The Great Renesis Porting Project!
11-17-2004, 11:55 AM
#27
port hacker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: socal
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is anyone else interested in having some porting done?
i can't afford to do it for free because carbide costs me money...not to mention i spent like 9 hours on this one. but i can do it basically for the cost of the materials i use and maybe a bit on top of it for labor...but mostly just to see what kind of power it will make.
only concern is i don't have any idea how much power it would make, so there is some risk involved. i'd really love to see before and after dyno sheets.
i can't afford to do it for free because carbide costs me money...not to mention i spent like 9 hours on this one. but i can do it basically for the cost of the materials i use and maybe a bit on top of it for labor...but mostly just to see what kind of power it will make.
only concern is i don't have any idea how much power it would make, so there is some risk involved. i'd really love to see before and after dyno sheets.
11-17-2004, 03:36 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 3,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by smrx8
didnt ito get like 50 hp when he ported his? and jim from racing beat says they only got 4 to 8 something not right.
11-17-2004, 03:49 PM
#31
Registered
Actually when I talked to Jim, he never claimed any internal port work as of yet. He was more concerned with getting bolt on products finalized and then later on moving in to that arena. The person that claimed they have ported it was just a little part time guys. His story was never even consistent. The numbers Jim was talking about were just the bolt on gains so far. He's only seen 4-5 hp with headers, 3-4 with an intake, and a few across the exhaust. He has stated that he didn't think there were many gains to be had from porting since they were done so good from the factory but then he went on to say that the exhaust ports in the engine are terrible. This is a contradiction. We won't know for sure until we see one ported and someone actually takes pictures and verifies it after it runs.
Ito claims he hit 240 rwhp on his just off of bridgeporting the auxillary ports. His dyno looked strange to me though. There was a several horsepower peak where it jumped up to that number but fell down above and below it. I don't mean that power just improved when the auxillary ports opened and then climbed up to redline. There was a small peak in that rise and that is the number he quoted. That is worthless info. His power peak also came at about 7000 rpm or so when it should have come at 8500. Something is wrong with that. His motor is peaking where the 13B's should peak rather than where the Renesis should peak. The stock ecu also can't compensate and he claims that it hasn't been touched. He's done good work on rotaries in the past but he doesn't ever tell you anything useful and his dyno claims are misleading. It is also very rare that you ever see any pictures of his ports. There's nothing secretive about enlargening a port. You can stare at a picture all day but it doesn't mean that you can copy it.
Judging from the several rotaries I've ported so far, I don't see it taking me 9 hours to port. You can actually enlarge each port in about 15 minutes. The long part comes in cleaning them up and getting them smooth. It would still probably take a good 4-5 hours though. Don't even get into the time it takes to cut a bridge. I've done them and they suck to do.
Ito claims he hit 240 rwhp on his just off of bridgeporting the auxillary ports. His dyno looked strange to me though. There was a several horsepower peak where it jumped up to that number but fell down above and below it. I don't mean that power just improved when the auxillary ports opened and then climbed up to redline. There was a small peak in that rise and that is the number he quoted. That is worthless info. His power peak also came at about 7000 rpm or so when it should have come at 8500. Something is wrong with that. His motor is peaking where the 13B's should peak rather than where the Renesis should peak. The stock ecu also can't compensate and he claims that it hasn't been touched. He's done good work on rotaries in the past but he doesn't ever tell you anything useful and his dyno claims are misleading. It is also very rare that you ever see any pictures of his ports. There's nothing secretive about enlargening a port. You can stare at a picture all day but it doesn't mean that you can copy it.
Judging from the several rotaries I've ported so far, I don't see it taking me 9 hours to port. You can actually enlarge each port in about 15 minutes. The long part comes in cleaning them up and getting them smooth. It would still probably take a good 4-5 hours though. Don't even get into the time it takes to cut a bridge. I've done them and they suck to do.
11-17-2004, 03:57 PM
#32
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Actually when I talked to Jim, he never claimed any internal port work as of yet. He was more concerned with getting bolt on products finalized and then later on moving in to that arena. The person that claimed they have ported it was just a little part time guys. His story was never even consistent. The numbers Jim was talking about were just the bolt on gains so far. He's only seen 4-5 hp with headers, 3-4 with an intake, and a few across the exhaust. He has stated that he didn't think there were many gains to be had from porting since they were done so good from the factory but then he went on to say that the exhaust ports in the engine are terrible. This is a contradiction. We won't know for sure until we see one ported and someone actually takes pictures and verifies it after it runs.
