INT X engine management
12-07-2007, 08:46 PM
#1
INT X engine management
Folks---iI have to give credit to Scott for ---imho-- a really good product. I recently installed the Pettit S.C. kit and used the INT x and a base map Scott installed for it.
The car fired right up, idles well, great power with no hesitations throughout the rpm range. Once I got my vacuum hoses tweaked and the superchargers idle air hose tweaked --the car idles smooth at 1.1K. All functions work well--cruise control, traction control etc. The map is rich so gas mileage sucks right now but that was expected. But with a tune it is expected to be close to oem if not a little better.
The car cranks well even on a 30degree morning.. I didnt have to modify my maf to get an iat sensor. I am just really satisfied.
The flexibility of the unit has convinced me to stay with it instead of an ecm flash that is available. Just for example, i can have a track map ready for when I put the midpipe on, i can have a shift light, i can have a valet map, i can data log til i am sick of it. etc The unit offers a lot--even the ability to tune each rotor separately if it was required.
i am not trying to sell anything to anyone. Just saying that for me the Int X had really lived up to the quality that Mazsport is known for(not to mention the great service that they give)
Now I am fortunate to live in a rather mild climate in comparability to others. i live in GA. So extreme swings in temps/elevations are non existent for me. I do have temps from low 30's to 106 through out the year.
I dont mean to go on and on here but dont discount the INT X as a great EMS for the 8.
When i think well of something i just like to share
oldsuperchargeddragger
The car fired right up, idles well, great power with no hesitations throughout the rpm range. Once I got my vacuum hoses tweaked and the superchargers idle air hose tweaked --the car idles smooth at 1.1K. All functions work well--cruise control, traction control etc. The map is rich so gas mileage sucks right now but that was expected. But with a tune it is expected to be close to oem if not a little better.
The car cranks well even on a 30degree morning.. I didnt have to modify my maf to get an iat sensor. I am just really satisfied.
The flexibility of the unit has convinced me to stay with it instead of an ecm flash that is available. Just for example, i can have a track map ready for when I put the midpipe on, i can have a shift light, i can have a valet map, i can data log til i am sick of it. etc The unit offers a lot--even the ability to tune each rotor separately if it was required.
i am not trying to sell anything to anyone. Just saying that for me the Int X had really lived up to the quality that Mazsport is known for(not to mention the great service that they give)
Now I am fortunate to live in a rather mild climate in comparability to others. i live in GA. So extreme swings in temps/elevations are non existent for me. I do have temps from low 30's to 106 through out the year.
I dont mean to go on and on here but dont discount the INT X as a great EMS for the 8.
When i think well of something i just like to share
oldsuperchargeddragger
12-08-2007, 11:43 AM
#5
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OD. Could you explain to me how you got the SC to idle consistently. I've been running the map that Scott did for Juan and the only way I can get it to calm down is pump the brake pedal, but that only works untill the next time I come to a stop.
12-08-2007, 07:14 PM
#6
i had to reroute the jet air hose and the omp vacuum hose back to the intake with the airtake fitting behind the maf. on the install pettit has the omp and the jet air vacuum hoses butted together i also had to install on the supercharger idle air hose a separate air filter(not hooking it to the maf tube) and use a reducer to get the flow right. the idle is controlled more by that hose than anything. After I found the right size reducer--that got the idle to a steady 1.2k---i further tweaked it by placing a clamp on the tube and slowly clamping it until I reached 1.1K. Any lower than that and the idle will wander uncontrollably.
The supercharger has to have an air source at idle--the throttle body is largely closed---right? The supercharger is mounted after the tb--right? so it has to have an idle air cource--now the trick is to "tune" that hose if you will.
Also the other hoses --the jet air in particular needs to function in a more oem way.
Put new plugs in and the above and i have a steady 1.1 idle. I showed this to a bunch of people today including SilverEight etc.
Its rich but I am still getting apprx 225miles per tank. With a tune Scott says i should be back to my usual 280 range.
Tuning the idle for a supercharged engine is a little different than na or turbo. Tuning is more than a/f and timing. Yall probably already know that.
The cold weather start up impressed me.
oscd
The supercharger has to have an air source at idle--the throttle body is largely closed---right? The supercharger is mounted after the tb--right? so it has to have an idle air cource--now the trick is to "tune" that hose if you will.
