Engine died today - 4 days after installing greddy turbo & interceptor-X- HELP!!
12-28-2005, 10:03 AM
#52
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that sucks man, when I blow a headgasket I can change it out in 3-4 hours with about a $100 in gaskets. Makes me nervous to mod my rx8 when I see these apex seals go that require a new engine.
12-28-2005, 11:47 AM
#55
Originally Posted by High Revving
does anyone know how much a new engine cost?
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Paul.
12-28-2005, 12:45 PM
#56
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Sorry to hear you've popped your Renesis. I know how you feel.
You can get a new engine for less than $5k.
The advantage of rebuilding your engine is it will be less expensive to port it since it will already be torn apart. While you're at it, you might want to consider the Racing Beat oil pump mod too.
You can get a new engine for less than $5k.
The advantage of rebuilding your engine is it will be less expensive to port it since it will already be torn apart. While you're at it, you might want to consider the Racing Beat oil pump mod too.
12-28-2005, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PUR NRG
It takes more than just time to tune the engine. Unfortunately it also takes more than "just" experience. When Scott programmed the Interceptor he did so with what he considered a conservative map that should work fine with 91 octane. Unfortunately CA 91 octane is not the same as other state's 91 octane--it's much worse. Consequently all Interceptors in CA need to pull something like 5 degrees of timing from Scott's original map just to prevent detonation. (I'm probably the guy who provided Scott with the CA dyno info.)
If you didn't have a BOV then I can easily see a boost spike.
If you didn't have a BOV then I can easily see a boost spike.
12-28-2005, 03:07 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by adrian-1
Yes, the stock ecu will crank and idle much better than with the interceptor connected. The interceptor runs a bit richer at idle and there's other issues of cold starts being worse with the interceptor.
I believe it has to do with how the stock ecu controls the spark plugs at idle .... it's different from how the interceptor controls them.
I believe it has to do with how the stock ecu controls the spark plugs at idle .... it's different from how the interceptor controls them.
12-29-2005, 02:32 PM
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Keep the turbo or back to NA
Now the reman is coming tomorrow. I am debating between the tubo & NA. I like the increased power & torque with the turbo, but don't like the slow throttle response, and mostly the fear of another blown engine.
By returning back to NA, eventhough it has less power & torque, it has the quick throttle response, plus no worry when flooring all the way until redline (I did that 80% of the time during the 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears before turbo).
Should I give it a try on the turbo one more time? If yes, which parts in the install/set up show I pay special attention to, should I use the factory spark plugs or the RX7 plugs recommended by Scott (Mazsport), and how should I break in the reman engine with the turbo but withour final tuning?
Any opinion is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Sammy
By returning back to NA, eventhough it has less power & torque, it has the quick throttle response, plus no worry when flooring all the way until redline (I did that 80% of the time during the 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears before turbo).
Should I give it a try on the turbo one more time? If yes, which parts in the install/set up show I pay special attention to, should I use the factory spark plugs or the RX7 plugs recommended by Scott (Mazsport), and how should I break in the reman engine with the turbo but withour final tuning?
Any opinion is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Sammy
12-29-2005, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Well, if you had slow throttle response and couldn't floor it, you had problems with your tuning.
If your general solution with tuning problems is to accept said problems, then N/A is probably a better choice for you.
If your general solution with tuning problems is to accept said problems, then N/A is probably a better choice for you.
I will not accept any problems regarding tuning, I was planning to get it tuned after the Christmas, but it died on Christmas. I am in Los Angeles area, any tuner recommended?
Last edited by sammytcl; 12-29-2005 at 02:56 PM.
12-29-2005, 03:09 PM
#63
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I'm really sorry to hear about your car... that's a damn shame 
I had my pressure plate give out about 2 weeks ago, that was a horror for me... can't imagine what a blown engine would do.
Good luck with your new parts!
I had my pressure plate give out about 2 weeks ago, that was a horror for me... can't imagine what a blown engine would do.
Good luck with your new parts!
