Ideas for Passing Emissions with Turbo/SC RX8's
01-29-2007, 09:18 PM
#1
Go Texas Longhorns!
Thread Starter
Ideas for Passing Emissions with Turbo/SC RX8's
As I have been giving serious thought to finally going FI in the next 18 months as my warranty expires, I was thinking, ok we all joke about how we'll find a way to pass emissions, but I hadn't seen a definitive thread on ways to do so.
I was thinking to myself and bouncing questions of RG, about ways to disconnect the boost mechanisms, that when combined with returning the stock ECU, should allow you to pass a OBD plug in emissions test. Visual tests are a whole different issue, but most states don't have that.
Turbos - I'm guessing you could wire open the waste gate, bleed out all the boost and them run the stock ECU through the drive cycles. Any issues with this idea? would the car drive well enough to get through the drive cycles necessary? How do you wire open the waste gates? Is it easy to do on most turbos? How about the Greddy turbo?
Superchargers - Same idea, maybe just diconnect the pully?
any other ideas? I'm assuming your running either the stock CAT or an aftermarket one here, so the issues is getting the ECU to think everything is fine.
I was thinking to myself and bouncing questions of RG, about ways to disconnect the boost mechanisms, that when combined with returning the stock ECU, should allow you to pass a OBD plug in emissions test. Visual tests are a whole different issue, but most states don't have that.
Turbos - I'm guessing you could wire open the waste gate, bleed out all the boost and them run the stock ECU through the drive cycles. Any issues with this idea? would the car drive well enough to get through the drive cycles necessary? How do you wire open the waste gates? Is it easy to do on most turbos? How about the Greddy turbo?
Superchargers - Same idea, maybe just diconnect the pully?
any other ideas? I'm assuming your running either the stock CAT or an aftermarket one here, so the issues is getting the ECU to think everything is fine.
01-29-2007, 10:12 PM
#8
ive driven rotary cars, and lived in CA for a long time.
1. the test is basically done at a steady 15mph and 25mph, in the rx7's its about 2800rpms, in 2rd and 3rd. if its boosting there, the operator is doing something way way wrong.
2. the turbo has basically no effect on emissions, @ a constant 25mph, its acting a lot like the stock exhaust manifold.
3. the smog machine does hook up to the odbII cars, any CEL is an instant fail, so its looking for the stock ecu. if you need to put stuff back on and clear codes, it needs to be driven for a while for the ecu to do its tests.
4. visual's up to you, imo theres not much point in looking at an obdII car, additionally most smog techs prolly arent too familiar with the rx8, so as long as it looks stockish, its prolly fine. old and flamable looking works too
1. the test is basically done at a steady 15mph and 25mph, in the rx7's its about 2800rpms, in 2rd and 3rd. if its boosting there, the operator is doing something way way wrong.
2. the turbo has basically no effect on emissions, @ a constant 25mph, its acting a lot like the stock exhaust manifold.
3. the smog machine does hook up to the odbII cars, any CEL is an instant fail, so its looking for the stock ecu. if you need to put stuff back on and clear codes, it needs to be driven for a while for the ecu to do its tests.
4. visual's up to you, imo theres not much point in looking at an obdII car, additionally most smog techs prolly arent too familiar with the rx8, so as long as it looks stockish, its prolly fine. old and flamable looking works too
01-29-2007, 10:39 PM
#9
id try finding an emissions testing place that is more "lienient."
try asking around on 7club, they seem to know of a place in california and maybe others in other states
try asking around on 7club, they seem to know of a place in california and maybe others in other states
01-29-2007, 11:04 PM
#10
Registered
Fortunately in Texas we don't have a sniffer test for OBDII cars and we don't have a visual inspection. The only thing that matters is that the engine doesn't throw any codes.
01-29-2007, 11:18 PM
#11
'03 Dodge Viper
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Fortunately in Texas we don't have a sniffer test for OBDII cars and we don't have a visual inspection. The only thing that matters is that the engine doesn't throw any codes.
I'll be supercharging my car...any ideas on how to pass WITHOUT having to uninstall everything?
This thread was a good idea.
01-30-2007, 07:48 AM
#13
Finally Boosted!!!!!!!
I'm hoping that the reflashers will eventually fix this problem like mike said. Until then, I am going to try using the Emanage Ultimate with a supercharger. The only CEL people have been getting using the ultimate is the one relating to the APV, but since I will be removing the resistor that prevents the APV from opening I shouldn't get that CEL. I will just have to wait and see...
