Got my new turbo tune, and now my car sounds like a Subaru (w/ video)
 

Well, well, well.... I'm back with another problem. Got my latest tune from MM and installed it and car was running great. I was finally able to go WOT and reach redline. Well I was on the autobahn in boost and then the car just seemed to lose power... The exhaust note changed (as if I was missing an ignition cycle) and the car could not accelerate and could just barely keep a steady speed. I came to a stop and the engine died right away, and would not restart.

Towed it to the shop... checked for spark coming out the wires, changed the spark plugs, checked for boost leaks, did the deflood procedures, cleaned the MAF, and engine still will not start. Finally decided to tow strap the car and get it up to speed then slip the clutch, and was finally able to get the engine turning under its own power but I have to blip the throttle to keep it alive and it will not idle on it's own. Drove the car around the block a few times and the car is extremely weak and just doesnt have any power.

It almost feels like (and sounds like) the engine is missing a cycle. I have spark coming out all 4 and fuel... what else do I need to look for ? I was also able to start my Accessport and get a datalog while the car was running, its not a very steady log since I was blipping the throttle most of the time.

Datalog: datalog1.csv

Below is a video of how the car is running now after we tow strapped it to get it started.

Many factors in play here.

Sounds like its running on one rotor... check engine compression. :fingersx:







.

What was it doing before the latest tune? Are your coils good?

Bad compression on a Renesis means blown apex... doesnt blown apex mean pieces in the engine ? Because when I was doing the deflood with the spark plugs out there was none of that business going on..

Everything was good up to the point in which the car lost power. I checked each plug wire for spark.

This has a few wrong assumptions, namely there are several different ways to lose compression. Even the methods which involve losing one or more seals doesn't preclude the possibility of the seal(s) getting ejected out of the exhaust port successfully.

Forgot to mention I got a few engine codes:

P0336: Crankshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Range/Performance

EPS
U1900
U2023

RKE
U1900

The P0336 code has shown up in the past... I've resetted the code and it would not pop back up for a long time. The rest of the codes are just communication errors I am assuming from during research (not a problem).

Just watched your 3 day rotary rebuild on youtube Charles... doesn't look fun. :crying:

Sound like a blown seal to me sorry

you were finally able to go WOT and blow the engine ...

Now that's a bad deal... lol

But in all seriousness, it sounds like it's blown if all coils and cables have been checked.

Blown apex seal for sure.

That's what mine sounded when I lost compression with my original factory engine last June. The engine bogged in the freeway and the RPM couldn't maintain idle or even rev more than 4,000 RPM. It stalled but I coasted and popped the clutch in third gear as I exited and just kept my foot on the throttle at 1,500 RPM and drove it in the city streets like that for about three miles home.

SMH yes I blame myself for blowing the engine... I was just a little too excited after receiving my latest tune from MM. BUT you live, learn, UPGRADE, and hope to never do it again. I was extremely discouraged at first, being overseas with limited rotary support. But Javier20b is a member that recently moved to Germany, he is a rotary builder with 15 years of rotary experience. So I will be rebuilding my engine with some stronger seals and doing some porting.. hoping to come back better and stronger than ever. I hope to view this experience as a "blessing in disguise". :beer05:

Stronger seals? Did your buddy tell you about those. Did you get this engine compression tested prior to going turbo? Get it rebuilt by someone with experience rebuilding a renesis. What works on a previous version of the 13b does not necessarily work on a Renesis.

My engine had 26k on it when it blew... I have no doubt that my engine was strong before I went turbo. Before the engine blew on the autobahn, I had noticed on my boost gauge that I was hitting 13-15 psi so there may be a wastegate adjustment issue that I will need to fix. Stronger seals is a preventative measure... I've researched and I know that with a proper tune the stock seals should be all that you need. If you search "Savannah" on the forum you will see some of the work done by Javier20b. I am confident that I am in good hands.

Thats a lot of boost on stock seals, and 26K means nothing if it wasn't compression checked first. Its 100-200 bucks well worth it, no excuse not to get it done before going FI even if there is only 1K miles on the block.

Yeah mileage has little to do with it, my first engine died at 22,000 miles. IIRC your car sat for a couple of years right? Either way that is way too much boost for a stock engine, especially if it was a reman.

you were confident to hammer it WOT too, just saying ...

You live and learn... hope to have better luck while tuning this engine. Javier20b will be tuning it in person this time, no more WOT datalogs.... and waiting.

Does he have experience tuning with ATR and a Cobb? I haven't seen anything from him indicating he does. Good luck.

He's tuned many rotaries but he usually uses Haltechs or other standalones. I've downloaded the ATR, so I'm gonna let him take a look at it and see if he can work with it. He may not have the "rep" that you TX guys have on the forum, but I think I'm in good hands ;).

