tommy12g

"because the higher the engine rpm the more air it uses and fan/compressor laws state that if HP is constant, then higher pressure = lower airflow, and higher airflow = lower pressure"

....Confused!!

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I hope the quality of knight changed... last I checked a few years ago to supercharger kit for a Probe GT either didn't fit, didn't work, or blew up the engine... :o

atsturbo

I was sure I had straightened all of this BS out on Probetalk, but I guess the stories are still floating around. All my PGT supercharger kits DID fit, DID work, and NONE--EVER--blew up an engine IF kept at a safe 7 psi like I recommended.

Now consider this: I built and sold over seven hundred V6 2.5 KL Probe/MX6 kits in total. How many people probably changed a pulley to raise the boost ABOVE what I shipped it with? If they did and toasted their engine, who would they blame? Themselves? Hardly--they blame anyone and everyone else.

As I have stated over and over again in my replies to other boards, the internet is great for many things. But is is also home to MANY false/untrue urban legends. I will bet a truckload this guy--pr0ber--has probably never SEEN, DRIVEN, or OWNED one of my kits. I will not respond to the part of this thread that questions my products quality--especially based on legends instead of first hand knowledge, etc. I simply dont have the time.
Suffice it to say--check out my name on Vortech Engineering's & Paxton Automotive's referral sites. Do you really believe that I would be on there if my designs were of such poor quality?

For the confused response--the ESC has a certain amount of hp the electric motors make. That is the constant in the fan laws. That means the 18hp will remain at 18hp, and if you try to run a larger engine then you will need more airflow--more airflow means less boost. Now if you have a smaller engine--say, 1.5 liter, you could run a LOT of boost provided the engine could handle the higher boost. This is because at 18hp, the airflow (CFM) will be little, so the boost can be high. I hope this clears that up for you.

Omicron

Nice response, atsturbo.

Now please tell us what we all want to hear (:D): that you have a complete kit ready to go for the RX-8 that costs under $2500. At that price, and in this market void, it WILL sell... and then you'll have all sorts of testimonials here about it.

atsturbo

I wont lie or make untrue promises. The ESC-550 is due to be released in 45 days. It is the proper size for a stock RX8, but I would be misleading anyone to say that I will have a KIT for the RX8 at that time--(I might tell my wife I NEED an RX8 for testing purposes, you see. She will then say she NEEDS a new KITCHEN to the tune of $25K) Time will tell.
We are now purchasing about four vehicles for kits, as the demand is already here for the F-150 4.2 V6, the Eclipse 4-cyl & V6, and some other imports like the Celica 2000+. After we build kits and make the Jigs & fixtures we can duplicate them as orders come in, and we sell the cars to buy the next highest demand vehicle.
As for pricing, we are looking at $2500 being the price for most of the bolt-in kits. The accessories will be done as group purchases for each type of car, so cost will be low enough to do so.
Also, just got a call from a MAJOR centrifugal supercharger manufacturer who wants to do a JV (joint venture) I will receive several units to adapt to my drive and we will have answers sooner than I planned for the centrifugal units. This will allow for better tuning for a wider field of vehicles, as by simply changing internal gear ratios and compressor wheel diameters we can make one style fit many more vehicles. They will receive several drive systems minus the supercharger itself to adapt for testing. I wont be able to divulge whom it is till we have it in writing, but it WILL happen. I had already built several similar units before they contacted me. By using an existing design it eliminates a TON of work for me.

JimW

I agree with Omicron, although this sounds like a boon for H.P. at a decent price, I think a lengthy testing procedure would be best. I want to see how durable the RX8s apex seals are. I take it the the exhaust, cat and plugs will have to be upgraded since the heat generated from Canzoomers stage 2 N/A setup will produce enough heat to kill these. I also think we need to see the computer codes cracked, to be sure of the correct air/fuel ratios. I live( Pemb Pines) About 45 min from the Redlands so if this works out, I'm there. believe me I want to see this work!

atsturbo

I make this offer to anyone who is qualified as a tech or good with electricity. I mean someone who has installed high end audio systems in their ride, or is a serious backyard tech or shop tech, or an electrician who understands how important quality installations are with a high current system like this one. If you are within a reasonable drive of Miami (California residents dont bother--he-he) and wish to come here I will make that owner of an RX8 this offer:

Take a ride with me in my car, so you KNOW it is for real. I will GIVE you a ESC-550 unit when they are available. Then, sign an agreement--it will be a promisary note for pictures, dyno runs, installation procedures, etc. This will allow me to show others how to do one and also open more doors for sales. Your cost will be less than $1000 even if you have to purchase a 200 amp alternator, get an Apex S-AFC, etc. I wont have to buy my wife a $25K kitchen, and YOU can have the exclusive on making the brackets and selling them to RX8 owners (for a reasonable markup of course) as well as installation diagrams.