Also the other hoses --the jet air in particular needs to function in a more oem way.
Put new plugs in and the above and i have a steady 1.1 idle. I showed this to a bunch of people today including SilverEight etc.
Its rich but I am still getting apprx 225miles per tank. With a tune Scott says i should be back to my usual 280 range.
Tuning the idle for a supercharged engine is a little different than na or turbo. Tuning is more than a/f and timing. Yall probably already know that.
The cold weather start up impressed me.
oscd
12-08-2007, 07:36 PM
#7
Originally Posted by olddragger
on the install pettit has the omp and the jet air vacuum hoses butted together
Originally Posted by olddragger
i also had to install on the supercharger idle air hose a separate air filter(not hooking it to the maf tube) and use a reducer to get the flow right.
Originally Posted by olddragger
the idle is controlled more by that hose than anything.
Originally Posted by olddragger
After I found the right size reducer--that got the idle to a steady 1.2k---i further tweaked it by placing a clamp on the tube and slowly clamping it until I reached 1.1K.
Originally Posted by olddragger
Any lower than that and the idle will wander uncontrollably.
Originally Posted by olddragger
The supercharger has to have an air source at idle--the throttle body is largely closed---right?
Originally Posted by olddragger
The supercharger is mounted after the tb--right?
Originally Posted by olddragger
so it has to have an idle air cource--now the trick is to "tune" that hose if you will.
Originally Posted by olddragger
Also the other hoses --the jet air in particular needs to function in a more oem way.
Originally Posted by olddragger
Tuning the idle for a supercharged engine is a little different than na or turbo. Tuning is more than a/f and timing.
Originally Posted by olddragger
The cold weather start up impressed me.
The idle issue is a big problem and one I am interested in seeing addressed by Pettit's flash.
You shouldn't need an idle bleed at all. None of the other Lysholm setups I've seen need one. Did the Millennia S have an idle bleed? I doubt it. Take a look at the system in Corky Bell's "Supercharged". Did it need an idle bleed? No.
If you are happy with this solution than good for you.
12-09-2007, 08:54 AM
#8
Thanks MM---I am satisfied with the idle at present now. I have always thought the stock idle was too slow for this engine. I know the timing etc swaps around at the oem rate.
A lot of the superchargers use an idle air tube/hose--even idle air motors. Jackson Racing (miata's) for one example. You are right that different set ups can be used.
One thing I havent done yet is to use a good one way valve on that hose. Actually the idle air hose is more of a air balance hose. At idle it just draws a good bit of vacuum.
Curious---how is adding a separate air filter to that hose scare you?
oscd
A lot of the superchargers use an idle air tube/hose--even idle air motors. Jackson Racing (miata's) for one example. You are right that different set ups can be used.
One thing I havent done yet is to use a good one way valve on that hose. Actually the idle air hose is more of a air balance hose. At idle it just draws a good bit of vacuum.
Curious---how is adding a separate air filter to that hose scare you?
oscd
12-09-2007, 12:32 PM
#9
So have I, but bypassing the throttle isn't the way to do it.
No it doesn't. It has a bypass valve like the Pettit, but it uses a metered IAC valve from the OE Miata setup, not a bleed.
If the '8 had a mechanical idle with a separate bleed, that would be one thing.
But, since it has a PCM controlled TB that acts as an IAC solenoid, bypassing it is not acceptable.
Wanna take a stab at how that works with Pettit's new flash?
No, using an open-air, un-metered, throttle bypass air bleed scares me.
If the '8 had a mechanical idle with a separate bleed, that would be one thing.
But, since it has a PCM controlled TB that acts as an IAC solenoid, bypassing it is not acceptable.
Wanna take a stab at how that works with Pettit's new flash?
No, using an open-air, un-metered, throttle bypass air bleed scares me.
12-09-2007, 05:30 PM
#10
sure --unfiltered hose would be bad--I agree.
Jackson has an idle air control hose that is routed to an idle air check valve. Many times miata owners have to use restrict ors on that hose to decrease the amount of air coming in to correct their idle. Different sizes are used until it is correct for that car.
The air coming through the maf doesnt matter in my car because i am running the INT X.
