oldcarguy85

Hi there,
I've had my RX-8 for a few months now, and have decided it needs some *****.

I have a bnuch of questions regarding turbos on these motors.

First:

My car only has 6k miles so is still under warranty. Obviously a turbo will void the warranty. Do most kits require you to put a new hole in the oil pan, or is there a factory return that gets tied into? I'd like to be ble to put the car back to stock if need bed. If i need to buy a spare oil pan i will, i just have to know.

Second:

I'm undecided on what kit, but i'm definetely NOT going with the greddy. i want to run about 13psi of boost, and will definetely get someone's ignition upgrade. How many turbo owners have blown up their engine at this much boost, or caused serious damage. I'm concerned with reliablility, but will not settle for 6psi of boost.

Statistical data here is important, so how many turbo owners have blown up an engine?

How many of you have HEARD of a blow up engine at this kind of boost.

How expensive (parts only) is it to rebuild/replace one of these engines (ball park figures)

Third:

I'm between a couple of the larger turbo kits right now. I was originally leaning towards the esmeril kit. Seems like a decent deal at 7k with engine management. Also, i discovered the PTP kit today which has a nice price tage around $4500 without engine management. It seems like this may be the best deal, then just get the COBB access port to do the tuning. I've looked at the mazsport kit, but the prices are a little high if you ask me. Opinions?

Fourth:

Clutch - How long will it last? Should i be factoring in a clutch upgrade? I do not beat on my car, i shift it kindly, and i don't launch it.

Fifth:

This may be better suited for the racing forum, but has anyone run a turbo rx-8 in and Autocross as Street Mod? I imagine it would be fairly competitiive with enough suspension work. I'm currently running in B-Stock and will obviously kick myself up to Street Mod with a turbo.





I guess thats it for now. Sorry for the long thread. And please don't tell me to search, that is really annoying, and trying to search for stuff can take forever.

Thanks,
Jordan

oldcarguy85

Disregard the blown motors question, i'm currently reading the thread about this

gregs

iTrader: (7)

there are lots of turbo threads that will give you plenty of info, theres a comparasion dyno chart of most FI kits ill see if i can find it for you...about tapping the oil pan you get buy a greddy oil pan which already comes with a fitting for a oil return line

oldcarguy85

thanks for the info.

I probably wouldn't spend the money on a greddy oil pan seing as i have a 250amp mig welder and a miller dialarc-hf tig welder. Putting a fitting in the oil pan is no big deal. I'm assuming this means there is no factory hole that gets used?

gregs

iTrader: (7)

here is the thread i was talking about:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628

gregs

iTrader: (7)

no factory holes other than the drain plug

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Yeah you can use the factory hole - you just lose the drain plug.

oldcarguy85

well i guess thats kinda a non-issue. The only reason i ask is, if something happens and i want a warranty repair, going in to buy a new oil pan and then taking the car in for warranty work looks a little suspicious. I suppose its not a big deal.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Um - nevermind the ethics on that... I am going to go on a limb and say the oil pan will be the LEAST of your headaches if you decide to try to go back to stock for a repair.

oldcarguy85

hahah i know.. i would probably never do something like that. I also would probably put it back to stock if i ever sold it, as there is a very limited market for turbo rx-8's

GaMEChld

Esmeril Kit uses a drain to the oil pan's plug, whichh means you undo the return from the turbo when you are changing the oil. If you don't want to do that, you need to tap the oil pan.

I have the Esmeril Kit, I like it a lot.

I wouldn't get that kit if you have any plans to lower the car, as the wastegate hangs low enough as it is. I have no problem with it, but I am not lowering my car, so keep that in mind.

I wouldn't neccessarily rule out the greddy kit, check out the MM Upgrade to the greddy kit. You get the greddy kit, which is on the cheap side, then get the MM Upgrade kit to go with it, it takes out all the flaws of the greddy kit and has a meaty turbo on it that is capable of running with the best of them. Also, MM can supply you with a Cobb AP too, so thats nice.

Ignition Upgrade, I am pretty much 100% sure that BHR's ignition upgrade cannot be beaten.

Clutch, with the car pretty young in mileage, your stock clutch should last you a while longer. If you are going for max power though, you might get some slippage in the 350WHP range, and consequently might want to upgrade some components.

Getting the Cobb AP to work with the Esmeril Kit is hard to do and might not work at all, so keep that in mind. I use the Int-X for managing my Esmeril Kit.

The AP has some other nice features like being able to get an emissions sticker, so that might steer your turbo kit selection.

Esmeril recently released a dyno run making 400+WHP on pump gas, so that's something to consider if you are a power hungry monster, though I wouldn't count that as a daily driving tune. Just a fun benchmark.

But yeah, if I were you I'd be considering the MM/Greddy Upgrade or the Esmeril Racing Kit.

PM me if you have any questions about my setup.

oldcarguy85

thanks a lot for the info! that was incredibly helpful. i'll definetely look into the greddy kit a little further.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

I never considered the ability to go back to stock for warrantee repair as I think it would cost more in time/money to do that than to buy a reman engine from a vendor of my choosing.