Ito claims he hit 240 rwhp on his just off of bridgeporting the auxillary ports. His dyno looked strange to me though. There was a several horsepower peak where it jumped up to that number but fell down above and below it. I don't mean that power just improved when the auxillary ports opened and then climbed up to redline. There was a small peak in that rise and that is the number he quoted. That is worthless info. His power peak also came at about 7000 rpm or so when it should have come at 8500. Something is wrong with that. His motor is peaking where the 13B's should peak rather than where the Renesis should peak. The stock ecu also can't compensate and he claims that it hasn't been touched. He's done good work on rotaries in the past but he doesn't ever tell you anything useful and his dyno claims are misleading. It is also very rare that you ever see any pictures of his ports. There's nothing secretive about enlargening a port. You can stare at a picture all day but it doesn't mean that you can copy it.
Judging from the several rotaries I've ported so far, I don't see it taking me 9 hours to port. You can actually enlarge each port in about 15 minutes. The long part comes in cleaning them up and getting them smooth. It would still probably take a good 4-5 hours though. Don't even get into the time it takes to cut a bridge. I've done them and they suck to do.
Ito claims he hit 240 rwhp on his just off of bridgeporting the auxillary ports. His dyno looked strange to me though. There was a several horsepower peak where it jumped up to that number but fell down above and below it. I don't mean that power just improved when the auxillary ports opened and then climbed up to redline. There was a small peak in that rise and that is the number he quoted. That is worthless info. His power peak also came at about 7000 rpm or so when it should have come at 8500. Something is wrong with that. His motor is peaking where the 13B's should peak rather than where the Renesis should peak. The stock ecu also can't compensate and he claims that it hasn't been touched. He's done good work on rotaries in the past but he doesn't ever tell you anything useful and his dyno claims are misleading. It is also very rare that you ever see any pictures of his ports. There's nothing secretive about enlargening a port. You can stare at a picture all day but it doesn't mean that you can copy it.
Judging from the several rotaries I've ported so far, I don't see it taking me 9 hours to port. You can actually enlarge each port in about 15 minutes. The long part comes in cleaning them up and getting them smooth. It would still probably take a good 4-5 hours though. Don't even get into the time it takes to cut a bridge. I've done them and they suck to do.
Well the dynos don't lie. Maybe the truth has been stretched, but he did hit that number. I'd like to see pictures as well and some greater explanation, I love learning about this kind of stuff even though I'm pretty new to it. I hope Racing Beat has some success with porting the engine when they get to that point, they're a group I'd trust to screw around with my engine. Thanks again for all of this info RG.
11-17-2004, 04:04 PM
#33
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Rotary god
If you are as good at selling real estate as your knowledge of rotaries , you should be retiring pretty soon :D .
Combining a rotary workshop with a realestate office would be
After spending 23 years in realestate 10 years in my own bussiness now i am finally taking it easy playing with my toys .
cheers
michael
If you are as good at selling real estate as your knowledge of rotaries , you should be retiring pretty soon :D .
Combining a rotary workshop with a realestate office would be
After spending 23 years in realestate 10 years in my own bussiness now i am finally taking it easy playing with my toys .
cheers
michael
11-17-2004, 05:12 PM
#34
Registered
Originally Posted by Aoshi Shinomori
Well the dynos don't lie. Maybe the truth has been stretched, but he did hit that number. I'd like to see pictures as well and some greater explanation, I love learning about this kind of stuff even though I'm pretty new to it. I hope Racing Beat has some success with porting the engine when they get to that point, they're a group I'd trust to screw around with my engine. Thanks again for all of this info RG.
11-17-2004, 05:35 PM
#35
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Originally Posted by rotarygod
I understand that dyno's done lie. He has also just hit a very similar hp number with his daughters 6 port RX-7 engine. Maybe a dyno doesn't lie, but how do you know the dyno you are looking at is for the engine you think it is? Something to think about when believing dyno claims.