01-30-2007, 07:55 AM
#14
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I just went through this not long ago. It was a pain in the ***. Its not hard to remove the IntX and disable the wasetgate, but if you have fuel system mods you have to take those out so the PCM can control things. Its just a pain to remove the aftermarket injectors and put the stock ones back in. Plus, you have to get the entire intake manifold on before you can check the fuel injectors/rails for leaks. I've never had one before, but this time around I got a small one and had to redo the whole thing. Its not hard, just a pain. But I do worry about the wear and tear on the injector O-rings.
01-30-2007, 07:58 AM
#15
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Nice to see a thread on this. Most people in the SC or turbo threads are real jerks about this. As soon as you mention no having CEL's or getting thru emissions your treated like ****.
01-30-2007, 08:49 AM
#16
Go Texas Longhorns!
Thread Starter
More and more people are rolling off warranty and will be going this route over the next 18 months. Seeing as you can piece together a decent greddy kit with an interceptor for less than $5K now, it seemed like a good idea to start working on it.
01-30-2007, 10:58 AM
#17
I figure the supercharger is going to be my route. I researched my State, and found that all I need to do is hook up the bus and not show any CELS. There is NO visual or sniffer for an '04. I feel sorry for the older cars, like my daughters '95 Jetta. She has to go on the dyno for a rolling sniffer test, and they will most likely fail her due to the catless midpipe.
01-30-2007, 11:58 AM
#18
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According to federal law (which is the minimum standard adopted by states) there can be NO sniffer test for a car that was equipped with OBD-II when it came off the assembly line. Any car that came with it from the factory must pass by plugging in to the OBD-II and having the following: 1) all test results ready (enough drive cycles have past) 2) no stored trouble codes. It doesn't matter if you have a cat or not. Its pretty stupid since I'm sure I would have passed a sniffer test but I couldn't get one. The goal of these regulations is to keep hydrocarbon emissions down, but you can't ever directly measure them on a car that came equipped with OBD-II. rediculous... Your state may adopt more stringent standards, such as a visual check, but they will be at least the above.
The federal regulations also say that it is illegal to put an engine in a car that is older than the chassis. So, if you put a 20B, a 13B-REW, an LS1 or whatever, if its a day older than the chassis you are now street illegal.
SO for the 8, it makes no difference if you are supercharged or turbo'd. You will need to have an operable OBD-II system that shows enough drive cycles and is storing no codes. That's it. How you go about achieving this is up to your own creativity.
The federal regulations also say that it is illegal to put an engine in a car that is older than the chassis. So, if you put a 20B, a 13B-REW, an LS1 or whatever, if its a day older than the chassis you are now street illegal.
SO for the 8, it makes no difference if you are supercharged or turbo'd. You will need to have an operable OBD-II system that shows enough drive cycles and is storing no codes. That's it. How you go about achieving this is up to your own creativity.
Last edited by MadDog; 01-30-2007 at 12:22 PM.
01-30-2007, 12:05 PM
#19
'03 Dodge Viper
Ok tell me if you guys think this would work.
Pettit's supercharger has a bypass valve. If you don't press on the throttle much, it doesn't allow boost. What if you were to clear all codes electronically, and stay out of boost on the way over to the testing facility?
Something tells me this MAY work as long as no codes are thrown by the ECU...doesn't the Int-X cause a CEL just by having it installed?
Pettit's supercharger has a bypass valve. If you don't press on the throttle much, it doesn't allow boost. What if you were to clear all codes electronically, and stay out of boost on the way over to the testing facility?
Something tells me this MAY work as long as no codes are thrown by the ECU...doesn't the Int-X cause a CEL just by having it installed?
01-30-2007, 12:12 PM
#20
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No. The IntX usually throws the 'too rich' trouble code. Its not that the IntX is installed. Its the tune. But, there's really now way to have the PCM be happy with the IntX installed. If it weren't this code, it would be another one, like the cat trouble code since the PCM can't modulate the AFR to monitor cat health like it wants to.
Also, its takes more than just a trip to the testing facility to accumulate the drive cycles necessary after clearing the codes. The exact procedure is in the shop manual, but a day or two of normal driving is what's needed.