GaMEChld

also, I don't know if looks matter at all to you, but the Esmeril Kit is a front mounted turbo setup which makes your engine bay look so very awesome, also makes it easy to get to the turbo in case you need to take it out or swap it or something. Pros and cons to all the various kits.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

13psi on Turbo A and 13psi on Turbo B can be totally different airflow masses. When talking different turbos and sizes, 13psi means nothing- it's just pressure, not flow.

The PTP kit and the Esmeril kit will not work with the COBB AccessPORT. The problem is there isn't a long enough straight section of 3.5" pipe for the MAF sensor which is critical for making the tune right.

Stock clutch is good to 300-320rwhp. Getting a stronger aftermarket one (along with a lightweight flywheel) isn't a bad idea.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

dont forget your cooling needs
there is some discussion about exhaust port pressures on the corner seals etc at over 11lbs of boost--check out the Pettit vendor site
most people do not rebuild--they buy another engine--fairly low mileage long blocks can be had from 2K to 2.5 K sometimes cheaper.)
Detonation is the rotary's enemy. It does not handle detonation well. We have heating issues, carbon issues, a 270degree flame front, exhaust ports constantly being used(no cool down) and a oem compression ratio of 10/1--starting to get the pic?
A lot--myself included-- now will not run this engine without a water meth system. It is cheap insurance--not bullet proof--but a good thing to have.
You will spend a good deal more than 4.5K by the time it is ready to drive.
But, boy after it is done--does it EVER change this car I could never go back.
OD

oldcarguy85

well,
i appreciate all the input. After hearing all this i may be shying away from the idea. I am a power hungry maniac at heart, and i know i will get bored at 330hp. It doesn't look like these motors can be pushed reliably past 330hp or so. I may just keep the car pretty much stock and continue to autocross it in B-Stock. Who knows. I dunno now i'm kidna undecided. It's going to be hard for me to justify screwing with a brand new car without faith that it will be reliable.

I also have a high 10 second car at home, so if i wanna go fast i'll go drive that, but i would just love to have the power AND the handling.

thanks again,
Jordan

GaMEChld

I dunno, if you do your homework, take precautions, get a good tune, you can make an FI setup last for a decent amount of time. The esmeril guys are daily driving their kit around doing 360whp and have tens of thousands of miles logged. You probably won't be getting 100's of thousands of miles, but if you premix, maybe upgrade the apex seals, do a rebuild halfway through the engines life. You might get a decent life out of it. It's all about how far you are willing to go. I for one will agree with what's said, the 8 is a whole new beast with the extra push of power added to its already awesome handling.

SlideWayz

fuggitabout the hole in the oil pan, it's the hole in your wallet you need to plan for!

pking1122

Which is more reliable, Greddy + MM Upgrade, or the Esmeril kit?

I just got my 8 a couple of weeks back, and am already plotting future mods. I was leaning toward the Ermeril kit, but the MM option seems like it could be safer. I would be looking for about 300-330rwhp.

mysql

Uhhh....

A turbo is a turbo. If you want to know which one has better hardware, research what components are included in each and decide.

pking1122

Wow, I seem to notice a sense of arrogance when a simple question is asked, in the appropriate forum, and thread for asking such a question might I add. All turbo kits, obviously, are not created equal. I was actually trying to get some feedback from people who have some experience on the issue without being sold. I have no problems searching, but if everytime a newb asks a question you already know the answer to, you tell them to search, this site may as well be a database as opposed to a forum.

Thanks again for your assistance.

mysql

Frankly, it's a dumb question. A turbo kit consists of hollow pipes and a spinning fan. The only thing you can really do is make sure the turbo is a quality unit. Where does reliability come in? Besides the greddy kit, most have only been out a few years at most. Since when can reliability of a vehicle component be judged in that time frame?

Anyway, asking you to at a minimum look into what hardware you'd be buying if you purchased a kit isn't a lot to ask. What's up with calling me arrogant for asking you to do your own due diligence? Or were you going to take random advice off the internet from some guy who might not know his thumb from his *** without checking further?

mysql

BTW, one kit from the next is not safer unless they come with different fuel management systems. Safe with FI is defined by the tune, not the hardware. If the FI hardware fails, you have an exhaust leak or some other thing. You end up with less or no boost. I guess the only exception to this that I can think of is if your wastegate doesn't open, then you might overboost. But it really comes down to the tune and how much heat is generated (from compressing the air).

GaMEChld

Wastegate is probably a good thing to look at like mysql mentions. That, and the turbo unit itself. For example, the original greddy turbo fails often because the stock design swamps it with oil and has poor drainage, then if you put an oil restrictor, it often overheats and fails as well. The greddy upgrade kit however is a quality unit that does not have this issue. The Esmeril unit seems pretty solid and the engineer vouches for its quality manufacturing, however some people argue against it because it is not branded. Both the Esmeril and Greddy Upgrade seem to be equal in my eyes in terms of reliable hardware. So really what you want to worry about is the management and the tuning. The engine and oem components will most likely fail long before the kit components do for either kit.