Thread w/ some of his work--> https://www.rx8club.com/se-rx-8-foru...thread-233442/

We have a rep but I'm not sure if it's a good one, :lol:

Tuning an RX-7 on an old EK6 Haltech almost has nothing to do with tuning a turbo renny using a Cobb and ATR. Which is why most RX-7 tuners don't tune RX-8's. Having someone learn on your car is a gamble, especially doing so on a fresh engine. I would leave the tuning to MM if you already paid for his services.

Sounds good ek6 is super old. That computer is a relic but a good one.

3 rx8 motors build on my belt.

Wow, 3 whole Renesis engine builds.... And what does building a Renesis have to do with tuning one?

It's all the same dude

yeah if you think so then one zoom-zoom-boom coming right up

:lol: Yeah okay. You actually sound exactly like most of the other RX-7 "tuners" I have met. Ignorance is bliss. Good luck OP, you will need it. This guy is clueless.

Since you have so much expiriance to talk. That's what I love about this thread, people have their car built by someone els and all the sudden they become rotary gurus. Got to love it.

Javier 20b is a pretty awesome dude with rotarys!... rx7 guys don't tune renny's because they are interior to a 7 block....other than high comp rotors, the multiport and MOP hold it back.

I have known Javier for years, seen him rebuild several motors, seen him tune as well. The guy knows what he is doing and what he is talking about.

To start talking trash about a guy before you have even talked to him or seen his work is ignorant!
like it would be ignorant of me to assume that becuase of your attitude you came from a Honda or Hyundai group before
tuning is all the same for the most part. learing a differnet interface or software is the easy part. as long as you can maintain good AFRs and get your timing maps right your car will run fine for along time.
as far as cobb tuners go. they are fine for basic bolt ons. if you go forced induction you need to have a dyno tune not an email tune.. seen plenty of blown up STIs, speed 3s, turbo 8's blown up because they ran lean or had too much advance while they were waiting for an email to show up with their new tune.
"Oh sorry your car blew up, the Data log you sent me didn't show that 1.546 LAMDA at full boost at 8700 rpm" says the remote tuner. Im sure that he is a good tuner, but you can't account for all driving conditions.
and lastly....I am soo tired of some RX-8 owners on their high horse! come off it and join us in the wonderful world of all things rotary!...

geesh calm down...

04-11 Rx8 Atkins Cryogenically Treated Apex...

and here ya go stronger apex seals

Except that they're known not to seal well and costed some members here a new rebuild right after finshing the first one with them...

Renesis Seals

oh and more stronger seals

You don't need strong seals. You need seals that seal while not being harsh on the housings.

Goopy 2mm Rx-8 Apex Seals - Turblown Engineering

Here is another apex seal stronger than stock.

I've used them with very good luck!... but you hvae to make sure that your housing is flat... due to the MOP injectors not actually spaying the apex seal (04-08) the housing cups. it won't matter what seal you use..as soon a carbon gets inbetween the housing and the seal its all over and since the multi-side port doesn't allow the carbon to escape through the exhaust. it just keeps getting worse. pre mixing is a must with the renisis.

And another

RA Super Seals

ha ha

any way....Rotary Redliner
you are in good hands!

I’m guessing this must be their engine building experience. LMFAO

ha ha ha the rotor was placed in wrong...even after he looked at it gear down foo!

Hey Myles is that your voice. hahahahahaah

ha ha yeah ...i was forced to to a video for work....i hate being recorded

i sound like im talking to 3rd graders ha ha

I am not a high horse and I am not bashing the guy and I don't need to meet him. I am just posting my opinion based on what I have read in his posts. His comments alone tell me that he doesn't really have a clue how to tune a turbo Renesis. You can't just decide to become a Cobb tuner one day to the next because you have some experience tuning and RX-7 on a universal Haltech. And if you think learning to tune with a Cobb via ATR then you are clueless as well. Why do you think there are only four or five competent Cobb tuners that have successfully tuned a turbo RX-8? If it was so easy every rotary tuner in the country would be doing it. Many have tried and failed miserably. What map will he start with to build off of? Not MM's map because it is locked. How will he create the VE table, etc., etc, etc.

But if you guys believe in his tuning abilities then great, knock yourself out. I will still post my opinion regardless because as of yet I haven't seen javier20b post anything that indicates he is a competent tuner or builder.


Are you implying my car was built by someone else? I am no guru by any means but I do tune my car on my own, and everything on/in it from the engine to the turbo kit, the suspension, the custom oil coolers and cooling setup, has all been installed by me with the help of my SARX friends. And I have also had a hand in just as many Renesis rebuilds as you and done almost a dozen Renesis engine swaps.

That said, some things should just be left to those with extensive experience. Just because someone can rebuild an engine doesn't always mean they should. But hey if Rotary Redliner wants someone who has never tuned a turbo Renesis before to tune his RX-8 then so be it, it's his car and his money. Sometimes we take risks and that is fine as long as we fully understand the risks. But it sounds to me like the OP has some blind loyalty to you without any real understanding of what you are capable of doing in terms of Cobb tuning.

You sound like a GM assembly technician. So you assemble cars. Ok got it.