Also, its takes more than just a trip to the testing facility to accumulate the drive cycles necessary after clearing the codes. The exact procedure is in the shop manual, but a day or two of normal driving is what's needed.
01-30-2007, 12:21 PM
#21
Well, touch wood, I've managed to NOT trip a CEL for the last 10 drive cycles and have no stored codes.
It required a lot of Matrix mode tuning and the tricks employed with the EMU (AFM map changes, negative ignition split, O2S fooling, etc.).
Now, if we can figure out how to get the Int-X to do the things the EMU is doing, everyone can be happy.
It required a lot of Matrix mode tuning and the tricks employed with the EMU (AFM map changes, negative ignition split, O2S fooling, etc.).
Now, if we can figure out how to get the Int-X to do the things the EMU is doing, everyone can be happy.
01-30-2007, 12:58 PM
#22
'03 Dodge Viper
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Now, if we can figure out how to get the Int-X to do the things the EMU is doing, everyone can be happy.
01-30-2007, 01:09 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by j9fd3s
ive driven rotary cars, and lived in CA for a long time.
1. the test is basically done at a steady 15mph and 25mph, in the rx7's its about 2800rpms, in 2rd and 3rd. if its boosting there, the operator is doing something way way wrong.
2. the turbo has basically no effect on emissions, @ a constant 25mph, its acting a lot like the stock exhaust manifold.
3. the smog machine does hook up to the odbII cars, any CEL is an instant fail, so its looking for the stock ecu. if you need to put stuff back on and clear codes, it needs to be driven for a while for the ecu to do its tests.
4. visual's up to you, imo theres not much point in looking at an obdII car, additionally most smog techs prolly arent too familiar with the rx8, so as long as it looks stockish, its prolly fine. old and flamable looking works too
1. the test is basically done at a steady 15mph and 25mph, in the rx7's its about 2800rpms, in 2rd and 3rd. if its boosting there, the operator is doing something way way wrong.
2. the turbo has basically no effect on emissions, @ a constant 25mph, its acting a lot like the stock exhaust manifold.
3. the smog machine does hook up to the odbII cars, any CEL is an instant fail, so its looking for the stock ecu. if you need to put stuff back on and clear codes, it needs to be driven for a while for the ecu to do its tests.
4. visual's up to you, imo theres not much point in looking at an obdII car, additionally most smog techs prolly arent too familiar with the rx8, so as long as it looks stockish, its prolly fine. old and flamable looking works too
01-30-2007, 01:14 PM
#24
Originally Posted by SlayerRX8
And we would all love you.
Unfortunately, it would require hacking it open and Microtech doesn't give away the wiring info - they tailor the box to each spec.
I'll tear it open at some point, I'm sure.
01-30-2007, 01:18 PM
#25
I just found out I'm far enough away from Seattle, that I do not have to get tested! 
But if I did live up there, then this would apply:
Gasoline vehicles:
Gasoline vehicles will get either a tailpipe test or an on-board diagnostic (OBD) test. Gasoline vehicles must also get a gas cap test.
Tailpipe test:
1995 and older vehicles get their tailpipe’s exhaust emissions measured:
• at idle,
• while driven on a dynamometer (rollers), or
• in park or neutral at 2500 rpm engine speed.
On-board diagnostic (OBD) test:
1996 and newer vehicles get a test of their on-board computer to see if their emission controls are working properly. If there is a problem, the test results will show a code that matches the problem. Your repair technician is specially trained to understand these codes and repair the vehicle correctly.
Gas cap test: The gas cap test checks for leaks. Be sure to replace a missing gas cap before coming for a test.
But if I did live up there, then this would apply:
Gasoline vehicles:
Gasoline vehicles will get either a tailpipe test or an on-board diagnostic (OBD) test. Gasoline vehicles must also get a gas cap test.
Tailpipe test:
1995 and older vehicles get their tailpipe’s exhaust emissions measured:
• at idle,
• while driven on a dynamometer (rollers), or
• in park or neutral at 2500 rpm engine speed.
On-board diagnostic (OBD) test:
1996 and newer vehicles get a test of their on-board computer to see if their emission controls are working properly. If there is a problem, the test results will show a code that matches the problem. Your repair technician is specially trained to understand these codes and repair the vehicle correctly.
Gas cap test: The gas cap test checks for leaks. Be sure to replace a missing gas cap before coming for a test.