Phish806

iTrader: (4)

This last Saturday was the Steve Kan tuning session that a few of us had set up. After a long day of hanging out and talking to everyone and watching car after car on the dyno it was finally my turn. Car gets on the dyno and Steve and I are going over modifications and what not setting up the microtech why they get the car strapped down. The driveability was getting worked on first. Slowly progress was being made. Never getting a full pull in yet, always stopping when the last set of injectors was kicking it. Still working on the lowe rpms. A good number of "pulls" into the tune something un expected happen. The pull starts without issue, at around 6k he lets off the throttle, but the car keeps climbing as if he is still in the gas. Realizing that something is obviously wrong, he kills the iginition as quickly as possible. We talk about how crazy and awkward that was and go to start the car. As soon as it starts, the rpms skyrocket as if the throttle is being pressed.

I start investigating. Microtech is reading the throttle is at 33% when the throttle is not being pressed. I tear apart the intake piping to look at the TB. The TB is stuck a little open. I unplug the wiring going into it and its still open. Figured without a signal (if the issues was signal related) it would close. TB did not close. I pushed it shut with my finger and it sprung back open. Will not stay closed no matter what. The general consensus at the dyno was the the Mechinisim that controlls the TB skipped a tooth/gear or two and will not close. I am hoping a new TB will fix the issue and i can get it back on a dyno quick like.


What were the numbers you ask? Well, never got a full pull in. The highest number it saw was 220whp on 5psi at 6500 RPM. I am thinkign 3k more RPM and 10 more lbs of boost i would have hit the 400 WHP mark, which was my goal in the first place.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

1st time I have heard that happening?
OD

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

me to . . . . it threw me off quite a bit. Not sure what else it could be though besides the TB. With the wiring not connected it should stay shut, but it will not stay shut for the life of me. still springs back open. I will remove it off the car tonight and inspect it a little closer. Beyond that i dunno what wold be the issue. As it sits right now, if you start the car it revs to around 3500 - 4k and just holds RPM there.

200.mph

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hey phish that sux but lmk if you need a tb. i got one in the garage for a spare, i bought it used from a member that did a swap.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Well, looks as if i am getting a TB from 200.mph. I will swap this out and hopefully be ready to go again. Still a crazy issue to have and still no clue how it happend.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

The TB is supposed to be slightly opened. Here is a pic of my old TB and as you can see it is partially opened.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Thats about where mine is sitting. However, when you push the gas half throttle, the tb does not open slowly it does not move untill you get damn near to full throttle then opens.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Also, after i first took off the intake the TB was about half way open, i had to manual close it with my finger. Odd situation all together

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

That is a different than what you originally described. I would do more research on the subject before making any changes.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Not really sure how its different.

On the dyno the throttle stuck and car was shut off.

On restart the car's rpms go upward as if the throttle is being pressed.

After this happened on the dyno i took off the intake and the tb was open.

I proceded to unplug the TB and it was still open

Pushed shut with finger and it would spring back open ( if this is where the confusion is it would only spring back open slightly, as if in your picture)

when pushing the trottle down from the "closed" position (which now i am learing is slightly open) the TB does not move untill the pedal is almost to the full throttle position.

Michrotech reads 33% throttle when there is no pressure on the pedal at all.

Does that help clear things up? Sorry if things are seeming a little confusing.

Spin9k

You do realize the TB is electronically controlled by the ECU? It won't do sqat until the ECU says, regardless of your gas pedal oir anything else you do to get it open. The partially open may just be 'normal'.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

I am aware that the tb is controlled by the ecu. However, i assumed that if it was unplugged and getting no siganal it should be in the closed position. Maybe i am wrong.

If we are not sure its the TB what are other theorys that could be the issue here?

When i get home i will take the intake off and start the car. It will "idle" at 4k rpm and i will look and see if the TB is open or closed. If its closed and getting that much air, wouldnt that mean a massive leak in the manifold somewhere?

I know i am most likely getting ahead of myself but just going over so many different scenarios in my head. Not having the car infront of me and trying to troubleshoot it is not the smartest way to make things happen either.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

The picture I posted is unplugged and out of the car.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Correct, when i unplugged mine for the first time right after it happened, it stayed stuck open untill i manualy closed it with my finger.

staticlag

Was the mircotech's throttle sensor correctly calibrated?

My first suggestion is to remove the microtech and start the car and let it idle. The stock ECU should handle that just fine. If there are no problems then its the mircotech.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

We had two hours worth of dyno time not to mention i had driven the car 2k miles before hte tune. The microtech throttle calibration was correct when all this was going on. Michrotech was brand new also when hte new motor went in 2k miles ago.

I plan on cheching the intake for leaks and cracks along with any hoses that may have come off. I plan on removing the TB and cleaning it and making sure its functioning properly. After that i may remove the microtech if i dont find anything else.

My first thought was the computer when this happend since it is drive by wire, however i moved on to thinking it wsa the TB seeing how the car ran and functions fine besides the really high "idle"

lafrad

ETC throttle bodies are supposed to be open a tiny bit when unplugged. This is called "ETC Limp Home". if the throttle body loses all power, it will default to a mode where the engine gets enough air to "fast idle" but no more. If you have lots of boost in front of the throttle plate, and a broken or *way* too aggressive BOV< it can actually push the blade open a bit and continue pushnig power through.


However, it sounds more like a disconnect, or poor calibration between the gas pedal and whatever ECU is controlling the throttle blade movement. Check for sensors or wires that could have gone bad.

Spin9k

I would at least go thru the 'throttle body inspection' in the shop manual to determine if the TB has malfunctioned. Taking it out and looking at it is really going to help as it is an electronic device.

Turblown

Bummer. So what are you initial thoughts vs the old turbo ?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

poop happens, update us once a different TB is used

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Well. I got home from work yesterday and went to work on the car. I got in and started the car for ***** and grins to see if i got the same situation for the 100th time. Car started and idled perfectly. Kinda in disbelief i took apart the intake pipe anyway along with taking off the throttle body. There was an excessive amount of oil inside the pipe. I cleaned the pipe out then moved onto the Throttle body. There was a small amound of build up around the shaft and blade. I used some brake clean and cleaned everything out of the TB and re installed everything. All the electronics are also reading fine now which is kinda odd and wierd. Went for a drive and everythign functioned as normal.

I believe there was jsut a great deal of oil going through the intake sicne i had never beaten on the car as badly as it was being done on the dyno. This happened at about an hour and a half into the dyno with some pretty affressive driving of the car (obviously).

Once my test run was done, i installed a catch can i had sitting on the shelf that i did nto have time to get on the car before the tune. I am hoping that the catch can will solve my oil in the intake issue and the TB will not get in the same situation.

As far as turbo goes. There is no comparison between this the gt35 and the old turbo from the original esmeril kit. fromw what i have experienced its a whole differnt ball game from responce to power at low boost to quality. Just wish i had some real numbers to throw out to you guys instead of 220whp at 6000ish rpm on a 5lb wastegate. None the less, i am already trying to work out another tuning session to get this ready to go.

Turblown

Good to here, I knew you would be happy. Just to be clear its not exactly a GT35R, just GT35R compressor section. Its a " hybrid " GT35R.

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Correct. However, i really dont care if its a hampster runnin inside a wheel, if it hits 400whp, is responsive, and has a decent power curve, i will feed that little guy whatever he wants.

dznutzuk

I'm having this exact same problem for some fcuked up reason...

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)