Bridgeported engine results
09-22-2013, 05:27 PM
#357
Super Moderator
Frankly, going back to Philip in South Africa who was one of the first here to get his Renny 1 bridge-ported which all ended in fail after fail, first it had run for a while, then water leak (iron), then engine 'out an in' 3 or 4 times, 18 months later with no car, ended up selling his 8.
I recall saying to him then do not do it, but yeah, there has to be ground-breakers and I understand all that, however is there anyone who has actually successfully BP any RENESIS for real long term use?
09-23-2013, 08:31 AM
#359
WOW, real sorry to hear that....
Frankly, going back to Philip in South Africa who was one of the first here to get his Renny 1 bridge-ported which all ended in fail after fail, first it had run for a while, then water leak (iron), then engine 'out an in' 3 or 4 times, 18 months later with no car, ended up selling his 8.
I recall saying to him then do not do it, but yeah, there has to be ground-breakers and I understand all that, however is there anyone who has actually successfully BP any RENESIS for real long term use?
Frankly, going back to Philip in South Africa who was one of the first here to get his Renny 1 bridge-ported which all ended in fail after fail, first it had run for a while, then water leak (iron), then engine 'out an in' 3 or 4 times, 18 months later with no car, ended up selling his 8.
I recall saying to him then do not do it, but yeah, there has to be ground-breakers and I understand all that, however is there anyone who has actually successfully BP any RENESIS for real long term use?
Truthfully the port work looked very sound and everything in that aspect looked to be well done. The problem was more of a attention to detail thing. The side seals were cut wrong and the Irons had dammage around the water seals.
09-23-2013, 09:00 AM
#360
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What is the thought, the the workmanship is causing the engine to fail or is it the actual Bridgeporting that is causing the engine to fail because I'm seeing both here. Again I have a Bridgeport, speed 1 did my build and BDC did the bridge. The topic of bridges being useful or harmful has existed long before the renesis. People's opinions of bridge or porting in general usually stems from success or failure. So if the porting was done right that should not cause engine failure. What was the cause of Phil's engine failure? Hoss yours was side seals right? So again is it the porting or builder?
09-23-2013, 10:30 AM
#361
What is the thought, the the workmanship is causing the engine to fail or is it the actual Bridgeporting that is causing the engine to fail because I'm seeing both here. Again I have a Bridgeport, speed 1 did my build and BDC did the bridge. The topic of bridges being useful or harmful has existed long before the renesis. People's opinions of bridge or porting in general usually stems from success or failure. So if the porting was done right that should not cause engine failure. What was the cause of Phil's engine failure? Hoss yours was side seals right? So again is it the porting or builder?
In my case it was the engine build and not the bridge but I could not get any long term data as the engine was DOA. Ultimately it was the side seals being improperly cut that caused my compression loss and immediate engine failure. I could also see some damage on the irons from what i would guess to be a long term coolant leak that was not reported during the engine build.
I was warned by someone on here (you know who you are) to not let BDC do the build but that his porting work was good. When I look back at things i should have fallowed this persons advise.
Were your housings new when you sent them off to Brian?
09-23-2013, 10:38 AM
#362
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Well, the porter was the builder, Brian (BDC). The actual cause of the basically zero compression (yes, like no compression) could have been a few things but when he came to witness the tear down (reluctantly because it was at my house and my opinions of him were already well know) it was painfully obvious that he just doesn't know what he is doing. When my buddy busted out his step wear tool to check the irons Brian didn't even know what it was, and when we asked how he measured step wear we got some "oh, I have my own way of doing it" BS answer. I behaved because I wanted to get Hoss back on track but trust me, it took a **** ton of self control and it was very hard to be cordial and give Brian the benefit of the doubt.
Then we pulled the side seals, and they basically looked like they were ground down by a 3 year old on a concrete sidewalk. Then there was the mystery etching in the irons that was probably already there when he built it yet he said the irons were in great condition. This etching is thought to be from coolant. And to add insult to injury, the irons and other parts had been WPC treated to boot and they are now paperweights.
Some thought the porting might have contributed to the loss of compression but that was just guessing and with the side seal cut the way they were it seemed pretty obvious even to those of us that have no real experience rebuilding rotaries.
Brian could have just owned up and refunded Hoss-05 a good portion or all of the money, but in typical fashion, he did nothing other than offer to do the work again (with parts costs going to Hoss of course) and some port work IIRC. Sadly I was not surprised though, his bad reputation was already known. Once a scumbag, always a scumbag.
Then we pulled the side seals, and they basically looked like they were ground down by a 3 year old on a concrete sidewalk. Then there was the mystery etching in the irons that was probably already there when he built it yet he said the irons were in great condition. This etching is thought to be from coolant. And to add insult to injury, the irons and other parts had been WPC treated to boot and they are now paperweights.