Originally that tube is designed to route to the intake tube. Whether that hose picks its air from the intake tube or through its own filter doesnt matter, The re stricter can be used anywhere the tube is located. I decided to use a separate small filter because i wanted the vacuum source it was using for the jet ait/omp lines as the oem does.
It is just like running some cars with a vacuum leak---the idle goes up or it runs rough--in this case it causes the idle to go up.
As the throttle body is opened the amount of vacuum that hose is pulling is greatly decreased. When you have access to a car with this kit on it --pull the hose off were ever it is running too and then have someone give it the gas while you monitor the vacuum in that hose.
If i leave this hose open and mounted to the air intake then the car idles at about 1.3--1.4 K---tooo fast for me. it is constant--no wandering---but too fast.
Can you explain where the superchargers air supply comes from when the tb is closed? Honest question--no sarcasm meant. It is a draw through system.
I came into this FI world realizing I know little about it
oscd
Jackson has an idle air control hose that is routed to an idle air check valve. Many times miata owners have to use restrict ors on that hose to decrease the amount of air coming in to correct their idle. Different sizes are used until it is correct for that car.
The air coming through the maf doesnt matter in my car because i am running the INT X.
Originally that tube is designed to route to the intake tube. Whether that hose picks its air from the intake tube or through its own filter doesnt matter, The re stricter can be used anywhere the tube is located. I decided to use a separate small filter because i wanted the vacuum source it was using for the jet ait/omp lines as the oem does.
It is just like running some cars with a vacuum leak---the idle goes up or it runs rough--in this case it causes the idle to go up.
As the throttle body is opened the amount of vacuum that hose is pulling is greatly decreased. When you have access to a car with this kit on it --pull the hose off were ever it is running too and then have someone give it the gas while you monitor the vacuum in that hose.
If i leave this hose open and mounted to the air intake then the car idles at about 1.3--1.4 K---tooo fast for me. it is constant--no wandering---but too fast.
Can you explain where the superchargers air supply comes from when the tb is closed? Honest question--no sarcasm meant. It is a draw through system.
I came into this FI world realizing I know little about it
oscd
12-09-2007, 08:00 PM
#12
Hey OD That post about the air-cooled throttlebody in your Int-x thread was total BS btw, I'm just breaking MM's *****. Cam told him about this at SSX and MM got his panties in a bunch. Basically Cam was F'ing with him, but MM didn't know that. So I'm going to keep F'ing with him... hehe
mod edit- this post revived from deletion for clarity- zoom44
12-09-2007, 08:23 PM
#13
sure --unfiltered hose would be bad--I agree.
Jackson has an idle air control hose that is routed to an idle air check valve. Many times miata owners have to use restrict ors on that hose to decrease the amount of air coming in to correct their idle. Different sizes are used until it is correct for that car.
Jackson has an idle air control hose that is routed to an idle air check valve. Many times miata owners have to use restrict ors on that hose to decrease the amount of air coming in to correct their idle. Different sizes are used until it is correct for that car.
Miata's have a cable-pulled throttle, so there is no real consequence from an idle bleed, as long as it doesn't counter the independant IAC, which was removed in the early kits.
Even when the car is off, there is a gap in the TB.
The PCM uses the TB as an IAC on the RX-8. This is not a minor point.
Its just a vacuum line re-route. It doesn't cool anything.
It is, however, a nice way to avoid having to use a shaped hose.
That post about the air-cooled throttlebody in your Int-x thread was total BS btw, I'm just breaking MM's *****. Cam told him about this at SSX and MM got his panties in a bunch. Basically Cam was F'ing with him, but MM didn't know that. So I'm going to keep F'ing with him... hehe
Hey - if you were at SSX, why didn't you say hello? Or, are you a ***** like Moon?
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 12-09-2007 at 09:33 PM.
12-09-2007, 08:51 PM
#14
Lol! Is that what Cam is calling that now?
Its just a vacuum line re-route. It doesn't cool anything.
It is, however, a nice way to avoid having to use a shaped hose.
That wasn't quite what we were joking about, but Cam and I have a bit of a different understanding than you guys.
Hey - if you were at SSX, why didn't you say hello? Or, are you a ***** like Moon?
Its just a vacuum line re-route. It doesn't cool anything.