12-29-2005, 03:36 PM
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It is likely your engine blew from improper tuning for California octane. You're A/F were probably okay, but most others in Ca needed to retard their timing by a few degrees to avoid ping due to poor gas quality. When you reinstall your turbo, after a break in period of easy driving - no boost, have your car tuned by a reputable rotary shop and you shouldn't have any problem. Worst case if your engine goes again you can always sell the turbo and Interceptor to pay for your third engine. That really sucks though!
12-29-2005, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rkostolni
It is likely your engine blew from improper tuning for California octane. You're A/F were probably okay, but most others in Ca needed to retard their timing by a few degrees to avoid ping due to poor gas quality. When you reinstall your turbo, after a break in period of easy driving - no boost, have your car tuned by a reputable rotary shop and you shouldn't have any problem. Worst case if your engine goes again you can always sell the turbo and Interceptor to pay for your third engine. That really sucks though!
I was already using the map tuned for CA 91 octane gas. I think I was using PUR NRG's map.
Should I use the RX7 plugs as recommended by Mazsport? Or keep the stock plugs for turbo set up?
Now I recall the fact that when I was in full throttle from 1st gear until 9K and then shift to 2nd gear, right after shifting to the 2nd gear the car had hesitation / unstable acceleration for about 1 second and then accelerated smoothly all the way to redline again. But it happened only 2-3 times so I didn't think of any potential problem about that. Any inputs?
12-29-2005, 04:40 PM
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The rx7 plugs are 1 heat range colder so they will help prevent detonation. You could also go 1 heat range colder on stock type plugs, but they foul more easily than the rx7 plugs which can be an issue when using the colder plug. I am using the Mazsport plugs and haven't had a problem with them.
Even if you were using a map tuned for 91 octane, each car is different as has been proven time and time again on here. There is no universal map. You really need to get your map tuned to your car.
Even if you were using a map tuned for 91 octane, each car is different as has been proven time and time again on here. There is no universal map. You really need to get your map tuned to your car.
12-29-2005, 05:39 PM
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When I took the car to my tuner, he asked me about the idle map on the interceptor.
On the idle map under 0 Hg, the reading is 0.05, which is almost zero. He asked if there is any specific reason for that setting? As he said that the map should be relatively gradual in readings for RX7 with microtech.
Any inputs?
On the idle map under 0 Hg, the reading is 0.05, which is almost zero. He asked if there is any specific reason for that setting? As he said that the map should be relatively gradual in readings for RX7 with microtech.
Any inputs?
12-29-2005, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sammytcl
I was already using the map tuned for CA 91 octane gas. I think I was using PUR NRG's map.
Should I use the RX7 plugs as recommended by Mazsport? Or keep the stock plugs for turbo set up?
Now I recall the fact that when I was in full throttle from 1st gear until 9K and then shift to 2nd gear, right after shifting to the 2nd gear the car had hesitation / unstable acceleration for about 1 second and then accelerated smoothly all the way to redline again. But it happened only 2-3 times so I didn't think of any potential problem about that. Any inputs?
Should I use the RX7 plugs as recommended by Mazsport? Or keep the stock plugs for turbo set up?
Now I recall the fact that when I was in full throttle from 1st gear until 9K and then shift to 2nd gear, right after shifting to the 2nd gear the car had hesitation / unstable acceleration for about 1 second and then accelerated smoothly all the way to redline again. But it happened only 2-3 times so I didn't think of any potential problem about that. Any inputs?
12-29-2005, 05:53 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by Moostafa29
Double check to see if that was PURNRG's map or mine. I had to retard my timing even more than his, because I running and able to maintain higher boost levels. And like Ryan was saying each car is different, so you'll have to tune no matter what. It could also be the case, that the gas in So.Cal is different from NorCal. You guys have just a tad more polution, so I wouldn't think that was out of the question. Also, both PURNRG and myself have RP supercat, and RB exhaust, is that your set up also?
I have B&B test pipe and HKS exhaust.
I actually wants to have the car tuned by more than 1 good turner.
My current tuner is an expert on Microtech but he works on RX7 only in the past. This is the 1st RX8 for him and he does road tunes.