As for the durability of apex seals, the ductile iron used is only harmed when shockwaves from detonation is incurred. At 5 psi that is almost impossible to do on 93+ octane fuel. You are only raising the dynamic compression ratio 1.67 points (3 psi boost = 1 dynamic CR point). The FMU will allow for simple WOT operation, and the S-AFC could be used to fatten up the fuel curve at the standard lien areas (tip-in, and lower rpm).

The rest of the system would not be affected at all. The ESC is only running for a short time, and the EGT's dont go up at all. Neither will the engine's durability be affected as long as 5 psi is maintained.

I believe one of you will be interested in doing this, and I hope it shows this board that I truly am interested in promoting my product.

1-1-04 will begin the new partial sponsorship program for those with any car model--specific year and engine--that has never had an ESC on it. A $475 discount will be allowed, and a $200 rebate for detailed pics and dyno runs will also be offered. I may limit this and exclude some cars (Yugo, Vega, etc :-)

Omicron

Very interesting, and a good offer. I'm glad I'm not close to Florida, or I'd be apt to take you up on it and blow my factory warranty. :D

Sooooo, any takers?

Genom

So, I live in Miami and would be interested in talking to you a bit.

PM me when ya see this and we'll talk.

JimW

O.K. it sounds like a good offer, can I call your cell# listed on your web site to discuss this further ?

atsturbo

call me at 786-243-2000--I will be open all fri and sat

Genom

OK. I'll be stopping by tomorrow afternoon. 4pm good?

atsturbo

yes, thats fine.

Omicron

Tom/atsturbo, have you seen this thread? You wouldn't happen to have a hand in this development, would you?

JimW

Good luck Genom, I have decided to wait after running from my wife. I am to worried about warranty issues as of now and I think I would be just as happy having Canzoomers Stage2 when it comes out. The only problem I need to know is if you can go back to the stock exhaust and cat if you have any aftermarket one installed, any of you guys know, Because 55 whp is enough to make me happy!

atsturbo

I looked at that site, and the electric turbo is Turbodyne's technology of a dc motor/generator in the bearing housing allowing for faster spoolup from a brushless 2000 watt motor. The 2.7hp motor will yield 1-2 psi instant boost al low rpm, raising the output a few hp and lowering boost transition. As soon as the turbo reaches speeds where the turbine takes over, the electric regeneration acts like a wastegate allowing the exhaust heat to generate electricity instead of going out the tailpipe through the wastegate. Great idea, but not mine.
Had Genom stop by today--I am psyched about the RX8. It is so perfectly set up for the ESC that I could not have designed a car better to receive one. I know other systems will come along, but this one will be done within two weeks of the ESC-550 being given to Genom (end of Feb).

Genom

Indeed. We both agreed that this car is almsot tailor made for this thing. It will be quite easy to install overall, even if we do all the mods we spoke about. Depending on the mounting of the unit it might be even easier to install/remove. We shall see!

JimW

Congrats Genom, and let us know how you like it and when you get it installed and Thanks Geoff for developing a part that will gives us more performance for a reasonable price. After talking to my wife she felt uncomfortable with the warranty issues and I dont think it would be easy to return the car back to stock form in case a warranty issue arises, I however will be interested when my warranty expires.

atsturbo

The ESC/filter swap to get it back to warranty (a battery relocation should not alter warranty in any way) and removing the ESC battery cell and cables would be a 2-3 hr simple swap in the worst case scenario. I have only seen one as simple installatiuon--the 2001 Ranger 4-cyl we did which was a 3 hour installation for the ESC and 4 hrs for the cables. The RX8 will be simpler.

JimW

So what does this mean? If I bring my car you will give me one as well in turn for testing, pictures,advertisement and dyno runs!

atsturbo

No--sorry. First come first serve. I will be offering some kind of special once I have the ESC-550 ready.

NashuaCLS

atsturbo,

I have a 2001 CLS and I it would beinteresting if you can sponsor my CLS to do a ESC-400 or ESC-550!

Let me know what you think.


Nashua.

atsturbo

I am assuming an Acura ? If so I can offer you a partial sponsorship. I believe someone already makes a turbo kit for those--I am not sure.

NashuaCLS

Tom,

Yes, It is an Acura 2001 CL Type-S.

There is only a SC kit from Comptech, MSRP is $4999 and you can get the SC Kit discunted as low as $3750. You still need a small battery and installation cost.

I think there is interested in your product. Maybe the ESC-400 is too small for the 260 3.2L V6 engine. With headers the CLS can be easily over 300 HP at the crank. For example my CLS 5-Auto dyno at 226-235 SAE WHP Stock is around 195-200 WHP.6-speed CLS can dyno at 240 WHP.


There is no Turbo Kit for the CLS. There was only one of a kind Custom Turbo. Application. Dyno was arond 325 WHP.

Nashua.

atsturbo

The ESC-550 would be a better fit. An auto trans 3.2 would be OK, but the 5-speed would see a boost drop at higher rpm while the auto trans would benefit from the low rpm power. The 550 will flow more air, so boost drop at redline will not occur. Send me your email so I can place you in my ESC-550 file to notify you whaen one is available. I will do a partial sponsorship with you so you can get one and install it for very little.