Dan 8

Hymee said..

PS - I'm surprised a little bit that no one to date has made any comments about the oil cooler...

Is the oil cooler the red coloured pipe , thats feed to the engine ??

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Well, they bolt straight onto the RX-8 engine. Just because a few of the bends etc are in a different position doesn't affect the workings. There are other basic parameters that let the headers make the power. Those same principles, and long time rotary engine experience, went into making both these headers and Wildcards. But as to that intellectual property, like I said earlier, I'm not giving away the farm

Yes - I can bring these headers to market. I just have higher priority in the next stage of tests at the moment - the supercharger. (and whatever else we decide to chuck at it )

Cheers,
Hymee.

anbjornk

No you don't.... Give us the headers

rexi

Hymee,
"The cat in the rx8 is quite big and would cause little or no restriction"

This comment of yours has me very , very perplexed indeed.?????
Racing beat who is conservative with their hp claims , states that a max of 8 hp is liberated by removal of oem cat pipe with resonator and replacing with straight pipe.

Therefore your header did not liberate all that extra power at all. A substantial amount of that 14 hp improvement came about because of the cat removal as well.
Just my educated opinion.

Regards
Rexi

dmp

The only way Hymee's 222hp can relate to the 232hp REVISED number is if Hymee used THOSE standards when dynoing.

rotarygod

I am curious as to how we can see such wide dyno numbers as was stated earlier. This is what Hymee got with a good tune on it. Can't argue with that. I know for a fact that a Renesis has hit 250 on an engine dyno in the U.S. also using a Motec so it's curious that there are such discrepancies between engines. We also have seen widely varying chassis dyno's on RX-8's that can be 30 hp off in some cases. For some of them we can relate this to the type of dyno used but on others we can't. Then we have the fact that the Formula Mazda's use stock Renesis engines but they say they are extremely consistent from engine to engine. I just don't get it. What gives?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

The oil cooler is not red. It is fed by hoses that have red and blue fittings. If that narrows it down, LOL. Hint - don't look for an air-cooled radiator core.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

WTF I already told you that. Back on 126
And did you get my Email earlier?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your educated opinion. Perhaps I just wasted my time and money then going to all the effort and expense of doing this excercise, when all along I could have just guessed.


Can you tell me what the physical % blockage to flow is presented by the stock cat?

BTW - Racing beat also says:

"The max potential with a header and race exhaust would be around 10HP".

We found 14. I know RB are God and cannot be questioned or challenged. Oh well. We have our figures... and Wildcard knows how his top speed was affected by the ram air duct.

There are fundamental rotary tuning principles, based on lots of hard won experience, as to why those headers have been made as they are, and make power compared to the standard exhaust manifold.

I make no appologies for sounding defensive. I guess I could just not share my findings with the community. That way no one would be able to take shots.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

OK - Your last sentence is essentially correct. You can see it in the picture. We are actually using a transmission or power steering oil cooler from a V8 Supercar. It uses those same laminova cores I was looking at using for the water/air intercooler for the blower.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I suppose differences in dyno's could account for some of it. But we are talking a large variation here. I have no reason to doubt the numbers we got. It is from a professional setup that has to be acurtate for the types of work it is primarily engaged to do. V8 Supercar teams don't muck around.

The fact that one make series has such close results sort of points in the direction that the engines are all pretty similar. But I guess they are blue-printed anyway. I don't know.

But I'm not going to worry about getting it. I've got my base. We can only move forward from here. And move with confidence, not guessing!

Cheers,
Hymee.

takahashi

Hymee..

I am sure it has been covered.

Is the 14HP you found with Phils extractor with standard ECU or with your MoTeC?

Thanks

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Yep - it has been covered.

None of these test have been constrained by the standard ECU. Every ounce of power was extracted from the standard engine with the standard exhaust manifold on, then again with Grandad's headers.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

It's nice as long as you set up the flow and size right. But the cooler in the bucket has an advantage, it always keeps the oil at 212 degrees. No more no less, it's perfect. Unfortunatly you can't do this in the car because the bucket spills. Also you can't always replace the water wherever you happen to be.

It really is a easy and excelent way to do it on the dyno. Zueschel even did it with the Merlins.

bostrumpet01

Thanks Hymee for all the work! I appreciate that someone is as dedicate to this engine as you are! That must have been a long process. (loved the Renault vid, they should put that in an rx 8) :-) Well, hate to say it guys, but its just to much nidy-gridy work for not a lotta output, I think as of today I am an official WRX owner :-(, not to sound picky, but $1200 will get you about 60 whp with a Cobb 1.5 upgrade (putting out about 265 whp w/out warranty void on a WRX). That compared to the $6700 I spent on my greddy turbo, stage 4 clutch, X-EMS, mid pipe, boost controller and the tune, on my RX 8, only to the sound of 258 whp???? Plus the phantom original horse power Mazda claims ???? Mazda might just want to take special note to this website and figure in real peoples opinions and heart aches in designing their next sports car. It was fun (I guess) and I appreciated all the help!

Rx-A-Ho

^^ Troll. Stage 4 clutch? Guess the "stage" marketing campaign got to you too. 258 WHP with greddy and Int-X you have got to get a better tune. $6500 + base RX-8 price should be less than the STI + mods price...

bostrumpet01

Its a standard WRX (the STI would be nice) but I did research and didnt see 9k worth of upgrades from the standard WRX TR to the STI. The stage 4 clutch was recommended by a local performance shop, I had little input to that. :-)

bostrumpet01

Yeah, I figured I could have gotten better (from what I read I was expecting 280), but even with the 258 my stock rear wheels and tires are constantly getting shut down with the DSC and when thats off, getting traction to them is a fine science

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Topic, please.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I dont get it, I trust your stuff Hymee, but its really strange, like RG said, this engine is really weird. Some people got lower and some got higher HP ....

sigh ...

rxeightr

Hymee --
You never cease to amaze! Your baseline is what it is, but instead of providing answers it creates many more questions.

The idea the engine was tuned beyond what Mazda provides really makes a person wonder.

Anyways, back to the baseline. You stated there may be more dyno time this next week. I assume this is what the supercharger for tuning purposes?

Your work is invaluable -- great job buddy!

maikelnait

Hymee,

Thank you for sharing your results with us. The professionality of your approach towards stating the actual performance as well as increasing it is outstanding.

I hope you can soon give us the chance of getting the performance Mazda can't or just won't.

Cheers,

Miguel

guitarjunkie28

^ or isn't allowed to due to emissions regulations.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Does running pig rich produce less HC's than running lean and mean ?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

More HC running rich, more NOx running lean. You can't win either way.
Doesn't matter - big industry and large vehicles (trucks, tankers, etc) polute 1000:1 over personal vehicle traffic. Its all about taxes, so the emissions game is good - it helps keep gas prices down.
MBT is found around 12:1, so stoich just isn't gonna cut it.