It is, however, a nice way to avoid having to use a shaped hose.
That wasn't quite what we were joking about, but Cam and I have a bit of a different understanding than you guys.
Hey - if you were at SSX, why didn't you say hello? Or, are you a ***** like Moon?
I wasn't at SSX, and Moon may be a lot of things, but he's definitely not a *****.
You would have known it if I was at SSX, as I'm definitely not shy with introductions.
12-09-2007, 09:36 PM
#15
Cam didn't start doing that re-route until after SSX. He didn't do it to Jesse's car and Mood added this "function" when he was screwing up a bunch of other things on Phil's car last month. We fixed most of those things back the way they should be, but we left the cooling mod alone because its quite attractive.
The thing that did get my panties in a wad at SSX was the use of a SawzAll on the ABS distribution block bracket on Jesse's car, but I bit my tongue on that one. Wish I hadn't.
The thing that did get my panties in a wad at SSX was the use of a SawzAll on the ABS distribution block bracket on Jesse's car, but I bit my tongue on that one. Wish I hadn't.
12-09-2007, 10:19 PM
#18
I guess I forgot that when we talked the other day. I probably need to not allow myself to be so distracted on the phone next time. PM me with what ya did so I can keep track of what the Hell has been going on with Phil's car willya? IIRC, Moon may be stopping by to flash Phil's PCM soon.
12-09-2007, 10:28 PM
#20
Maybe. I don't care to keep track of Moon's schedule except to the extent that it might involve own toolbag.
I found a simpler, more discreet, way of routing that hose that includes the TB heater circuit but I decided to just leave it as is since it's neither here nor there.
I found a simpler, more discreet, way of routing that hose that includes the TB heater circuit but I decided to just leave it as is since it's neither here nor there.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 12-09-2007 at 10:31 PM.
12-09-2007, 11:46 PM
#21
Mechanically, I don't remember if I even fooled with too much under the hood that day.
I just checked to see what changed, shook my head ruefully and off we went into the night with the laptop running full tilt (fed the hamster that night).
I gotta start bringing my little voice recorder with me to sessions so I can keep track of what is going on.
I just checked to see what changed, shook my head ruefully and off we went into the night with the laptop running full tilt (fed the hamster that night).
I gotta start bringing my little voice recorder with me to sessions so I can keep track of what is going on.
12-10-2007, 12:01 AM
#22
I had a stern discussion with Phil about not wanting to play "Ring Around the Rosie" with anybody and, instead, suggested that if any changes are thought to be made to the install I did that I get a call first. The installed "remedy" for the alleged problem was rather "amateurish" in its application. Self-tapping screws tend to have their way with plastic if they don't also include Tinnerman clips. I am no longer hesitant to say that I was disappointed with what I saw last time I was in LV.
12-10-2007, 12:10 AM
#23
I'm not really sure why Cam felt the need to move the coils in the first place, let alone use sheet metal screws.
Did he create any metal shavings for you this time?
I'll give Phil a ring next week and see if it still wants me to come around.
I've still got to figure out what to do with Jesse's system since the OE EMS won't play nice with the idle bleed that OD is so enthusiastic about.
Had a nice discussion with Scott about that subject...
Did he create any metal shavings for you this time?
I'll give Phil a ring next week and see if it still wants me to come around.
I've still got to figure out what to do with Jesse's system since the OE EMS won't play nice with the idle bleed that OD is so enthusiastic about.
Had a nice discussion with Scott about that subject...
12-10-2007, 12:16 AM
#24
The claim, as I understood it, was that the wiring harness was rubbing on the blower housing(?). I am not sure. I could understand the claim, as wrong as it would have been, that the harness was interfering with the A/C pulley. I do know that there was no interference when I did the initial install nor when I left this last time. The coils are secured much better now, as they were beforehand. I can't wait to see what happens over the next few months. I may have some Thank You letters to send.
12-10-2007, 02:20 AM
#25
Administrator
no he wont because i specifically asked moon if they had the flash portable in a lap top or something
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=778
and he answered
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=779
just in case ill ask him again
i understood it was a "send it in" or come on in flash- when did it go mobile? are you flashing it out of the car ? or thru the diagnostic port? are you travelling with the tool in a laptop?
and he answered
just in case ill ask him again