I would like to find another reputable rotary tuner in South Cal with a dyno just to make sure it is tuned right.
Any recommendation on reputable rotary tuner in South Cal?
12-29-2005, 06:11 PM
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I wouldn't even waste your time going to multiple tuners, that's just a waste of time and money because all that will matter is who makes the final adjustments. Find a reputable tuner who has experience tuning rotary motors and has access to a dyno. You really need a dyno to do it right.
12-29-2005, 06:18 PM
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My nephew installed a Greddy on his RX8 and it also died after 2 days. He said it was using a lot of fuel during this time. I pulled the plugs and replaced them with the updated ones (156$ at Mazda) but it still wont start. There is also a severe battery drain on it. Now it is at a tuner to check it out - I hope it isnt blown.
Gunnar
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12-29-2005, 10:32 PM
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A map is only good from one car to another if both cars have the exact same setup. If the car te map was setup for had a stock exhaust but the other car had a midpipe and catback, the same map won't work and would probably blow up the car with the exhaust mods. Not saying this is what happened here just showing how these things work. The car with the exhaust mods would need more fuel and/or less timing to not have any problems.
On a map based system, you absolutely can not run the same map with different mods. You will blow things up. This was the issue with the 3rd gen RX-7's. All the time I see people asking for a map that would work with their boost level even though they have a variety of different setups. Then people send them one. It doesn't work that way. If you want to run a certain map, you MUST use the exact same setup as the car that the program was made for. This will be fine. If you have ANY differences from the base car, you risk detonation. Depending on what was done it may be bad or it may not. The map based standalone systems must be tuned according to each mod on the car. This is isn't something someone can guess at, make a map on the guess, and then send you to use. It won't work properly if you have any differences from that car. If the aftermarket ecu's ran off of mass air flow or air flow meter based systems, there wouldn't be near this issue. There is nothing wrong with map based systems and nothing wrong with Mazsports tuning. It works great on the car the map was intended for. The consumer must make sure that they have the same setup. If not, a little less agressive timing combined with a little more fuel can compensate but it will never be perfect as this s a guess on the safe side. It was a lack of understanding of these ecu systems that lead many to believe the rotary in the RX-7 is unreliable. Don't let that be the case with the RX-8. The problem is never the engine. It is always the tuning in relation to the mods on it. If your system differs from the car that the tuning was made for, you MUST do something to fix it.
On a map based system, you absolutely can not run the same map with different mods. You will blow things up. This was the issue with the 3rd gen RX-7's. All the time I see people asking for a map that would work with their boost level even though they have a variety of different setups. Then people send them one. It doesn't work that way. If you want to run a certain map, you MUST use the exact same setup as the car that the program was made for. This will be fine. If you have ANY differences from the base car, you risk detonation. Depending on what was done it may be bad or it may not. The map based standalone systems must be tuned according to each mod on the car. This is isn't something someone can guess at, make a map on the guess, and then send you to use. It won't work properly if you have any differences from that car. If the aftermarket ecu's ran off of mass air flow or air flow meter based systems, there wouldn't be near this issue. There is nothing wrong with map based systems and nothing wrong with Mazsports tuning. It works great on the car the map was intended for. The consumer must make sure that they have the same setup. If not, a little less agressive timing combined with a little more fuel can compensate but it will never be perfect as this s a guess on the safe side. It was a lack of understanding of these ecu systems that lead many to believe the rotary in the RX-7 is unreliable. Don't let that be the case with the RX-8. The problem is never the engine. It is always the tuning in relation to the mods on it. If your system differs from the car that the tuning was made for, you MUST do something to fix it.
12-29-2005, 10:39 PM
#73
Originally Posted by rotarygod
A map is only good from one car to another if both cars have the exact same setup.
Why? Who knows. Sensor variation, build variation, gremlins? I don't know.
Probably the same reason some Renesis motors have blown mysteriously while others have happily churned on through hours of seemingly endless detonation with no problems.
Plenty of people have installed the Greddy kit on otherwise stock drivetrains with the stock Greddy tune and had different results.