Some thought the porting might have contributed to the loss of compression but that was just guessing and with the side seal cut the way they were it seemed pretty obvious even to those of us that have no real experience rebuilding rotaries.
Brian could have just owned up and refunded Hoss-05 a good portion or all of the money, but in typical fashion, he did nothing other than offer to do the work again (with parts costs going to Hoss of course) and some port work IIRC. Sadly I was not surprised though, his bad reputation was already known. Once a scumbag, always a scumbag.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 09-23-2013 at 10:40 AM.
09-23-2013, 11:23 AM
#363
All of that aside, I think the point which we both agree on is that BDC has no business anywhere near rotary engines, and that bridgeporting the MSP yields nothing useful.
09-23-2013, 12:42 PM
#364
I would guess that a bridgeport would infact yeld positive results. I have yet to see anyone give it an honest effort. I think a mild bridge port with new housings, OEM seals, a compatent builder and someone who can tune the ECU properly would net positive power gains. Now for how long is anyones guess. I thought at one point I had it in the bag, I was mistaken.
Last edited by hoss -05; 09-23-2013 at 01:04 PM.
09-23-2013, 01:19 PM
#365
I would guess that a bridgeport would infact yeld positive results. I have yet to see anyone give it an honest effort. I think a mild bridge port with new housings, OEM seals, a compatent builder and someone who can tune the ECU properly would net positive power gains. Now for how long is anyones guess. I thought at one point I had it in the bag, I was mistaken.
09-23-2013, 02:21 PM
#366
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In my case it was the engine build and not the bridge but I could not get any long term data as the engine was DOA. Ultimately it was the side seals being improperly cut that caused my compression loss and immediate engine failure. I could also see some damage on the irons from what i would guess to be a long term coolant leak that was not reported during the engine build.
I was warned by someone on here (you know who you are) to not let BDC do the build but that his porting work was good. When I look back at things i should have fallowed this persons advise.
Were your housings new when you sent them off to Brian?
I was warned by someone on here (you know who you are) to not let BDC do the build but that his porting work was good. When I look back at things i should have fallowed this persons advise.
Were your housings new when you sent them off to Brian?
As far as the performance gains they are there but like all mods is it worth it? Every individual has to choose his own build. Adam at REC has told me in Puerto Rico, they were doing Bridgeport before the US guys and he had built a couple even before I asked him for advice on my build. They are not cheap but Dave did say the rotors that came in were first rate impressive and ready to drop in.
09-23-2013, 02:29 PM
#367
I agree to an extent. In theory, it should make more power, sure. I figured by now, companies like Pineapple, Racing Beat, Pettit, etc would have at least tried aggressively porting our engines. If they have and were unsuccessful at achieving any usable power gains, I could understand them not even bothering to mention or offer that service. I want there to be potential for this engine in NA form, I really do, but at the end of the day, it just can't really be improved much more. Its best if us NA blokes accept that fact and focus more on suspension/brakes/drivetrain/chassis improvements, focus on becoming better drivers, and just enjoy the car for what it is rather than faulting it for what it isn't. Meanwhile, you FI Guys can duke it out with the actually fast cars lol.
Whats in it for a thrid party vendor to pave the way? Yes they may sell one or two but they will just be copied in the end and never make back there R&D costs. The kind of person or shop that would spend the money for this most likely would not waste the money when they can go FI and make much more power.
The bottom line is if we want to see results its really up to us the end users to put forth the effort and really step up to the plate.
09-23-2013, 02:35 PM
#368
My housings were not new, REC did the EDM to full FD height and they also did a full dress on the rotors. Includes balancing, side seals hand cut, springs and seals. I used their Rx7 specialist seals, BDC did the Bridgeport and Dave speed1 assembled. I basically had everyone do the stuff they were best at but this took more money and much more time. While going through the process I wished I had one place do it because of the cost and time but maybe I did it right? Time will tell.
As far as the performance gains they are there but like all mods is it worth it? Every individual has to choose his own build. Adam at REC has told me in Puerto Rico, they were doing Bridgeport before the US guys and he had built a couple even before I asked him for advice on my build. They are not cheap but Dave did say the rotors that came in were first rate impressive and ready to drop in.
As far as the performance gains they are there but like all mods is it worth it? Every individual has to choose his own build. Adam at REC has told me in Puerto Rico, they were doing Bridgeport before the US guys and he had built a couple even before I asked him for advice on my build. They are not cheap but Dave did say the rotors that came in were first rate impressive and ready to drop in.
Nice cant wait to see how it turns out~!