11-17-2004, 05:50 PM
#36
Dyno's don't lie, but they can be "tweaked". I'm not accusing any companies of doing so, just pointing out its possible.
1) Redyno the vehicle over and over again, until the perfect conditions are met.
2) Compare a just warmed up car, to a heat soaked one.
3) Turn the AC on for one run
4) Adjust the straps inbetween runs
5) Dyno the vehicle on different days, at different times, under different environmental conditions.
A few other ways, but they escape me right now.
1) Redyno the vehicle over and over again, until the perfect conditions are met.
2) Compare a just warmed up car, to a heat soaked one.
3) Turn the AC on for one run
4) Adjust the straps inbetween runs
5) Dyno the vehicle on different days, at different times, under different environmental conditions.
A few other ways, but they escape me right now.
11-17-2004, 08:10 PM
#38
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Originally Posted by guitarjunkie28
as previously stated, there's not a whole lot to be had from the intake. the engine can suck plenty of air in. now getting it out is another story...
11-17-2004, 08:39 PM
#39
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rotarygod what do you think the chances of porting only the the exhaust exit with the engine still on the car.i would remove the the manifold and start to grind away??
11-17-2004, 09:04 PM
#40
Registered
You can't. The exhaust exit that you can see is not what needs attention. It is the physical port openings in the combustion chamber that need the help. There's nothing you can do from the outside.
11-17-2004, 09:12 PM
#41
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks rotarygod.that sucks because i cant get anyone who has experience to port my engine all the shops i call have never done an rx8 ,i called ito shop but he is to busy 
11-18-2004, 12:13 AM
#42
port hacker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: socal
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you want to take a small gamble, i'll port them.
i'll even do it for free--except the cost of the barbide burrs consumed ~$50.
all i want is before and after dyno charts.
it is a small gamble, but i do think it'll build more power throughout the rpm range. there's just no reason it shouldn't. i'm not sure what the actual hp gain would be, but if you see the before/after ports, you'll realise how much better they will flow.
if we do that, i don't want you to change anything on the car--no exhaust, intake, nothing except maybe just making sure the air/fuel ratio is about the same. i'd want to see what the porting alone gives power-wise, then we can see how much of a difference everything else makes.
i'll even do it for free--except the cost of the barbide burrs consumed ~$50.
all i want is before and after dyno charts.
it is a small gamble, but i do think it'll build more power throughout the rpm range. there's just no reason it shouldn't. i'm not sure what the actual hp gain would be, but if you see the before/after ports, you'll realise how much better they will flow.
if we do that, i don't want you to change anything on the car--no exhaust, intake, nothing except maybe just making sure the air/fuel ratio is about the same. i'd want to see what the porting alone gives power-wise, then we can see how much of a difference everything else makes.
11-18-2004, 04:13 PM
#48
port hacker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: socal
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alright.
first one is basically free--just reimburse for the materials... after that, i'll get some kind of a price together. there's a lot more work than there is with the rx7 motor....that's for sure.
first one is basically free--just reimburse for the materials... after that, i'll get some kind of a price together. there's a lot more work than there is with the rx7 motor....that's for sure.
11-18-2004, 04:34 PM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Rancho, So cal
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow I usually just stick to reading the aftermarket section but I'm kinda glad I came over here. Junkie I live in Rancho it's about a half hour from you. If you're still game I'd love to work something out. I of course have no problem driving out there. My girlfriend lives half an hour away in the other direction so I'm used to the drive. The 15N is a bitch but we'll figure it out. Just lemme know and we'll PM.
Edit: Also my car is stock (unless you consider a green air filter to be a mod :p ) So we would see some interesting dyno figs.
Edit: Also my car is stock (unless you consider a green air filter to be a mod :p ) So we would see some interesting dyno figs.
Last edited by Snoochie; 11-18-2004 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Extra info
11-18-2004, 05:26 PM
#50
port hacker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: socal
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cool. whoever is first then...
rancho is closer to 45 minutes, but still well within range. remember, i want before and after dyno sheets with NOTHING else changed.
rancho is closer to 45 minutes, but still well within range. remember, i want before and after dyno sheets with NOTHING else changed.
Last edited by guitarjunkie28; 11-18-2004 at 05:31 PM.
