rx8wannahave

^who are you fighting? LOL

It's a joke man, I'm just trying to say that the psi is so low it can be said it's just a spiced NA. I'm well aware of the extensive work putting a Turbo on a car takes and the importance of tunning.

Relax, it's more of a joke (hence the LOL)....geezzz

Red Devil

I'm not trying to fight or pick on you, or anyone else for that matter.

I can tell you from my personal experience in the past with blown engines that it was my lack of understanding that lead to my problems. I just don't want anyone reading these posts to take any kind of forced induction lightly and blow their engine and then come on here saying "it was only 5psi, how could this have happened?"

rx8wannahave

^understood...fair enough.

Here is my disclaimer, to everyone...that was a joke. When you play with Turbo's you better know what your doing if you don't want to blow your engine.

That's why turbo newbs like me...wouldn't touch a thing after someone like Scott (Mazsport) perfected the turbo aplication in my car.

Be careful...the engine you blow, will most likely be your own...lol.

My jaw is still on the floor that 5ps = 300whp...WOW, WOW...and a billion WOW's! If it was only 4g's instead of 6.5....OUCH.

Skythe

That's the biggest problem with FI "reliability" is people either aren't getting good tunes, don't know what they're doin, or are ****** around with **** they ain't got no damn business touchin.

You get a turbo....leave it alone. It's that simple. So many people have blown their engines, cuz they wanted to push-the-envelope and turn up the boost, "just a little bit" a week later... BOOOOOOOOMM!

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

things that make you go hmmm...

Porsche spent 2 years and 750,000 miles trying to make improvements to the turbo's for the 997 turbo to withstand the 1,700 deg F temps that are caused by their variable geomety turbo system. We have the same temps all the time and just throw on every day turbo from greddy's shelf.....


I'm still a NA person...

peloponisios

Same as you I decided to go N/A for my euro 5mt challenge rx-8 (supposedto have 192 crank hp).
So I did the whole package except from messing with Renesis itself(porting etc).
Revi-Custom Ram Air-Racing Pulleys-Headers-Racing Cat-Free Flowing Single Exhaust-Lighter Flywheel-Clutch Combo-Stock ECU tweaking and many more to come and already done.
OK, it is faster, it breaks traction easier, it is more enjoyable and makes me happy every time I step on it, but without FI this is how far it can get, the route I am about to follow now is to strip the interior back seats, carbon bucket in front, Volks(18's but I thought of 16's-ugly son of a gun but crispier-not fitting the brakes though, change the tranny) and things like that which will cost a fortune but all except the headers could be used with a turbo.
And what I realized is that Renesis without FI will always be a toy machine matched against only equally powered vehicles. Yeah in the older days, 240 hp would be awesome but now they are not. I would be happy with 300-330 whp under my foot and man this would be fast and possibly I will do it BUT hanging out with many rx-7 owners, seeing what these monsters can do and how they accelerate and of course how often they rebuid their wankels, I can see that for present I cannot afford FI and its wearings to the motor. I Have to have at least 50 grand aside to rebuild every time I break it.
But FI cannot be replaced with any N/A mod, that is the sad fact.

yiksing

This is one of the funniest thing I've heard.

cjkim

what's so funny? maybe i'm not seeing something

yiksing

Not meant to be sarcastic or anything but the sentence "But FI cannot be replaced with any N/A mod, that is the sad fact"

Isn't that an obvious thing to point out, I mean FI is FI, off course you can't replaced with N/A mods. Its like you're saying orange cannot be replaced by apple and I go "blank in my mind" and speechless. Just ignore me ok, its just me.

rx8wannahave

If I did...I would.

It's well known I'm a NA lover myself and if I could take 1 sec off the RX8 NA, that would be enough for me...but other than NOS, it would cost too much to do such a thing.

Now...5psi for 300whp is such low boost and on top of that I wouldn't touch a thing after it was properly tuned, that I think it would be pretty reliable regarding adding stress to the engine.

Am I wrong on this? Isn't 5psi pretty safe...????

Skythe

You and I feel similarly. 5 psi for another 50+ lbs of torque, working out to 300wHp, is a great compromise.

I'm sure there's an exponential positive correlation between boost levels and engine wear.

Engines, especially in sports cars, tend to be "overbuilt" and this is the Renesis, successor to the 13b of teh All-Mighty-RX7, I'm not worried in the least.

