bse50

Never seen that as a problem, on na engines at least. www.hurleyrotary.com sells "different" spring designs though. I wish i could afford to try their swing seals just for the laughs

ASH8

I don't see any different "spring" design from Hurleys..a different Side Seal, yes, which is for 13B for the 7's, not Renesis 13B.

Side Seal Springs wearing out (even prematurely) is nothing new, good god Mazda kept the original design for 25 years.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

corner seals they advertise

ASH8

Got it...I had a senior moment!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

they didn't specify that for the Renesis either

bse50

They can make them, just like anything else. There's not much documentation about their products' longevity though.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Well if you are doing that the hopefully you were smart enough to also modify the rotos for deeper 13B apex seals. I don't see how those particularsprings retain their temper under extreme heat any more than any other spring. It also seems to me the spring positions should be further apart at the 120 deg positions in order to eliminate cocking. I have seen mixed results for some of their other stuff, but have no info on this setup.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i have seen some flatten corner seal springs in some fi engines (not just mine lol). It does make you wonder where it all starts.

RIP IT!

I tried those corner seals w/ the springs from Hurley in 2007. I wasn't impressed and changed them out after 4K miles. I still have that set here at the shop.

bse50

Glad to know.
The real upgrade would be a more undulated spring unlike the actual one imho.

ASH8

A real upgrade would be to use the OE ones...but hey, what do the Mazda (Japan) engineers really know?

rotarygod

I have always had a general rule when it comes to engine seals. If you can't afford Ianetti ceramic seals (apex), you should only use Mazda seals. In regards to the other engine seals Mazda all the way. That's just me though.

bse50

That's not always the case Ash! With this mentality there would be no advancements in technology.
A car engine is designed to hit the streets, that's why race engines are built following completely different criteria. Different stresses, loads, fatigue etc.
Would you take a set of OE apex seals over Iannetti's? Come on...
The problem with the OE design is, again in my opinion, the lack of a spring that properly distributes the forces. Is this a problem for a daily driven car also? Not that much.
An undulated spring (like the oil cut-off rings etc) would distribute the forces and dampen more evenly. It would be minimal since the corner seals have very little side space to move but still.

ASH8

WTF ...99.99% of all the advances to the Rotary has been done by Mazda!..!!

You go ahead G an use your idea's and opinions and come back after they fail, as they will, like those stupid corner seals above..

When it come to the ROTARY, OEM is the only way to go...in my opinion.
Fred is 100% correct.

Most of all the so called 'expert re-builders' which have been around for years offer all this expertise "after" Mazda has already modified those parts way before they even thought of it, and then these 'experts' broadcast it as 'their' breakthrough.

Almost all of the critical parts I am aware of they use OEM...or a OE supplier.

bse50

If you read my statement about that corner seal you wouldn't be saying so. I clearly said that i would like to try them for the laughs.
OE isn't always better as OE has to comply with a lot of cost savings and shortcuts that are mandated by big scale production.
Even on a 13b-msp there's a lot left on the table and that's just for casting simplicity and cost cutting. When properly built and blueprinted engines put down 5% more than their "off-the-shelf" counterparts (pre-cut side seals to match the rotor's code etc) you start wondering why. Then said engines also tend to last longer... again, why?
I'm with Fred about Iannetti seals.
Even our side seals spring have been improved over time and the previous generation ones (pre-rx8) may still be better under some circumstances.
My corner seal spring idea follows logics, however how much would it cost to only slightly improve something that would give close to no gains in a pretty trouble free area? Would you do it? surely not! Why would Mazda even care?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Might you guys be aware that all the OEMs not only sponsor race teams, partly for field research opportunities, but also because they consider the input from the racing teams they sponsor?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I suppose this will just ramble off into the usual off topic bs since nobody else has anything worthwhile to provide about a BP Renesis ....

ASH8

Bs.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

What might you be able to offer, based on your first-hand experiences?

Mawnee

Almost 200 posts deep and zero delivery on the "Results" suggested in the thread title

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

On this subject in particular I don't have any - yet. I do know people who have substantial competition experience with the earlier 13B BP engines and have shared their insight and input with me relative with what they have seen so far wrt the Renesis (and high praise for the quality of BDCs porting work), some direct discussions with Eric and what he had going on with it, some side discussions with BDC - enough to know BS when I smell it. Otherwise recently I have asked BDC for some input, reported why Eric may have gone quiet, and let myself get dragged into a completely unrelated seal discussion before recognizing this thread is going to crap.

Thank you for asking.


.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

didnt mean to redirect guys--sorry

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Feel free to take the lead and direct the conversation wherever you like, then. I will surely await with bated breath.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The person to take the lead is someone who can add value and content. I am attempting to keep it focused in that direction. Apparently you have a different motive.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

My motive is simply to place the responsibility in the hands of the one who is complaining, since none of the rest of us involved in this thread seem to be concerned with the direction the thread has taken.