FI Discussion Thread for the Boost Atheists
12-18-2007, 10:48 AM
#101
Thanks Kane--- appreciate the feed back. Seems pettit's offer with it's kit is designed to go with the flash they have for their s/c package. Makes sense now. I dont drag my 8--i track her and charge cooling would be all i would ever be interested in.
No doubt that meth/water has more potential than just that. But at a price.
I never thought anyone would want to run around the street or a road track with a renasis engine tuned to take full advantage of a meth/water injection system. Not that it couldnt be done
It would just be too much to keep up with for the adverage guy.
oscd
No doubt that meth/water has more potential than just that. But at a price.
I never thought anyone would want to run around the street or a road track with a renasis engine tuned to take full advantage of a meth/water injection system. Not that it couldnt be done
It would just be too much to keep up with for the adverage guy.oscd
12-18-2007, 11:16 AM
#103
ooooo - great question Ray!
You would def need and want full evaporation (as that = full gradient change) - I think only empirical data will tell you how close to the "hot" gradient you can get and still max cooling...
Although higher temp would obviously aid in vaporization.
You would def need and want full evaporation (as that = full gradient change) - I think only empirical data will tell you how close to the "hot" gradient you can get and still max cooling...
Although higher temp would obviously aid in vaporization.
12-18-2007, 11:38 AM
#104
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
one thing i am wondering about is that if yu have the nozzle post-compressor, do you face it at an angle? i assume you would want even distribution, and even atomization to cool the temps as much as possible.
12-18-2007, 11:46 AM
#106
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok. well i have another Q. if you use water alone to inject, wouldnt it be bad if some of the water didnt evaporate?
i know, stupid question
i know, stupid question
Last edited by chetrickerman; 12-18-2007 at 11:51 AM.
12-18-2007, 11:59 AM
#107
Administrator
Zoom and I agree to disagree on this subject. *snip*
When increasing the tube size you loose granularity in low load/idle situations and by decreasing the tube size you loose the ability to tune for the high airflow situations because you max out the MAF voltage range quicker. We do agree that there is NO reason to decrease the MAF tube size below the 3-3/8" OEM size.
A MAP based system is basically the opposite. You loose tuning granularity in low load/idle situations but gain it at the top end.
When increasing the tube size you loose granularity in low load/idle situations and by decreasing the tube size you loose the ability to tune for the high airflow situations because you max out the MAF voltage range quicker. We do agree that there is NO reason to decrease the MAF tube size below the 3-3/8" OEM size.
A MAP based system is basically the opposite. You loose tuning granularity in low load/idle situations but gain it at the top end.
yep we do- it comes down to you tune /tuner available. if you dont have someone near you that has experience with MAFS but he tune rings around a map all day then...
but having said that- you do not lose any granularity at the bottom end when going to a bigger MAF. MAFs are non-linear and there is plenty of resolution to go around. when changing MAF sizes you are simply changing the range you can measure.
If your thermometer goes to 100 and you need to measure to 150 you dont get a smaller thermometer that only measures 75. you get one that can read to 150 or higher. thats what you are doing when you move to a bigger maf.
everyone knows MAPs work but look around. MAFs are a better systems because they tell you how much air you actually have vs the educated guess of the map. MAPs are used in cars now as a cost saving measure.
With a MAP system you need to retune when ever you change something- change your intake - retune. change the type of filter for better flow- retune. with a MAF the tune tells it what to do with whatever amount of air it gets. It simply accepts the new reading and adjusts accordingly.
12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
#111
Administrator
hmmm remote mount turbo MAF system with Meth injection install
http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/...s/sts-a1-1.php
remote mount turbo MAF system with Meth injection installhttp://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/...s/sts-a1-1.php
12-18-2007, 01:54 PM
#115
Finally Boosted!!!!!!!
It always comes down to the tuner... 
I never said anything about going to a bigger MAF sensor. I always discussed changing the tube size that the MAF sensor is mounted in.
I never said anything about going to a bigger MAF sensor. I always discussed changing the tube size that the MAF sensor is mounted in.
12-18-2007, 02:25 PM
#116
Administrator
even with just going to a bigger tube with the same sensor. but you do need to rescale your tuning to accommodate the % change in the cross section area
from openecu http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic....2f6d75bfb93610
from openecu http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic....2f6d75bfb93610
12-18-2007, 05:57 PM
#117
ok conversation ideas
1- bigger TB?
