it is more efficient at that point. So it will heat the air less -> More oxygen ->More HP.

2 Notes:
1. The bigger turbo will flow more cfm than a smaller turbo at the same psi, if the smaller turbo has reached its surge limit.
2. The smaller turbo will have an efficiency advantage at lower boost/CFM levels though. So the larger turbo is not necessarily better, it just depends what your boost and cfm requirements are.