12-29-2005, 10:46 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
A map is only good from one car to another if both cars have the exact same setup. If the car te map was setup for had a stock exhaust but the other car had a midpipe and catback, the same map won't work and would probably blow up the car with the exhaust mods. Not saying this is what happened here just showing how these things work. The car with the exhaust mods would need more fuel and/or less timing to not have any problems.
On a map based system, you absolutely can not run the same map with different mods. You will blow things up. This was the issue with the 3rd gen RX-7's. All the time I see people asking for a map that would work with their boost level even though they have a variety of different setups. Then people send them one. It doesn't work that way. If you want to run a certain map, you MUST use the exact same setup as the car that the program was made for. This will be fine. If you have ANY differences from the base car, you risk detonation. Depending on what was done it may be bad or it may not. The map based standalone systems must be tuned according to each mod on the car. This is isn't something someone can guess at, make a map on the guess, and then send you to use. It won't work properly if you have any differences from that car. If the aftermarket ecu's ran off of mass air flow or air flow meter based systems, there wouldn't be near this issue. There is nothing wrong with map based systems and nothing wrong with Mazsports tuning. It works great on the car the map was intended for. The consumer must make sure that they have the same setup. If not, a little less agressive timing combined with a little more fuel can compensate but it will never be perfect as this s a guess on the safe side. It was a lack of understanding of these ecu systems that lead many to believe the rotary in the RX-7 is unreliable. Don't let that be the case with the RX-8. The problem is never the engine. It is always the tuning in relation to the mods on it. If your system differs from the car that the tuning was made for, you MUST do something to fix it.
On a map based system, you absolutely can not run the same map with different mods. You will blow things up. This was the issue with the 3rd gen RX-7's. All the time I see people asking for a map that would work with their boost level even though they have a variety of different setups. Then people send them one. It doesn't work that way. If you want to run a certain map, you MUST use the exact same setup as the car that the program was made for. This will be fine. If you have ANY differences from the base car, you risk detonation. Depending on what was done it may be bad or it may not. The map based standalone systems must be tuned according to each mod on the car. This is isn't something someone can guess at, make a map on the guess, and then send you to use. It won't work properly if you have any differences from that car. If the aftermarket ecu's ran off of mass air flow or air flow meter based systems, there wouldn't be near this issue. There is nothing wrong with map based systems and nothing wrong with Mazsports tuning. It works great on the car the map was intended for. The consumer must make sure that they have the same setup. If not, a little less agressive timing combined with a little more fuel can compensate but it will never be perfect as this s a guess on the safe side. It was a lack of understanding of these ecu systems that lead many to believe the rotary in the RX-7 is unreliable. Don't let that be the case with the RX-8. The problem is never the engine. It is always the tuning in relation to the mods on it. If your system differs from the car that the tuning was made for, you MUST do something to fix it.
Thanks rotarygod for your input. I will definitely get the car tuned for my current setup.
Regarding the tuning, does it matter if the tuner has experience on particular ecu such as the microtech in particular car such as the RX8, or it doesn't matter as all tunings are based on the same concept/theory?
I could not find a reputable tuner who is specialised in RX8-microtech setup. All I could find are tuners specialised in Power FC for Evo, RX7 or microtech for RX7.
Thanks again for all inputs.
12-29-2005, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sammytcl
Thanks rotarygod for your input. I will definitely get the car tuned for my current setup.
Regarding the tuning, does it matter if the tuner has experience on particular ecu such as the microtech in particular car such as the RX8, or it doesn't matter as all tunings are based on the same concept/theory?
I could not find a reputable tuner who is specialised in RX8-microtech setup. All I could find are tuners specialised in Power FC for Evo, RX7 or microtech for RX7.
Thanks again for all inputs.
Regarding the tuning, does it matter if the tuner has experience on particular ecu such as the microtech in particular car such as the RX8, or it doesn't matter as all tunings are based on the same concept/theory?
I could not find a reputable tuner who is specialised in RX8-microtech setup. All I could find are tuners specialised in Power FC for Evo, RX7 or microtech for RX7.
Thanks again for all inputs.