09-23-2013, 04:44 PM
#369
My housings were not new, REC did the EDM to full FD height and they also did a full dress on the rotors. Includes balancing, side seals hand cut, springs and seals. I used their Rx7 specialist seals, BDC did the Bridgeport and Dave speed1 assembled. I basically had everyone do the stuff they were best at but this took more money and much more time. While going through the process I wished I had one place do it because of the cost and time but maybe I did it right? Time will tell.
As far as the performance gains they are there but like all mods is it worth it? Every individual has to choose his own build. Adam at REC has told me in Puerto Rico, they were doing Bridgeport before the US guys and he had built a couple even before I asked him for advice on my build. They are not cheap but Dave did say the rotors that came in were first rate impressive and ready to drop in.
As far as the performance gains they are there but like all mods is it worth it? Every individual has to choose his own build. Adam at REC has told me in Puerto Rico, they were doing Bridgeport before the US guys and he had built a couple even before I asked him for advice on my build. They are not cheap but Dave did say the rotors that came in were first rate impressive and ready to drop in.
WTB Engine Dyno numbers... And if not possible then I suppose chassis dyno numbers...
09-23-2013, 05:16 PM
#370
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I'm looking forward to power tuning too! Unfortunately the front of the car got hit and it's at the body shop. it will be there for about 30 days because I have lots of fiberglass. I will post results when I can.
09-23-2013, 05:38 PM
#371
Whats in it for a thrid party vendor to pave the way? Yes they may sell one or two but they will just be copied in the end and never make back there R&D costs. The kind of person or shop that would spend the money for this most likely would not waste the money when they can go FI and make much more power.
The bottom line is if we want to see results its really up to us the end users to put forth the effort and really step up to the plate.
The bottom line is if we want to see results its really up to us the end users to put forth the effort and really step up to the plate.
09-23-2013, 09:17 PM
#372
Super Moderator
Well, the porter was the builder, Brian (BDC). The actual cause of the basically zero compression (yes, like no compression) could have been a few things but when he came to witness the tear down (reluctantly because it was at my house and my opinions of him were already well know) it was painfully obvious that he just doesn't know what he is doing. When my buddy busted out his step wear tool to check the irons Brian didn't even know what it was, and when we asked how he measured step wear we got some "oh, I have my own way of doing it" BS answer. I behaved because I wanted to get Hoss back on track but trust me, it took a **** ton of self control and it was very hard to be cordial and give Brian the benefit of the doubt.
Then we pulled the side seals, and they basically looked like they were ground down by a 3 year old on a concrete sidewalk. Then there was the mystery etching in the irons that was probably already there when he built it yet he said the irons were in great condition. This etching is thought to be from coolant. And to add insult to injury, the irons and other parts had been WPC treated to boot and they are now paperweights.
Some thought the porting might have contributed to the loss of compression but that was just guessing and with the side seal cut the way they were it seemed pretty obvious even to those of us that have no real experience rebuilding rotaries.
Brian could have just owned up and refunded Hoss-05 a good portion or all of the money, but in typical fashion, he did nothing other than offer to do the work again (with parts costs going to Hoss of course) and some port work IIRC. Sadly I was not surprised though, his bad reputation was already known. Once a scumbag, always a scumbag.
Then we pulled the side seals, and they basically looked like they were ground down by a 3 year old on a concrete sidewalk. Then there was the mystery etching in the irons that was probably already there when he built it yet he said the irons were in great condition. This etching is thought to be from coolant. And to add insult to injury, the irons and other parts had been WPC treated to boot and they are now paperweights.
Some thought the porting might have contributed to the loss of compression but that was just guessing and with the side seal cut the way they were it seemed pretty obvious even to those of us that have no real experience rebuilding rotaries.
Brian could have just owned up and refunded Hoss-05 a good portion or all of the money, but in typical fashion, he did nothing other than offer to do the work again (with parts costs going to Hoss of course) and some port work IIRC. Sadly I was not surprised though, his bad reputation was already known. Once a scumbag, always a scumbag.
09-23-2013, 09:58 PM
#373
Ahem...
I dont remember who did his bridge but he was less than excited about his dyno numbers. I believe he pulled 215 whp.
It honestly wont be...
My engine is bridge ported. It may have added 5 HP. These cars typically dyno between 190~210 WHP as a "built" NA. You would be better off placing your dollar bills in the toilet and watching them spin down the drain than to really spend the time with an orthodox NA Renesis build. Unorthodox being more expensive than a turbo, or engine swap.
My engine is bridge ported. It may have added 5 HP. These cars typically dyno between 190~210 WHP as a "built" NA. You would be better off placing your dollar bills in the toilet and watching them spin down the drain than to really spend the time with an orthodox NA Renesis build. Unorthodox being more expensive than a turbo, or engine swap.
09-23-2013, 10:13 PM
#374
^it was BDC wasn't it?