2- pettit uim=pretty good? (looks good to me)
3- disabling the vdi?
4- plugs? are most running all trailings? Gaps? Types?
5- new coils from Scott will be here soon! Speculation?
KDC--do they really use chickens on steroids?
oscd
1- bigger TB?
2- pettit uim=pretty good? (looks good to me)
3- disabling the vdi?
4- plugs? are most running all trailings? Gaps? Types?
5- new coils from Scott will be here soon! Speculation?
KDC--do they really use chickens on steroids?
oscd
12-18-2007, 08:15 PM
#118
Rotared
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SW OKC
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am still not sold on the MAF. The camaro example is running 7 psi. I have seen them around at the strip here. It is not a new thing. I bought a turbo of a mustang w/ a similar setup over a year and a 1/2 ago.
I read somewhere that the stock unit (MAF)can handle 47lbs per minute. That is slightly under the sweet spot on a t4 35R. Guys are making 500+ w/ a 4094R and having pretty good response w/ turbo lag. I truely believe it is a matter of time before you can get a renny there. I have a few ideas, but that is for another time.
I completely understand what you are saying about the MAF being able to handle changes. Either way in a FI (I am talking turbo chargers) a new flash would be required w/ any large change(injectors, turbo, so forth) on a MAF based system . Which is the same w/ a MAP system.
Appearantly I have tuned more cars on a MAP based system and this may lead me to be biased. I have yet to see a MAF system on any car runing 25+ psi of boost. All my experiences are in the rotary world on MAP systems.
I am not talking drag racing here. Having a 400+ car on a road course is what I call a great day. And lets face it you will need that much power if you plan to compete w/ what is around the corner in the sports car world. 400 today is the 250 of days ago. While our cars handle on rails we need power to compete.
I understand the Christmas tree in association w/ the changes you are speaking of. I believe there are possiblities around the corner. Some one correct me if I am wrong but I have yet to see a Mazda car that can be flashed for modifications the way Cobb does the STI. I know my mazdaspeed 6 cannot accomplish this and an aftermarket ECU was being developed last I looked. Again I am a rotary guy and my wife drives the 6. I believe anyone seeking large power goals w/ be using a aftermarket ecu to make the higher power levels. Seems to be the cards in the past.
I read somewhere that the stock unit (MAF)can handle 47lbs per minute. That is slightly under the sweet spot on a t4 35R. Guys are making 500+ w/ a 4094R and having pretty good response w/ turbo lag. I truely believe it is a matter of time before you can get a renny there. I have a few ideas, but that is for another time.
I completely understand what you are saying about the MAF being able to handle changes. Either way in a FI (I am talking turbo chargers) a new flash would be required w/ any large change(injectors, turbo, so forth) on a MAF based system . Which is the same w/ a MAP system.
Appearantly I have tuned more cars on a MAP based system and this may lead me to be biased. I have yet to see a MAF system on any car runing 25+ psi of boost. All my experiences are in the rotary world on MAP systems.
I am not talking drag racing here. Having a 400+ car on a road course is what I call a great day. And lets face it you will need that much power if you plan to compete w/ what is around the corner in the sports car world. 400 today is the 250 of days ago. While our cars handle on rails we need power to compete.
I understand the Christmas tree in association w/ the changes you are speaking of. I believe there are possiblities around the corner. Some one correct me if I am wrong but I have yet to see a Mazda car that can be flashed for modifications the way Cobb does the STI. I know my mazdaspeed 6 cannot accomplish this and an aftermarket ECU was being developed last I looked. Again I am a rotary guy and my wife drives the 6. I believe anyone seeking large power goals w/ be using a aftermarket ecu to make the higher power levels. Seems to be the cards in the past.
12-18-2007, 08:28 PM
#119
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so i know that there is a problem with our ignition that when you get into the higher hp numbers (400+) the ignition fails out. so as a corrective measure, cant we just up the voltage to the coils or isnt that the problem?
12-18-2007, 08:45 PM
#123
I understand the Christmas tree in association w/ the changes you are speaking of. I believe there are possiblities around the corner. Some one correct me if I am wrong but I have yet to see a Mazda car that can be flashed for modifications the way Cobb does the STI.
Pettit Racing has developed a flash that works with their supercharger kit that is producing in the range of 300-310 hp. I'm currently running this and have exactly 0 check engine lights. Christmas, without the tree.