JB_Rotary

I personally think it still comes down to what are your goals? Where are you trying to be faster? I have a friend with an S2000 who just came back from the wake the dragon rally. He only has an intake and front sway bar and he was waaaay faster than alot of the people with superchargers and turbos. He just knows how to drive. Seat time is still the best "mod". Especially if you are more concerned with Auto X. If you are doing more track stuff especially at Road America(longest straight in the US), you will want more power. Our car will already out handle most things out there. It doesn't need as much power as you might think. I'm kind of a hypocrite though as I am still trying to decide to stay NA or go FI. (leaning towards NA becasue all motor is great)

yiksing

I'm a N/A freak too, if possible I would go for a 20B Renesis instead of the FI route.

Former A4'er

[QUOTE=rx8wannahave]If I did...I would.

It's well known I'm a NA lover myself and if I could take 1 sec off the RX8 NA, that would be enough for me...but other than NOS, it would cost too much to do such a thing.

QUOTE]

I think I'm reading your post correctly but FYI nitrous oxide is considered FI.

BTW: I'm in the same boat as you, N/A rocks but living at 6,000ft makes Scott's new turbo kit look awesome!!

Fanman

You are looking at it in the wrong way. This was the first time they have brought the VGT technology to gasoline engines (previously they had it on lower temperature diesel engines) that run hotter. But conventional turbos have been running in 1,700 degree temps for a long time now. Has nothing to do with turbos, but more to do with the VG technology & the way the compressor blades/vanes have to be designed. RX's have run those temperatures & turbos for decades now.

HeavyMetal699

The problem with the Renesis is that it comes relatively maxed out NA from the factory.

What everyone is trying to say is that it is going to be incredibly difficult and expensive to squeeze too much more horsepower out of the engine without opening the engine itself.

FI is the cheaper and less complicated route by far, but the modifications that have been listed could be carried over to FI except the cold air intake.

C_RX8

does the UR pulleys create a potential problem .........anyone knows? Since the pulleys are lighter than the factory does this create problems along with positive results.......LOL.....

peloponisios

Basically you are right but I had in mind a different thing. For example I would prefer the NA M division 6 cylinder motor of the M3 than a turbo motor at 320hp.

Or I would prefer a NA Type R at 280hp(which is possible with their motors) than a turboed vti.

With Renesis there is not more to do than porting(which is in porgress so we don't know for sure the gains) and getting on a diet, other than all the other peripheral mods we talk about.

JB_Rotary

Who is currently wokring on porting?

Moostafa29

There are a few ported people around, but they may not be the most vocal members on the forum.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

PM "guitarjunkie28"

http://www.rotaryheads.com/porting/

Magic8

According to Rotaryheads.com Porting gives 10HP and roughly 2MPG increase...All this for $2500.

Hmm...all motor may not get the high HP that a FI can give, but it starting to sound pretty attractive. I would probably maximize the NA potential on the Renesis and install an on-demand FI system (nitrous) for those moments that I need more Torque and HP.

DARKMAZ8

Problem is, An N/A rotary with all the bells and whistles will make more noise then a harley.

rotarygod

In regard to magic8's post, that was also without any tuning done after the fact. If you don't care about your cat, you can retune the stock engine to about 210-215 rwhp. Scott as Mazsport can make this a reality. The intake ports don't really need amuch work but the exhaust ports do. They don't breathe all that well yet the engine still makes good power. It could probably be pushed up to the 230 rwhp mark or so max with everything else done to it. That's speculative of course and assuming that porting will only give a max of about 15 hp or so. That may or may not be true. It could be less. It could be more. Understand that the 3rd generation RX-7 was rated at 255 hp at the crank and typically dyno'd around 215-220 rwhp. That should give you an idea of how good the Renesis itself really is and how poor the factory tuning actually is.

guitarjunkie28

as we found out the hard way, to get the REAL, completely accurate numbers on porting, we'd have to start with an ems on stock ports, then retune after porting.

one motor did 9% increase before tuning, running richer than it was stock. another one, the computer freaked out and ran the afr's into the low 10's and it lost a bunch of hp until it was retuned...then it picked up about 17-18.

i no longer recommend porting with the stock ecu. at least not until we find a rliable way to work around it.